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  • Realistic Options Regarding Andrea Bargnani

    Dude looked spent as a baller last year. Same old issues about defensive positioning, no nose for the ball, etc, plus the added bonus of being a terrible, terrible shooter. At $11 & $12 mil for the upcoming 2 seasons, his value is at an all time low and he's one of the worst contracts in the game. What are the options for shipping him out?

    1) Amnesty.

    Widely reported we're using this on Linus. Barg's $23 mil remaining certainly outweighs Linus' $4.6. Pulling the trigger on Andrea would give us more cap room, but also increase the money we're spending on literally no contrabutions. THis option seems more likely if BC is gone because Andrea is his baby to a certain degree.

    2) Sit Tight.

    We could try to revive him as an off-the-bench scorer, if only his shot would start falling. Maybe we could get a decent 6th man season out of him and deal him as an expiring next year (like Jose this past season).

    3) Trade.

    As one of the league's worst deals, we're not getting much (if anything) back. BC basically begged for offers this February and got ziltch. There is zero chance we get a first rounder for him. REPEAT: ZERO. We're only going to get a deal done if we take an even more horrific contract back (examples: Gerald Wallace, Amare), we trade a blue-chipper along with Andrea (JV), or we catch a team desperate team in a unique situation and hope they make a dumb move. I don't want Wallace or Amare. I want to keep JV. So who might make a silly trade with us? I suggested that we look at the Kings can ask for Chuck Hayes and Jimmer back. People here thought i was trolling and I'm not sure why. Are we really getting more than that back for our deadweight? Eric Gordon is begging to get out of New Orleans. David Lee is looking like a piece that no longer fits in GState. But those 2 guys are WAAAAY more valuable to AB at this stage.

    http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=ctezfpe

    http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=blaho5v

    http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=cnhgtkq

    http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=cagx8ls

    http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=bdccz8t


    Do you guys think any of these trades are realistic and intriguing? (Again, I HIGHLY doubt we're getting a pick back for him, so let's avoid tossing any into our hypothetical deals)

    Would you rather amnesty him?

    Do you want to roll into next year with him?

    Comment


    • Anything but sit tight.

      Somebody should add a poll to this thread.

      Comment


      • Bargnanni has value (even if little) can be traded for something the Raps can use its on BC not to over value him though. Amnesty is for none other than Klieza and sitting tight is not an option Bargnani's value is what it is It cant get any lower and him playing a couple of games into the next season wont make it any better.

        Comment


        • 1) I think our first priority with the amnesty clause is Kleiza. If that isn't possible, then I'd be more than willing to use it on Bargs. The guy is almost impossible to trade. The only reason any other team would take him at this point would be to help him revive his game. I'd look at another bottom-feeder team as a franchise looking to make use of him.

          2) Fairly obvious anyways, but this is the worst thing that could happen. Even if a miracle does indeed occur, and he finds his game to some degree, I think it's been made clear he holds NO PART in this team's future. So why give him minutes that could be used to develop other players, specifically Ross. It's a lose-lose situation for us. Whether he plays or he sits on the bench, he's a detriment.

          3) Although we won't get much back, this is definitely the best situation. As for your trades, they're OK.

          - Switching David Lee for Amir is a huge improvement offensively, but we regress exponentially on the defensive end. I also feel like Lee and JV would clash a lot, since their games are fairly similar. I could see the pair working if JV continues to develop his mid-range game; Lee is much more of a back-to-the-basket player and his shooting form is awful, so I don't foresee any improvement in that area.

          - We're definitely better off with DeRozan than with Eric Gordon, and throwing Bargs in there just makes the trade look worse. We all know at the beginning of the season, Gordon didn't want New Orleans to match the Clippers' offer, and now that he's there he wants out. Who's to say he doesn't do that in a city such as Toronto? Not to mention all of the injury problems...

          - Amar'e also has a history of injury problems, but if he can return to form, I can see this trade working. Then again, if Fields ever returns to rookie form, I can see this trade not working. Lots of "what-if's" associated with this one.

          - Chuck Hayes is kind of useless even as a 3rd/4th big on this team, especially since Acy's actually showing some sort of potential. As for Jimmer, he can play both guard positions, but as a young guy he'll be fighting for the same minutes T. Ross will be.

