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  • Pizzaman wrote: View Post
    Bargnani is not going anywhere in case you and the other brainwaves here have not yet figured that out, so you may want to forget about Davis and try figuring out who should be playing next to Roberto Luongo!
    I don't know who Roberto Luongo is. He sounds like a baseball player. Bargnani may or may not be going anywhere, and since none of us actually make decisions for the Raptors I prefer to imagine what would ultimately best for the franchise, and not try and pretend I have any input and compromise on a player who will be extremely difficult to win with.
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    • JoePanini wrote: View Post
      Bargnani's offense is better than Bosh. Bargnani has more moves, can score from 23-5 feet. He hits the mid range extremely consistently now. The only edge Bosh has is deep in the post, but that will soon change. As we are seeing, he is posting on people like Horford. I think Bargnani is a better offensive player, has a lot more in his repertoire.
      I think you are smoking something this morning, LA time.

      Bosh has a better mid-range game. It is not even close. Bosh is also a better free throw shooter and gets to the foul line more.
      Avatar: Riverboat Coffee House 134 Yorkville Ave. billboard of upcoming entertainers - Circa 1960s

      Memories some so sweet, indeed

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      “As a captain, I played furiously. I drew a lot of fouls, but I brought everything I had to every practice and to every game. I left everything on the court because I simply wanted the team to win”
      Quote from well known personality who led their high school team to a state championship.

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      • Bargs will kill D West and Okafor today, beleeeedat

        Comment


        • No he didnt kill anyone today....unfortunately.
          As much as I like Bargs,I have to say that this was one of his worst games of the season.The whole game he just kept shooting and missing.Even his defence and rebounding were bad,as Okafor totally destroyed him...I Dont see a reason to play him for 42 minutes when he is playing this bad.


          I hope this was a night off for him and he can bounce back against the Spurs.

          Comment


          • core2man wrote: View Post
            No he didnt kill anyone today....unfortunately.
            As much as I like Bargs,I have to say that this was one of his worst games of the season.The whole game he just kept shooting and missing.Even his defence and rebounding were bad,as Okafor totally destroyed him...I Dont see a reason to play him for 42 minutes when he is playing this bad.


            I hope this was a night off for him and he can bounce back against the Spurs.
            Bargnani too often has problems playing good games after relatively long or long flights.

            Some people travel better than others. Bargnani has trouble with his sleep pattern after long flights.

            Think I am making this up. He tweeted as much a couple of months ago.


            Seriously
            Avatar: Riverboat Coffee House 134 Yorkville Ave. billboard of upcoming entertainers - Circa 1960s

            Memories some so sweet, indeed

            Larger Photo of the avatar



            “As a captain, I played furiously. I drew a lot of fouls, but I brought everything I had to every practice and to every game. I left everything on the court because I simply wanted the team to win”
            Quote from well known personality who led their high school team to a state championship.

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            • Buddahfan wrote: View Post
              Bargnani too often has problems playing good games after relatively long or long flights.

              Some people travel better than others. Bargnani has trouble with his sleep pattern after long flights.

              Think I am making this up. He tweeted as much a couple of months ago.


              Seriously
              If he's actually used that excuse in the past, (which I've never seen, but I'm taking your word on this one) that may be the first time I've EVER heard of an individual trying to pass off bad games due too 'sleep pattern' ... its the NBA. Travel is as much a part of the game as dribbling the ball.
              Love Bargs, but thats weak.
              If Kobe, or DWade, or even Chris Bosh said that, you think the media would let it slide?

              (And flying from Washington to New Orleans is probably like 3 hours. Max. If he can't handle that he wouldn't be able to play a single roadtrip for a Western Conference team.)
              Last edited by Joey; Mon Jan 17, 2011, 07:17 PM.

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              • joey_hesketh wrote: View Post
                If he's actually used that excuse in the past, (which I've never seen, but I'm taking your word on this one) that may be the first time I've EVER heard of an individual trying to pass off bad games due too 'sleep pattern' ... its the NBA. Travel is as much a part of the game as dribbling the ball.
                Love Bargs, but thats weak.
                If Kobe, or DWade, or even Chris Bosh said that, you think the media would let it slide?

                (And flying from Washington to New Orleans is probably like 3 hours. Max. If he can't handle that he wouldn't be able to play a single roadtrip for a Western Conference team.)
                He tweeted a couple of months ago actually I think it may have been three months ago while on a flight that he was taking a sleep medication. He actually tweeted it in Italian but I translated it. In any case I checked out the medication and one of its problems is that it messes up a person's sleep pattern.

                I have no idea if he still takes it in order to sleep on flights or not.

                I have no idea if it is messing up his sleep patterns.

                However, I have no other explanation for such erratic performances from him.

                They are so extreme.
                Avatar: Riverboat Coffee House 134 Yorkville Ave. billboard of upcoming entertainers - Circa 1960s

                Memories some so sweet, indeed

                Larger Photo of the avatar



                “As a captain, I played furiously. I drew a lot of fouls, but I brought everything I had to every practice and to every game. I left everything on the court because I simply wanted the team to win”
                Quote from well known personality who led their high school team to a state championship.

