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  • Tim W. wrote: View Post
    They overvalue scoring and undervalue defense and rebounding because the former seems to require more skill. It doesn't, but it looks a lot prettier.
    I think it is also because of the way that the game is played and scored.

    If each team got one point for an opposing teams turnover, two points for a missed shot and three for a steal but nothing for putting the ball through the rim than fans would value defense more than offense.

    In those circumstances every defensive stop whether it was a turnover, steal or missed shot would add to the team's point total.

    So in effect the game would be reversed. Teams would attempt to score to keep their opponents from adding points. Teams would work harder to stop their opponents from scoring because they would earn points form stopping their opponent from scoring.

    Fans would then take a lot more notice of defense.
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    • Buddahfan wrote: View Post
      I think it is also because of the way that the game is played and scored.

      If each team got one point for an opposing teams turnover, two points for a missed shot and three for a steal but nothing for putting the ball through the rim than fans would value defense more than offense.

      In those circumstances every defensive stop whether it was a turnover, steal or missed shot would add to the team's point total.

      So in effect the game would be reversed. Teams would attempt to score to keep their opponents from adding points. Teams would work harder to stop their opponents from scoring because they would earn points form stopping their opponent from scoring.

      Fans would then take a lot more notice of defense.
      u need help...

      THERE IS VALUE in defense, and just cuz you dont see it, doesnt mean everyone doesnt.

      ask celtic fans how much they value the efforts of a tony allen, pj brown, or james posey...

      those guys are always more valued than a nate robinson or marquis daniels...

      real fans know and you who said you watched a lot of piston games should know it too.

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      • vinnie_paz wrote: View Post
        perk is the starting centre when he comes back.
        As much as I'd like to agree with you, Doc Rivers said after the Shaq presser that when Perkins returns from injury, his starting job is not guaranteed. He will have to play for it.
        Joshua Priemski
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        • Oh jeeze. Vinnie, don't argue with Buddah.
          Joshua Priemski
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          • Introcollapse wrote: View Post
            As much as I'd like to agree with you, Doc Rivers said after the Shaq presser that when Perkins returns from injury, his starting job is not guaranteed. He will have to play for it.
            he just says that to keep shaq interested in the games when its mid january...

            i meant when the whole o'neal experiment is done and perk is back to 100%.

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            • Introcollapse wrote: View Post
              Oh jeeze. Vinnie, don't argue with Buddah.
              got that tupac mentality... i hit em up !

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              • Buddahfan wrote: View Post
                would you trade Bargnani for Javale McGee?
                McGee looked great at the end of last season, but he's really a complete unknown. Who knows what he'll end up doing? He's a great shotblocker, but his defensive IQ is not high. McGee could end up being a very good player, but I simply haven't watched enough of him to know.

                Blasterfi9 wrote: View Post
                Yes he's a year older... but, still it would technically make them younger overall -_-. Also considering they're cnetres with the o'neals, they have good defence if not as good D with Jermaine who also plays better offence then Perkins. If i was boston i totally do that deal in a second perks for Bargs. It can really bolster their bench by a mile, and on top of that no way Raptors do the trade. Kendricks is out for like half the season from early reports, you honeslty think the raptors do this trade for damged goods and end up with wat Anderson or Alabi starting at centre, and the only postion we won't suck at completely become out biggest weakness from playing undersized or unskilled players?
                Even with the O'Neals, Boston needs Perkins if it wants to win a Championship. Shaq is pretty much done, and may actually have a detrimental effect on Boston. And Shaq is one of the few big men in the NBA that doesn't make Jermaine look like a creaky old man. If either of those two are back next season, I'd be surprised. Well, I'd be surprised if they are back and in the rotation.

                Bargnani doesn't make that team better. He'll hurt them on the boards and on the defensive end. Besides, you think that Bargnani is going to get extended minutes on a team that is so focused on defense? You think Doc Rivers is going to turn a blind eye to Bargnani's inability to play team defense? With Pierce, ROndo, Allen and Garnett, they only thing Bargnani would be doing is spotting up at the three point line, waiting for someone to throw him the ball. You really think Boston is going to trade one of the best defensive centers in the league for a spot up shooter. Basically, he would be filling Brian Scalabrine's roll. And he played less than 10 mpg.

                Boston doesn't need him and would be a very poor fit.

                As for the Raptors, who cares who they have to play at center for half the season? Are they really vying for anything? Hell, they could put start Amir and Davis.
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                • vinnie_paz wrote: View Post
                  do you think boston would risk losing a center who has proven to be one of the best defenders at that position in the league for bargnani ?

                  is boston more likely to win a title with perkins defending dwight, noah, and gasol or are they more likely to win with bargs ?
                  Yes i think they are willing to trade for bargnani when it especially helps in the short term that team aint gettin younger tey need to gel and they need to do it now, makes no sense for them if a deal like this pops up to sit around till middle of the season when they get Perks back as well as two other centres, and all three that have very similar play styles to one another.