          - Gerald Wallace would be kind of useless on this team, with Rudy, AA and Fields all playing the 3. Don't know why Brooklyn would do this trade either, unless their looking for someone like MarShon Brooks to step up and start, which isn't likely.

          Overall, I do believe trade would be the best decision we could make with him, or if worst comes to worst, straight up amnesty. It's just finding the right trade that matters.
          Twitter - @thekid_it

          Comment


          • NoBan wrote: View Post
            Dude looked spent as a baller last year. Same old issues about defensive positioning, no nose for the ball, etc, plus the added bonus of being a terrible, terrible shooter. At $11 & $12 mil for the upcoming 2 seasons, his value is at an all time low and he's one of the worst contracts in the game. What are the options for shipping him out?

            1) Amnesty.

            Widely reported we're using this on Linus. Barg's $23 mil remaining certainly outweighs Linus' $4.6. Pulling the trigger on Andrea would give us more cap room, but also increase the money we're spending on literally no contrabutions. THis option seems more likely if BC is gone because Andrea is his baby to a certain degree.

            2) Sit Tight.

            We could try to revive him as an off-the-bench scorer, if only his shot would start falling. Maybe we could get a decent 6th man season out of him and deal him as an expiring next year (like Jose this past season).

            3) Trade.

            As one of the league's worst deals, we're not getting much (if anything) back. BC basically begged for offers this February and got ziltch. There is zero chance we get a first rounder for him. REPEAT: ZERO. We're only going to get a deal done if we take an even more horrific contract back (examples: Gerald Wallace, Amare), we trade a blue-chipper along with Andrea (JV), or we catch a team desperate team in a unique situation and hope they make a dumb move. I don't want Wallace or Amare. I want to keep JV. So who might make a silly trade with us? I suggested that we look at the Kings can ask for Chuck Hayes and Jimmer back. People here thought i was trolling and I'm not sure why. Are we really getting more than that back for our deadweight? Eric Gordon is begging to get out of New Orleans. David Lee is looking like a piece that no longer fits in GState. But those 2 guys are WAAAAY more valuable to AB at this stage.

            http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=ctezfpe

            http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=blaho5v

            http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=cnhgtkq

            http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=cagx8ls

            http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=bdccz8t


            Do you guys think any of these trades are realistic and intriguing? (Again, I HIGHLY doubt we're getting a pick back for him, so let's avoid tossing any into our hypothetical deals)

            Would you rather amnesty him?

            Do you want to roll into next year with him?
            I think the Sacto deal (the 4th one) is the only realistic one.

            -It's not worth getting Lee if we lose Amir. The gap between them isn't big enough to give up Amir in such a deal, as if Lee puts the team over the hump. Our D would get worse, and we'd still be lacking a good 3rd big.

            -It's not worth getting Gordon...at all, soft-ass prima donna jump shooting non-defending useless sack of crap money eating bastard. Even with all DeMar's lacking areas, I'd take him over Gordon every time. Everything about that guy's attitude since he's been in the league has rubbed me the wrong way and I think he's the type of player a team that plans to be bad (or not very good) keeps around.

            -Stoudemire is NYK's Bargnani, but gets paid twice as much. Landry Fields might be more useful than either one even with a broken shot. NY wins this deal of losers.

            -I think the Wallace trade makes some sense from BKL's perspective, but Wallace isnot a PF, and Gay is our starting SF. It is not a good deal for Toronto.

            -So back to the Sacto deal. They could use a scoring threat like Bargs (in theory, obviously), especially in the frontcourt to offset their guard heavy rotation. Offensively, he fits well as a spacer next to Cousins and Evans, is a btter threat than Jimmer, and unlike Jimmer, won't have to fight guards for minutes. Hayes is basically just an extra body. Wouldn't expect too much from him. Jimmer could slide into a normal backup PG role. I don't think it's a great deal, but it is realistic. Neither team saves money and both try to address some roster concerns (though neither ideally).

