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  • Why not take advantage of Barg's skills. He is a shooter and a scorer! He could be a sixth man off the bench and play against second stringers and do lots of scoring off the bench! It's hard to replace a 20 point scorer and since we already have him ; bring him off the bench to do some scoring on the second unit!! Before I would trade him we would have to get something very good before I would dump him for nothing; as I said he could come off the bench and be a big plus!!

    Comment


    • i don't like the idea of making bargs into a 6th man. i think his greatest value outside of our starting center position is being on a different team. his value would decrease a significant amount after becoming a bench player on a losing team. also, we're not in a position to demote him and continue to have expectations of him improving his defensive reliability. making him a 6th man for his offence exclusively is the wrong approach for any progression.

      Comment


      • funkie wrote: View Post
        i don't like the idea of making bargs into a 6th man. i think his greatest value outside of our starting center position is being on a different team. his value would decrease a significant amount after becoming a bench player on a losing team. also, we're not in a position to demote him and continue to have expectations of him improving his defensive reliability. making him a 6th man for his offence exclusively is the wrong approach for any progression.
        I agree.I couldn't write it that clear.That opinion about making him 6th man should be considered by every fan here who continue to make up variants of keeping Andrea on the team.Whatever happens with his situation at the start of next season I hope B.Co would do the right thing for the TEAM.

        Comment


        • webcrawler89 wrote: View Post
          I'...Suns have Gortat, Magic probably won't want him, Bucks already have Bogut.
          you know... the Magic are the team where he would make the most sense. He can stand outside the 3 pt line and jack shots all day and stretch the floor for Dwight (much like Rashard did) and their is no player in the league that makes the most sense to back up AB's inability to defend or rebound.

          Unfortunately they have crap to offer. Bargnani for Gortat and Pietrus was a missed deal that should have been.

          Comment


          • badbob wrote: View Post
            Why not take advantage of Barg's skills. He is a shooter and a scorer! He could be a sixth man off the bench and play against second stringers and do lots of scoring off the bench! It's hard to replace a 20 point scorer and since we already have him ; bring him off the bench to do some scoring on the second unit!! Before I would trade him we would have to get something very good before I would dump him for nothing; as I said he could come off the bench and be a big plus!!
            It could be very hard for Bargs to swallow not being a starter. After all he is still in denial that it is his overall performance that has brought about this movement to trade him.
            Last edited by j bean; Sun Apr 17, 2011, 08:37 PM.

            Comment


            • Tim W. wrote: View Post
              Many implies a large number. It doesn't imply a majority. And I'd say a large number of RR posters have been advocating a Bargnani trade.
              If there is one thing BC is good at (besides his proven drafting record) is getting out of mistakes. Bargs was not a mistake at number one. The mistake is his fit with this team. It's pretty clear that the recent drafting of Ed Davis and the signing of Amir along with the trade for James Johnson marked the supposed "end" to the emulation of the old Phoenix Suns. So, with that in mind, it'll be interesting if BC can get the most out of Andrea's value. I personally don't care where AB fits or under what system he thrives at. I only care about who's coming here.

              PS> He can drop 45 on us for all I care. As long as we win.
              “The saving of our world from pending doom will come, not through the complacent adjustment of the conforming majority, but through the creative maladjustment of a nonconforming minority.” - Martin Luther King

              Comment


              • As DeRozan's also experience a large percentage drop of his shots being assisted, from 67.4% to 59.4%, we should all conclude he's finding his shot less and less within the flow of the team's offense? His insistence on going one-on-one has led to a dramatic increase in shots from the 16-23 foot range, from 2.3 a game to 5.1, which is basically the laziest shot he could take shooting . So not only does the team's offense need to basically stop to allow him his forays with the ball, but he 'rewards' the team by taking bad shots.

                I too can be very selective with discussing statistics...

                Time to get some Skittles.

                Comment


                • dballa21 wrote: View Post
                  If we can trade him to one of Kanter/Valanucunias/Montiejunas and a first rounder we should trade him for sure. BC should make the mistake of forcing the issue and not getting enough back for him.
                  Montiejunas is Bargnani Jr.

                  Comment


                  • How can Colangelo justify a Bargnani trade to skeptical bosses like Larry Tanenbaum? "Whoops, the last 5 years have been a dreadful mistake. The guy I was building around was a waste of a #1 pick and should have been nailed to the end of the bench. My bad." He might as well quit.