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                  • vinnie_paz wrote: View Post
                    do you think boston would risk losing a center who has proven to be one of the best defenders at that position in the league for bargnani ?

                    is boston more likely to win a title with perkins defending dwight, noah, and gasol or are they more likely to win with bargs ?
                    Yes i totally think they would, they dont care bout long term, its all about short term. That team aint gettin older and if they want to win it all, they gotta do it soon. trading for bargs would helps immensely short term, and on top of that Perks comes back in the middle of the season that screws up w.e chemsitry they had, and on top of that they end up with three centres all who play the same style. Wats the point in the that, if Bargs was tossed over to them for damaged goods in Perkins whose gonna be really rusty when he gets back they trade no question for healthy bargs for the time being. Of course raps would again nvr do this trade

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                    • Blasterfi9 wrote: View Post
                      Yes i totally think they would, they dont care bout long term, its all about short term. That team aint gettin older and if they want to win it all, they gotta do it soon. trading for bargs would helps immensely short term, and on top of that Perks comes back in the middle of the season that screws up w.e chemsitry they had, and on top of that they end up with three centres all who play the same style. Wats the point in the that, if Bargs was tossed over to them for damaged goods in Perkins whose gonna be really rusty when he gets back they trade no question for healthy bargs for the time being. Of course raps would again nvr do this trade
                      couldnt disagree more....

                      you dont trade a defensive center who is young and has proven himself by guarding some of the best bigs in the league for a 1 dimensional big who cant rebound or defend.

                      it is much harder to find a good defensive big then a guy like bargnani who cant defend anyone or rebound

                      clearly there's no convincing you so lets just agree to disagree...

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                      • still confused as to why these guys keep hammering the raps, bargnani, BC. last time i checked this is a raptors forum. maybe its hate the raptors forum. care to fill me in admins?

                        um, points win championships, defense helps win championships. how can the opponents rebound if a team keeps making shots? the key is to play solid, decent defense and make sure you always score the basketball. last time i checked, the NBA counts points, whoever has the most points wins the game. maybe in your island teams win with rebounds and blocks but not here in our normal world.

                        "also when you really understand basketball, you know rebounding and defense are as important if not more important than scoring..." - wow. id like to see artest, battier, perkins, garnett and rondo win a championship against durant, james, anthony, bryant and wade.
                        Last edited by TheGloveinRapsUniform; Wed Sep 1, 2010, 01:03 AM.

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                        • vinnie_paz wrote: View Post
                          couldnt disagree more....

                          you dont trade a defensive center who is young and has proven himself by guarding some of the best bigs in the league for a 1 dimensional big who cant rebound or defend.

                          it is much harder to find a good defensive big then a guy like bargnani who cant defend anyone or rebound

                          clearly there's no convincing you so lets just agree to disagree...
                          i think youre 100% correct. perkins is indeed one of kind. if he's so proven and can keep up with the best bigs in the league, how come he gets 4mil a year and dhow 16mil? why isnt perkins the highest paid player in boston?? and bargs gets 10mil for scoring 16pts and getting 6 rebs a game with 1.4 blks while perkins gets 10/7/1.7???? this is an outrage! the raptors should get perkins, pay him as much as dhow and lets get the parade started coz we got perkins and defense wins championships! take that miami heat! they got a combined 80 points at least with their big three but hey, who needs points when you got kendrick perkins!!!!

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                          • tbihis wrote: View Post
                            still confused as to why these guys keep hammering the raps, bargnani, BC. last time i checked this is a raptors forum. maybe its hate the raptors forum. care to fill me in admins?
                            It's a Raptor forum, which means discussion of all things Raptors. It doesn't mean fawning over the Raptors, even if you don't think it's deserved.

                            tbihis wrote: View Post
                            um, points win championships, defense helps win championships. how can the opponents rebound if a team keeps making shots? the key is to play solid, decent defense and make sure you always score the basketball. last time i checked, the NBA counts points, whoever has the most points wins the game. maybe in your island teams win with rebounds and blocks but not here in our normal world.
                            Well, if you look at the past NBA Champions, every single one of them were good defensive teams with at least one All-Defensive player on it. Meanwhile, great scoring teams over the years usually fail to reach the Finals. It's not the team that scores the most points that wins. It's the team that stops the other team from scoring more points than them that wins.

                            tbihis wrote: View Post
                            "also when you really understand basketball, you know rebounding and defense are as important if not more important than scoring..." - wow. id like to see artest, battier, perkins, garnett and rondo win a championship against durant, james, anthony, bryant and wade.
                            Well, considering James, Bryant and Wade all have been All-Defensive 1st or 2nd team members, that second team is going to be pretty damn good at defense, too.

                            How about Rondo, Kobe, Gerald Wallace, LeBron and Dwight Howard (The All-Defensive first team this past season) against Durant, Carmelo, Monta Ellis, Dirk and Stoudemire (all top ten in scoring). Which team do YOU think is going to win?
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                            • tbihis wrote: View Post
                              i think youre 100% correct. perkins is indeed one of kind. if he's so proven and can keep up with the best bigs in the league, how come he gets 4mil a year and dhow 16mil? why isnt perkins the highest paid player in boston?? and bargs gets 10mil for scoring 16pts and getting 6 rebs a game with 1.4 blks while perkins gets 10/7/1.7???? this is an outrage! the raptors should get perkins, pay him as much as dhow and lets get the parade started coz we got perkins and defense wins championships! take that miami heat! they got a combined 80 points at least with their big three but hey, who needs points when you got kendrick perkins!!!!
                              By that logic, Calderon is as good a player as Rondo, because they make about the same.
                              Read my blog, The Picket Fence. Guaranteed to make you think or your money back!
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                              • tbihis wrote: View Post
                                um, points win championships, defense helps win championships. how can the opponents rebound if a team keeps making shots? the key is to play solid, decent defense and make sure you always score the basketball. last time i checked, the NBA counts points, whoever has the most points wins the game. maybe in your island teams win with rebounds and blocks but not here in our normal world.
                                hahah even an all-star team misses some shots

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