            Bottom line....keep hoping that there are a lot more realistic scenarios that we can't think of. I wouldn't amnesty him under any circumstance. I don't necessarily believe there's a good trade to be had, but at worst, I think you can trade him for other crappy contracts. For instance, I disagree with what you say about no team being willing to give up a pick for him. A team that doesn't expect to suck may try to shed a bad contract for Bargs, and be willing to trade a pick that they don't think will help them. A young team like GSW for example. Biedrins/Jefferson + a lottery protected 1st rder for Bargnani....If Landry declines his option and leaves, I can see them considering that. Toronto would get a pick and shed a year of salary commitment. GSW gets a bench scorer, and some size/insurance at the bigs.

            I really want Scola, and would be willing to take Beasley, but the presence of Frye and both Morris twins makes that so hard to see happening, though it also makes them unpredictable. PHX will suck next year and clearly is stocking assets to trade, the questions being when and for what? I wish Bargs played a weaker position...instead he plays maybe the strongest position in the league. Still, I see PHX as a situation to keep an eye one.

            Basically, I think they'd have a chance at getting a pick from a team that doesn't expect to have a high pick and has their own dead weight to shed...but this is also contingent on them having some expectation that Bargnani will even be the Bargnani of any other season but this last one. And as for players, I think they'll likely only get a useful player from a bad team looking to shake things up but not concerned about it being a total failure.

            And oh yeah, in the absolute worst case a trade of any kind cna't be found...keep him. See if he does anything to help his value as the 3rd big off the bench. If he doesn't, he's shown that while he may have a negative impact on the court, at worst, he's a neutral impact when he's not playing. I don't think Bargs is a team "cancer" or anything. Just an underachiever who's been doing it too long in Toronto for him to still be around.
            Last edited by white men can't jump; Thu May 9, 2013, 05:03 PM.

            Comment


            • Almost 0% chance he gets amnestied if BC is back. I think it's a bad idea anyway.

              I don't know about getting anything back of value though. The only thing they should think about is getting rid of him without adding years of salary. Something like Ty Thomas, Ben Gordon, or Steve Nash (yeah I went there).
              Eh follow my TWITTER!

              Comment


              • (1) Deal with Golden State, not worth it consider Amir in 2-3 years will hit his prime and possibly a better David Lee nonetheless unless we deal Bargs straight up for Lee but i doubt the Warriors would do it without getting either Amir or DeRozan from us.

                (2) No to Eric Gordon, the guy is washed up, he won't get back to his Clippers form and will likely sign with a playoff contending team as a backup SG, possibly the Celtics, Pacers or Knicks.

                (3) No to Amare Stoudamire, the guy is done for in this league, his knee is the problem, he won't become a productive PF without the likes of a Steve Nash unless we get Jose back but I don't see Stoudamire as a solution and possibly will remain as a Knick or sign with a team with championship-ring potential.

                (4) I do like the Kings trade but i was hoping for J.Thompsons as opposed to Chuck Hayes. Hayes is useless and we have Acy although getting Jimmer is a plus since he can be our solution at the backup PG spot

                (5) Getting G.Wallace would be stupid unless he can come off the bench as our 6th man, he can be a productive back up SF for us but i don't think Wallace would take that role.

                Personally, I see Bargs most likely to be dealt to the following teams.

                (1) Toronto send Bargs + Fields + Lucas III
                Chicago send Boozer + N.Robinson

                (2) Toronto send Bargs + Fields
                Indiana send T.Hansborough + DJ Augustin

                (3) Toronto send Bargs
                Charlotte send B.Gordon

                (4) Toronto send Bargs + Ross + Lucas III
                Utah send Millsap + E.Watsons

                (5) Toronto send Bargs + Fields
                Suns send Scola + Beasly

                (6) Toronto send Bargs + Ross
                Lakers send P.Gasol

                (7) Toronto send Bargs + Fields
                Washington send E.Okafor + Future 1st rounder
                Last edited by tenforthewin; Thu May 9, 2013, 05:34 PM.

                Comment


                • tenforthewin wrote: View Post
                  (1) Deal with Golden State, not worth it consider Amir in 2-3 years will hit his prime and possibly a better David Lee nonetheless unless we deal Bargs straight up for Lee but i doubt the Warriors would do it without getting either Amir or DeRozan from us.

                  (2) No to Eric Gordon, the guy is washed up, he won't get back to his Clippers form and will likely sign with a playoff contending team as a backup SG, possibly the Celtics, Pacers or Knicks.