                    Comment


                    • I was hard on the "trade Bargnani" train and I think it is clear that he has demonstrated this season that he is not a number 1 guy on any team or a "franchise" player. However, he doesn't get paid like a franchise player, he gets paid like a 2-3 guy if not a 4-6 on a very good team. Whether you like it or not he was the focal point of our offense this year and was treated by opposing teams at our number one threat. I'm not trying to make excuses for him but one could argue that Barg's is not the problem. The fact that we have no all-stars, no franchise players, hardly any veteran presence (barbs, and reggie?) explains his drop in rebounding/shot blocking ect. Barg's was in over his head and being asked to do a job he wasn't qualified for, couldn't do, and didn't get paid for it. Barg's as the face of the franchise? You can find the answer to that question at failblog.com. But does that mean he has to go? Getting rid of Bargnani doesn't magically give us a franchise player, or an allstar or even veteran presence, unless some of those pieces are involved in that trade. Getting rid of Bargnani is not addition by subtraction. Although there are some problems with the efficiency of his production getting better players on this team would make a big difference, for the team as a whole not just Barg's. Let me be clear, I am NOT advocating that we build around bargnani. In fact it is the opposite, we need BETTER players or our younger players to continue to develop. Bargnani as a 3rd option could do just as well here as elsewhere. I don't buy the he "won't" be willing to come of the bench or that it would hurt his trade value. If we get good value for him then sure, pull the trigger, but his contract is very reasonable and as the 3rd or 4th option he could still be very effective. I know we are "mostly" and yes I mean that the majority of RR posters are on the trade bargs train. But it has to be for something BETTER. I don't think draft picks will do it. If I am the GM it's not just about getting the right players, but it's about getting the right players with the right contracts. Barg's might not be the right player but he is still better than a wrong player on a wrong contract OR even the right player at the wrong contract. Barg's gets paid to play, he'll play at the 3 position or at c or coming off the bench, because it is clear that "favouritism" from the front office/coaching staff has run out. We are still in rebuild mode and still have an excellent payroll (if you don't count peja as still being a raptor). Keeping good contracts keeps us flexible. Making a trade just to trade could leave us with a contract that limits us for going after the "final" piece to take us DEEP into the playoffs 2-4 years from now. We don't HAVE to trade Bargnani, we CAN and we SHOULD but only if get a player AND contract that give BETTER value.
                      "They're going to have to rename the whole conference after us: Toronto Raptors 2014-2015 Northern Conference Champions" ~ ezzbee Dec. 2014

                      "I guess I got a little carried away there" ~ ezzbee Apr. 2015

                      "We only have one rule on this team. What is that rule? E.L.E. That's right's, E.L.E, and what does E.L.E. stand for? EVERYBODY LOVE EVERYBODY. Right there up on the wall, because this isn't just a basketball team, this is a lifestyle. ~ Jackie Moon

                      Comment


                      • Hugmenot wrote: View Post
                        As DeRozan's also experience a large percentage drop of his shots being assisted, from 67.4% to 59.4%, we should all conclude he's finding his shot less and less within the flow of the team's offense? His insistence on going one-on-one has led to a dramatic increase in shots from the 16-23 foot range, from 2.3 a game to 5.1, which is basically the laziest shot he could take shooting . So not only does the team's offense need to basically stop to allow him his forays with the ball, but he 'rewards' the team by taking bad shots.

                        I too can be very selective with discussing statistics...

                        Time to get some Skittles.
                        GREAT point, although Demar plays Shooting Guard, whereas barg's plays Center. So Demar "shooting" from the "guard" area near the 3 pt line makes more sense than the Center, not shooting in the "Center" aka under the basket. However, I think that the problems that chislom and yourself point out is the lack of another player to contribute offensively to share the burder with derozen and barg's who would be the 2-4 options on other teams not the 1-2 options as the were this year for us.
                        "They're going to have to rename the whole conference after us: Toronto Raptors 2014-2015 Northern Conference Champions" ~ ezzbee Dec. 2014

                        "I guess I got a little carried away there" ~ ezzbee Apr. 2015

                        "We only have one rule on this team. What is that rule? E.L.E. That's right's, E.L.E, and what does E.L.E. stand for? EVERYBODY LOVE EVERYBODY. Right there up on the wall, because this isn't just a basketball team, this is a lifestyle. ~ Jackie Moon

                        Comment


                        • what does "large" or "small" have to do with numbers?