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                • Buddahfan wrote: View Post
                  He tweeted a couple of months ago actually I think it may have been three months ago while on a flight that he was taking a sleep medication. He actually tweeted it in Italian but I translated it. In any case I checked out the medication and one of its problems is that it messes up a person's sleep pattern.

                  I have no idea if he still takes it in order to sleep on flights or not.

                  I have no idea if it is messing up his sleep patterns.

                  However, I have no other explanation for such erratic performances from him.

                  They are so extreme.
                  I think half the team was on sleeping pills yesterday. Foul Factory Amir and Demar were their usual lacklustre selves as well.

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                  • after yesterday maybe we call him queen bargs the centerfold guy
                    Avatar: Riverboat Coffee House 134 Yorkville Ave. billboard of upcoming entertainers - Circa 1960s

                    Memories some so sweet, indeed

                    Larger Photo of the avatar



                    “As a captain, I played furiously. I drew a lot of fouls, but I brought everything I had to every practice and to every game. I left everything on the court because I simply wanted the team to win”
                    Quote from well known personality who led their high school team to a state championship.

                    Comment


                    • Buddahfan wrote: View Post
                      after yesterday maybe we call him queen bargs the centerfold guy
                      what happened, did you and Tim W become a team or something?

                      Comment


                      • Comparing Bargs to the Top Scorers in the League

                        I posted this is another (dying) forum, I just want more opinion's, so here goes:

                        So I got bored, and decided to see how Bargs truly stacks up with the rest of the league in terms of scoring. So I hit up Basketball Reference and sorted out all current players this season that have played more 900 minutes or more, and have a USG% of 24.5 or higher.

                        And we get this (right-click->View Image):


                        39 players, from 25 different teams. Somebody's definitely has to carry the offensive load, and our guy is Bargnani.

                        Bargnani's on the low end of efficiency (26 out of 39 players), and on the high end in usage. He's 12th in usage rate this year, and is still trending upwards a bit. Now that's really odd, with DD turning the corner. But maybe DD is just taking touches away from Kleiza, rather than Bargs.

                        Defensively (Drtg), Bargs is the 3rd worst player on the list. Beasley (who's far younger and thereby has a good chance of improving drastically), Jamison, and Mo Williams, are the only players ranked worse...And they play for the Cavs...

                        The average age of the players on this list is 26.48.

                        The closest players from this list would have to be Beasley and Ellis. Ellis is just about as bad as Bargnani on defense, but the Warriors are full of weak defenders, probably worsening things for him. But he actually scores efficiently though. Beasley looks like a Bargnani clone, but because he play SF rather than center, he doesn't hurt the defense as much I would assume. And Beasley's younger, and young players aren't really efficient until they get older.

                        Bargs is approaching middle-age in basketball years. His offensive rating isn't that bad though, especially considering that he's been forced to take far more possessions then normally takes, compared to the rest of the year. It's currently at 105, reaching a respectable 108 isn't that far off, when he has a lot of room for improvement.

                        Bargs is 18th for his total rebound rate, but the list is mostly composed of guards. When you filter down to just forwards, he's 14th...out of 18. The players ranking lower than him a Beasley, Durant, Granger, and S-Jax.

                        So what I got from this is that Bargs is on the cusp of becoming an elite scorer, if he works hard. He's defense and rebounding are still terrible though. It only confirms the thoughts flying around that we should move him, or re-imagine his role, barring huge improvement.

                        Comment


                        • Bargnani is the classic good scorer on a bad team. While he puts up good scoring numbers, he only does so because he takes so many shots. And he only takes so many shots because there really isn't anyone else on the team that is an above average scorer, at this point. He's not an efficient scorer, and despite being in the top 15 in scoring, he's way down there in Offensive Rating. And needless his defensive rating is very poor.

                          I constantly get blasted as a Bargnani hater, but apparently those people that blast me fail to realize there's actually a very good reason I'm so critical of him. He's simply not as good as many people seem to think he is and it seems pretty obvious to me that the team is never going to win with him playing a key role.

                          Bargnani is very much like Reggie Evans. Given the right circumstances, Evans can come close to leading the league in rebounding. He goes after every rebound like Glen Beck goes after left wing conspiracies. But he also does very little else. He isn't a very good defender and he can't score, so on a good team, he simply wouldn't get the minutes.

                          On a good team, Bargnani's scoring would simply not be as valuable as it is to a bad team like the Raptors, and because he doesn't do anything else well, he'd struggle to get consistent minutes. A team like the Spurs has plenty of players who can score much more efficiently that Bargnani, and none that are the liability that he is on the defensive end. Same goes for a team like Boston, or Oklahoma, or the Lakers, or any of the other contenders out there.

                          Michael Beasley is just as good a scorer that Bargnani is, but there's a very good reason that the only team that agreed to take him was the T-Wolves.