                  (3) No to Amare Stoudamire, the guy is done for in this league, his knee is the problem, he won't become a productive PF without the likes of a Steve Nash unless we get Jose back but I don't see Stoudamire as a solution and possibly will remain as a Knick or sign with a team with championship-ring potential.

                  (4) I do like the Kings trade but i was hoping for J.Thompsons as opposed to Chuck Hayes. Hayes is useless and we have Acy although getting Jimmer is a plus since he can be our solution at the backup PG spot

                  (5) Getting G.Wallace would be stupid unless he can come off the bench as our 6th man, he can be a productive back up SF for us but i don't think Wallace would take that role.

                  Personally, I see Bargs most likely to be dealt to the following teams.

                  (1) Toronto send Bargs + Fields + Lucas III
                  Chicago send Boozer + N.Robinson

                  (2) Toronto send Bargs + Fields
                  Indiana send T.Hansborough + DJ Augustin

                  (3) Toronto send Bargs
                  Charlotte send B.Gordon

                  (4) Toronto send Bargs + Ross + Lucas III
                  Utah send Millsap + E.Watsons

                  (5) Toronto send Bargs + Fields
                  Suns send Scola + Beasly

                  (6) Toronto send Bargs + Ross
                  Lakers send P.Gasol

                  (7) Toronto send Bargs + Fields
                  Washington send E.Okafor + Future 1st rounder
                  Oh you just pounced at the opportunity didnt ya?

                  Comment


                  • Who Linus?

                    Comment


                    • tenforthewin wrote: View Post
                      (1) Deal with Golden State, not worth it consider Amir in 2-3 years will hit his prime and possibly a better David Lee nonetheless unless we deal Bargs straight up for Lee but i doubt the Warriors would do it without getting either Amir or DeRozan from us.

                      (2) No to Eric Gordon, the guy is washed up, he won't get back to his Clippers form and will likely sign with a playoff contending team as a backup SG, possibly the Celtics, Pacers or Knicks.

                      (3) No to Amare Stoudamire, the guy is done for in this league, his knee is the problem, he won't become a productive PF without the likes of a Steve Nash unless we get Jose back but I don't see Stoudamire as a solution and possibly will remain as a Knick or sign with a team with championship-ring potential.

                      (4) I do like the Kings trade but i was hoping for J.Thompsons as opposed to Chuck Hayes. Hayes is useless and we have Acy although getting Jimmer is a plus since he can be our solution at the backup PG spot

                      (5) Getting G.Wallace would be stupid unless he can come off the bench as our 6th man, he can be a productive back up SF for us but i don't think Wallace would take that role.

                      Personally, I see Bargs most likely to be dealt to the following teams.

                      (1) Toronto send Bargs + Fields + Lucas III
                      Chicago send Boozer + N.Robinson

                      (2) Toronto send Bargs + Fields
                      Indiana send T.Hansborough + DJ Augustin

                      (3) Toronto send Bargs
                      Charlotte send B.Gordon

                      (4) Toronto send Bargs + Ross + Lucas III
                      Utah send Millsap + E.Watsons

                      (5) Toronto send Bargs + Fields
                      Suns send Scola + Beasly

                      (6) Toronto send Bargs + Ross
                      Lakers send P.Gasol

                      (7) Toronto send Bargs + Fields
                      Washington send E.Okafor + Future 1st rounder
                      Why the insistence on throwing Fields in every trade then causing the Raptors to send out MORE money than coming back. Fields at this point in time is NOT an asset.


                      Oh yeah and....

                      THE CBA?
                      WHAT CBA?
                      F*CK DA CBA!

                      Comment


                      • tenforthewin wrote: View Post
                        (1) Deal with Golden State, not worth it consider Amir in 2-3 years will hit his prime and possibly a better David Lee nonetheless unless we deal Bargs straight up for Lee but i doubt the Warriors would do it without getting either Amir or DeRozan from us.

                        (2) No to Eric Gordon, the guy is washed up, he won't get back to his Clippers form and will likely sign with a playoff contending team as a backup SG, possibly the Celtics, Pacers or Knicks.