                          I think "many" implies a group greater than "not many", but it's completely within the realm of possibility that the group indicated would not be large. For example, in relation to the NBA as a whole, how many fans are Raptors fans? Not many. Of those fans, how many would support the idea of trading Bargnani? Even fewer; so, less than not many.

                          I don't know if using the term "many" was appropriate, and it certainly has little or nothing to do with a majority, but using "large" and "small" to describe number is a conceptual misnomer as such terms relate to physical size. So, unless you're describing the number "1,000,000" as larger in space than "1"...
                          It's about money

                          Comment


                          • (just to be a prick)
                            It's about money

                            Comment


                            • ezz_bee wrote: View Post
                              I was hard on the "trade Bargnani" train and I think it is clear that he has demonstrated this season that he is not a number 1 guy on any team or a "franchise" player. However, he doesn't get paid like a franchise player, he gets paid like a 2-3 guy if not a 4-6 on a very good team. Whether you like it or not he was the focal point of our offense this year and was treated by opposing teams at our number one threat. I'm not trying to make excuses for him but one could argue that Barg's is not the problem. The fact that we have no all-stars, no franchise players, hardly any veteran presence (barbs, and reggie?) explains his drop in rebounding/shot blocking ect. Barg's was in over his head and being asked to do a job he wasn't qualified for, couldn't do, and didn't get paid for it. Barg's as the face of the franchise? You can find the answer to that question at failblog.com. But does that mean he has to go? Getting rid of Bargnani doesn't magically give us a franchise player, or an allstar or even veteran presence, unless some of those pieces are involved in that trade. Getting rid of Bargnani is not addition by subtraction. Although there are some problems with the efficiency of his production getting better players on this team would make a big difference, for the team as a whole not just Barg's. Let me be clear, I am NOT advocating that we build around bargnani. In fact it is the opposite, we need BETTER players or our younger players to continue to develop. Bargnani as a 3rd option could do just as well here as elsewhere. I don't buy the he "won't" be willing to come of the bench or that it would hurt his trade value. If we get good value for him then sure, pull the trigger, but his contract is very reasonable and as the 3rd or 4th option he could still be very effective. I know we are "mostly" and yes I mean that the majority of RR posters are on the trade bargs train. But it has to be for something BETTER. I don't think draft picks will do it. If I am the GM it's not just about getting the right players, but it's about getting the right players with the right contracts. Barg's might not be the right player but he is still better than a wrong player on a wrong contract OR even the right player at the wrong contract. Barg's gets paid to play, he'll play at the 3 position or at c or coming off the bench, because it is clear that "favouritism" from the front office/coaching staff has run out. We are still in rebuild mode and still have an excellent payroll (if you don't count peja as still being a raptor). Keeping good contracts keeps us flexible. Making a trade just to trade could leave us with a contract that limits us for going after the "final" piece to take us DEEP into the playoffs 2-4 years from now. We don't HAVE to trade Bargnani, we CAN and we SHOULD but only if get a player AND contract that give BETTER value.
                              Personally, I never saw or expected Bargnani to be a franchise player. I expected him to be more of a leader. But even if he's being paid as a 2nd or 3rd option...it still isn't worth it. He's regressing on the boards and defensively. So he only scores inefficiently. I mean like, given that he's only scores...and not that well, is a plyon defensively and a historically bad rebound, how useful is the guy as a starter? Everything about him screams bench player, but even so his flaws will still have to be catered to in order for him to be true effectively and now the team just doesn't have the makeup for it, nor is it worth changing for him.

                              Defensively, getting rid of Bargnani is addition by subtraction.

                              That said, I agree that we should force our way into a trading. We should get value, but we should also be shopping him hard.

                              Comment


                              • Brandon wrote: View Post
                                How can Colangelo justify a Bargnani trade to skeptical bosses like Larry Tanenbaum? "Whoops, the last 5 years have been a dreadful mistake. The guy I was building around was a waste of a #1 pick and should have been nailed to the end of the bench. My bad." He might as well quit.
                                Colangelo shouldn't have to justify trading Bargs or anyone else to somebody like Tanenbaum.

                                Comment

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