Don't get me wrong I too question Dre's desire and heart. When the tools are there and not being used you have to wonder whether the love of the game is there. BUT all this talk about everything being handed to him gets blown out of per-portion all the time. Is it his fault he was drafter number 1? Is it his fault he was asked to play out of position?
Think about it from the other side of a second. Imagine coming into a league where your a match up offensive nightmare power forward who can stretch the defense. Problem is the Raptors already have a great scoring power forward who was the franchise corner stone. So rather then focus on your strengths and working on your weakness's (getting a big man coach with some experience or reputation) being forced to effected the game with your weakness's and not use your strengths as a player with a similar mold is ahead of you in seniority and at the time talent.
I'm still willing to give the guy a chance as the return is worth the risk. For as much as Dre has let down or aggravated the franchise/fan base the franchise put him in a situation that was almost destined to fail. He wants to be here (don't know why with the way the media has treated him) and doesn't complain (the report this summer about role is not worth mentioning) I don't see why everyone wants to run our arguable best player out of town.
He has very much dissapointed me on the offensive end in terms of clutch scoring. Id be totally open to moving him for the right piece. But to suggest he belongs on the scrap heap is just ridiculus.
here From a contract vs. production/efficiency Bargnani looks remarkably unremarkable.
But I stand by the don't trade him for nothing. try and get value. however, I think that as the season goes on his value goes down down down down down. But I will apologize if I am wrong wrong wrong.
"They're going to have to rename the whole conference after us: Toronto Raptors 2014-2015 Northern Conference Champions" ~ ezzbee Dec. 2014
"I guess I got a little carried away there" ~ ezzbee Apr. 2015
"We only have one rule on this team. What is that rule? E.L.E. That's right's, E.L.E, and what does E.L.E. stand for? EVERYBODY LOVE EVERYBODY. Right there up on the wall, because this isn't just a basketball team, this is a lifestyle. ~ Jackie Moon
nobody is "running him out of town" we're just doing whats best for the franchise. his greatest worth to us right now, is in what he can fetch us. be it a high draft pick or young talent. no matter what happens, deep down, we all just want to see him finally dance like nobody is watching.
At least your reasonable saying that you think and willing to say your wrong if he plays well. Some people on this forum seem to think there thoughts are facts and couldn't be wrong. Debating is what makes this place great but people have to be reasonable as well.
Bargnani doesn't care about defense he puts way to much emphasis on offense you can tell by his comments. You cant change his mindset at this point in his career. Casey will start hating this guy as much as most fans 5 games into the season. Anybody think the dirk effect has something p do with BC hiring Casey ossicle thinking he can turn barge into a dirk type player?
Bargnani has averaged 30 mpg over the course of his career, and this despite being one of the worst rebounding and defending big men in the entire league. How ANYONE can say he hasn't been given a far better chance than just about anyone in the history of the league? 99% of NBA players would KILL for the chances that Bargnani has received. And the majority of NBA players who have succeeded, did so with far fewer advantages than Bargnani has had.
And this has absolutely nothing to do with him being a #1 pick. The only people that are even bringing this up are the people that are making excuses for him. No one cares. In fact, him being a #1 pick has probably been his BIGGEST advantage, because it's given him more opportunities than a player drafted lower would have been given.
I'm just so sick of these excuses people come up with to explain why Bargnani has basically become the player he should have been expected when he was drafted. I didn't like the selection from day one because of two fatal flaws in his game. Lack of desire to defend and rebound. What's stunning to me is that's it's 5 years later and people still seem puzzled that he isn't even a decent rebounder or defender.
It's like a Kevin James movie. The reviews are horrible, all the reviews say it sucks, the trailer looks horrible and he's never made a decent movie. Why on earth would anyone go to the movie and think that it would be anything BUT awful?
Bargnani has never shown an ability to rebound consistently. Ever. He's never shown an ability to be even a consistently average defender. Ever. Yet people want to hold out hope that he just needs one more year and he'll get it. He's had FIVE F**KING YEARS!!!!!!!! You're not being optimistic. You're being insane.
Tim, you're being far too harsh on him.
Paul Blart Mall Cop wasn't THAT bad.
Oh wait, no I'm thinking of that other mall security guard movie with Seth Rogan
1) Our first debate on shot blocking was taken out of context as you wanted it swept under the rug and said it was essentially meaningless. I simply disagreed and thought IMO that it was usually a factor in the majority of successful defenses.
2) It's clear your clearly not a Andrea fan/supporter based on your posts on every subject related to him and most that aren't. All I suggested is that not only is he to blame but also the franchise for a number of reasons. I just stated that IMO he wasn't spoon fed such a perfect situation as most of the Anti-Dre Mob believe he was.
If you read the post again you'll see i'm not so much that i'm sticking up for him as much as being neutral and saying there are two sides to every story. Do I think they should keep him around? Yes I do unless a deal is on the table that makes them a better team. But that same philosophy would go for every player on the roster as we don't have a good enough one to label untouchable at this point.
Of the many reasons to watch the Raps this upcoming season (if there is ever one) will be the drama between Casey and Andrea. I will continue to marvel at the the fans that thinks there's still hope. We shouldn't really fight about this anymore because he ain't going anywhere. To answer WhatWhat in his question below:
An open question for anyone: Has any team gone so far out of its way for a player? (It'll be 6 seasons, assuming we keep Bargnani. SIX SEASONS!!) Has it worked?
No. In my years of watching ball, I don't recall one player being given this much royal treatment. Three coaches in five years is quite a dubious achievement. Let's go ahead and continue this debate. It keeps RR interesting. If anything, the Andrea debate is starting to separate conscious fans from the ones in denial. I mean, now there's talk of Biyombo picked at the fifth spot? Are we considering Kemba to complement Demar? Why are we drafting for one player then?
“The saving of our world from pending doom will come, not through the complacent adjustment of the conforming majority, but through the creative maladjustment of a nonconforming minority.” - Martin Luther King
-he's a rookie
-Smitch doesn't give him enough freedom
-he doesn't speak english well
-he shouldn't play C he should be a SF
-he's not a small forward he's a PF
-not his fault he was drafted #1
-he's better at C and it takes longer to develop
-he guesses "he's just lazy"
-he's playing with Bosh
-he needs more shots
-he needs a defensive C
-he needs a defensive SF
-he needs a defensive SG
-he needs a defensive PG
-he needs a defensive minded coach
-people are to hard on him and it hurts his feelings
-he's the focus of the team
-theres no one on the team to help him
-he does the "hard stuff"
-he has been given too much freedom
did I miss anything?
The "other side of the story" is excuse after excuse year after year.
Simply put its time to move on.
was just watching the interview thing on raptor tv or whatever its called now and BC and casey were both talking about how they were going to figure out a D that worked to bargs' favour. sigh. he's not going anywhere.
Yes, I will admit that I tend to get a little passionate about certain topics, but as you haven't been around here, you might not understand just how many Bargnani excuses we have had to hear. There's a reason this thread has 3 and a half thousand comments. It's not because the guy doesn't stir debate.
And while you did say there were two sides to the story, you have to realize that we've all heard the other side ad nauseum.
I don't recall having a "run in" with you previously. I recall debating something with you, but that's a very big part of this site.
I really don't wanna hear any "oh, just give him til Christmas to learn the new defense" or "he's a scorer, if we didn't have him we wouldn't win any games" and yadda friggin yadda. I don't know if my basement walls can take any more holes in them!!
Two years away...
from everything i heard i'll be shocked if he's dealt. the dirk comparisons were a little nauseating.
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