                        (3) No to Amare Stoudamire, the guy is done for in this league, his knee is the problem, he won't become a productive PF without the likes of a Steve Nash unless we get Jose back but I don't see Stoudamire as a solution and possibly will remain as a Knick or sign with a team with championship-ring potential.

                        (4) I do like the Kings trade but i was hoping for J.Thompsons as opposed to Chuck Hayes. Hayes is useless and we have Acy although getting Jimmer is a plus since he can be our solution at the backup PG spot

                        (5) Getting G.Wallace would be stupid unless he can come off the bench as our 6th man, he can be a productive back up SF for us but i don't think Wallace would take that role.

                        Personally, I see Bargs most likely to be dealt to the following teams.

                        (1) Toronto send Bargs + Fields + Lucas III
                        Chicago send Boozer + N.Robinson

                        (2) Toronto send Bargs + Fields
                        Indiana send T.Hansborough + DJ Augustin

                        (3) Toronto send Bargs
                        Charlotte send B.Gordon

                        (4) Toronto send Bargs + Ross + Lucas III
                        Utah send Millsap + E.Watsons

                        (5) Toronto send Bargs + Fields
                        Suns send Scola + Beasly

                        (6) Toronto send Bargs + Ross
                        Lakers send P.Gasol

                        (7) Toronto send Bargs + Fields
                        Washington send E.Okafor + Future 1st rounder
                        It hurts my brain so much....I can't take it...owwwwwww

                        Comment


                        • The team I always end up looking at in trade scenarios for Bargs is Phoenix. They have Frye, and Scola. Either would be decent 3rd (stretch) bigs (Scola could compete with Amir for starter minutes). The problem is the Raps would have to take Beasley in a trade. Even though he's only $6 Mill a year turning him into a movable piece would take PR magic.

                          The other team I've looked at is Mini. With Derrick Williams improving during the last half of the season and Love being hurt trading AK47 for Andrea actually makes some sense for them.

                          Of the trades you suggested the 2 that piqued my interest were the Amare trade and the Kings trade. The Kings trade is sensible. The Raps get 2 smaller contracts which potentially can be moved. In Jimmer they get a SG who can play backup the 1 and sure up the guard rotation. Hayes is just trade ballast. If Hayes can be moved to a third team even better.

                          The Amare trade would be a straight 'Hail Mary'. The media in Toronto would eat it up. Expectations would skyrocket for no good reason, but it would be a fun ride.

                          One last thing, I find it highly unlikely that any team would want to add an additional player to a Bargnani deal. For instance, a trade including Demar may work but when the season starts his cap hit is around $8 Mill. That would mean they traded $13-15 Mill to take on $19 Mill. Not going to happen. The best assets the Raps had to add to a Bargnani trade were cap space, and Ed Davis both of which were traded away for Rudy Gay. Unless someone wants Terrance Ross, Acy, or that kid stashed away in Europe no one will take on Bargnani's and another player's contract.

                          EDIT:

                          Just saw 10forthewin's genius... awesome. At least two of those trades can be done without adding additional players. Okafor for Bargnani straight should work. So should Millsap straight (that would have to be a sign and trade) Why on earth would the team we would be hypothetically trading with add assets and take additional bad contracts? Dude. You rule.
                          Last edited by blackjitsu; Thu May 9, 2013, 06:14 PM.

                          Comment


                          • tenforthebrainfart
                            Official Pope of the Raptors sponsored by MLSE.

                            Comment


                            • I voted for amnesty because a trade will bring a poopoo platter in return.

                              Comment


                              • 1) Amnesty is not an option. It does not provide any benefit except for sending him packing. While that is a great benefit in and of itself, dollars over the salary cap are valuable and impossible to replace without an exception. Given current roster and money owed, you need to get anything of value for him - and while I am definitely still all about #tradeBargnani I think something of value can come back.

                                2) Sit tight is not an option. We've been sitting tight for 7 years and how has that worked out?

                                3) Any realistic trade should be for a dreadful expiring contract (Jefferson, Biedrins, Gordon, etc.); with any team that thinks they can tap his potential (I laughed typing that); for a contract as bad as or worse with another asset attached such as a draft pick or prospect (Tyrus Thomas? *shudder* Beasley? *shriek*); or with a really cheap team making a financial move (Da Bulls).

                                Comment

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