                          Bad teams have players like Bargnani, Beasley and Monta Ellis leading their team in scoring, but the only reason the have the stats they do is BECAUSE they're on bad teams.
                          Read my blog, The Picket Fence. Guaranteed to make you think or your money back!
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                          • Tim W. wrote: View Post
                            Bargnani is the classic good scorer on a bad team. While he puts up good scoring numbers, he only does so because he takes so many shots. And he only takes so many shots because there really isn't anyone else on the team that is an above average scorer, at this point. He's not an efficient scorer, and despite being in the top 15 in scoring, he's way down there in Offensive Rating. And needless his defensive rating is very poor.

                            I constantly get blasted as a Bargnani hater, but apparently those people that blast me fail to realize there's actually a very good reason I'm so critical of him. He's simply not as good as many people seem to think he is and it seems pretty obvious to me that the team is never going to win with him playing a key role.

                            Bargnani is very much like Reggie Evans. Given the right circumstances, Evans can come close to leading the league in rebounding. He goes after every rebound like Glen Beck goes after left wing conspiracies. But he also does very little else. He isn't a very good defender and he can't score, so on a good team, he simply wouldn't get the minutes.

                            On a good team, Bargnani's scoring would simply not be as valuable as it is to a bad team like the Raptors, and because he doesn't do anything else well, he'd struggle to get consistent minutes. A team like the Spurs has plenty of players who can score much more efficiently that Bargnani, and none that are the liability that he is on the defensive end. Same goes for a team like Boston, or Oklahoma, or the Lakers, or any of the other contenders out there.

                            Michael Beasley is just as good a scorer that Bargnani is, but there's a very good reason that the only team that agreed to take him was the T-Wolves.

                            Bad teams have players like Bargnani, Beasley and Monta Ellis leading their team in scoring, but the only reason the have the stats they do is BECAUSE they're on bad teams.
                            Well said, I've been saying that for a long time but keep getting blasted on this forum. I guess Leo Rautins and company believe Bargnani can be an allstar in the future and pass this on to loyal Raptor fans who don't watch the rest of the NBA. I'm not sure if they understand that the home broadcast network cannot say anything negative about a player's or team's potential. In LA, "Kobe is one of the best players of all time", in Miami "Joel Anthony resembles Alonzo Mourning", and no Boston Celtic player have ever committed a foul in the history of the NBA according to Tommy. If you watch games live you will get a much better feel of how good a player is without the broadcast team hyping up role players. Or at least press mute.

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                            • Tim W. wrote: View Post
                              Bargnani is the classic good scorer on a bad team. While he puts up good scoring numbers, he only does so because he takes so many shots. And he only takes so many shots because there really isn't anyone else on the team that is an above average scorer, at this point. He's not an efficient scorer, and despite being in the top 15 in scoring, he's way down there in Offensive Rating. And needless his defensive rating is very poor.

                              I constantly get blasted as a Bargnani hater, but apparently those people that blast me fail to realize there's actually a very good reason I'm so critical of him. He's simply not as good as many people seem to think he is and it seems pretty obvious to me that the team is never going to win with him playing a key role.

                              Bargnani is very much like Reggie Evans. Given the right circumstances, Evans can come close to leading the league in rebounding. He goes after every rebound like Glen Beck goes after left wing conspiracies. But he also does very little else. He isn't a very good defender and he can't score, so on a good team, he simply wouldn't get the minutes.

                              On a good team, Bargnani's scoring would simply not be as valuable as it is to a bad team like the Raptors, and because he doesn't do anything else well, he'd struggle to get consistent minutes. A team like the Spurs has plenty of players who can score much more efficiently that Bargnani, and none that are the liability that he is on the defensive end. Same goes for a team like Boston, or Oklahoma, or the Lakers, or any of the other contenders out there.

                              Michael Beasley is just as good a scorer that Bargnani is, but there's a very good reason that the only team that agreed to take him was the T-Wolves.

                              Bad teams have players like Bargnani, Beasley and Monta Ellis leading their team in scoring, but the only reason the have the stats they do is BECAUSE they're on bad teams.
                              Interesting argument. It's tough to say definitively though. Was KG only good cuz he was in Minnesota? Or Ray Ray in Seattle? KG is a good defender mind you, but Ray Ray is an offensive minded player. What about Pierce? He was a classic high scorer in Boston , surrounded by crap, and is still just as good now, surrounded by talent.

                              What about Bosh? Was he a classic high scorer on a bad team? His #'s in Miami paint an interesting picture if anything.

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                              • Bargnani has two serious problems on offense before he can become an elite level scorer.

                                1. His offense disappears in way too many games, especially given the rest of the Raptors starting lineup.
                                2. He still takes way too many bad shots many of which lead to easy run-outs by the opponents

                                In 9 of his 35 games or over 25% he has scored under 15 points

                                Dirk by comparison has been under 16 points in a game only 2 times in 29 games in which he has played more than 15 minutes
                                Avatar: Riverboat Coffee House 134 Yorkville Ave. billboard of upcoming entertainers - Circa 1960s

                                Memories some so sweet, indeed

                                Larger Photo of the avatar



                                “As a captain, I played furiously. I drew a lot of fouls, but I brought everything I had to every practice and to every game. I left everything on the court because I simply wanted the team to win”
                                Quote from well known personality who led their high school team to a state championship.

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