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  • Well we can at least admit he sucks being a top 15 scorer in the NBA. So no matter what happens and what coaching does next at least we are certain of one thing, our team produced at top 15 scorer who doesn’t deserve to be here and should be traded.
    YES he should be traded.I am glad we finally agree here.I don't agree about the excuses you made about his rebounds,or that you keep pointing out his offense which might be helpful but no with the team that we have and will have.It'd take a major change in coaching and personnel so that he'd be actually contributing to win many games.The language is not excuse at all.English is not my language and yet I would understand everything my coaches are saying.Sit your ass on the books after you're drafted and learn the basics.After that while you're in country where everybody are speaking it is very easy to get it.I guess he didn't really put much effort in learning the language...no surprise for me here.And is is HUGE advantage that he came from Italy.Because in Europe he played against MEN,not against boys like Amir had.I can't stop whining about him because I don't like the way he plays.I don't like that I don't see commitment from him,I don't see effort,I don't see much positive at all.I have thought about it and I think even for him it would be better to be traded.Too much noise has been made around him this season.Too much criticism.If he gets traded he can start fresh and so will the Raptors.And most of us will quit arguing about him.We will find someone else to criticise,spit and blame...maybe Triano??

    Comment


    • heinz57 wrote: View Post
      i actually like bargs, but i hope he gets traded.

      so people will stop f$%king whining about him.
      Yeah ... I'm so close to that feeling, it's probably passing right by me and I don't even know. In some respects, I think he should move on, just so he can experience a supportive fan base.

      If I didn't know better, I think draft picks will become like free agents - not wanting to come here either.
      .

      Comment


      • Raptors fans support people who work hard. I hope he can find a group of fans who soley quantify worth by one stat, PPG. In the process I hope they discard are their "junk" on to the Raptors. You know, hustle guys who can be effective with or without the ball and do things on both sides of the court which helps on off nights so that their net impact isn't negative.

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        • LBF wrote: View Post
          if bargnani isn't gone by next year, i think someone just might think of some crazy scheme to get his ass deported.
          We could sneak some narcotics in to his box of Primo.

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          • Apollo wrote: View Post
            Raptors fans support people who work hard.
            Working Hard does not necessarily mean success. Talent and skills are needed as well. Every team needs few skilled talented player, few hard nose guys, few garbage men who dive on the floor and crash the boards and ...

            You can not have a winner with having a team full of Skilled Player who do NOT work too hard or don't do the dirty Job. The same is true that you can not have a team full of garbage man who can not shoot pass the 15 feet line and dribble the ball !!

            It is nice to see the fans here who are used to Hockey and ... appreciating the garbage man , blue color type players but the constant bashing of STARS in this city, be it it was VC, Bosh and now AB is just ridiculous.

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            • heinz57 wrote: View Post
              i actually like bargs, but i hope he gets traded.

              so people will stop f$%king whining about him.
              I 2nd that. I want AB in the play off next season, Just like Marco who everyone here was screaming CAN NOT play Defense and now is in Play offs and their TEAM defense is much better than ours.

              AB deserves better than Toronto and I can not wait to see this team next season. I made a prediction in another thread. With BC and Jay in Charge and AB out of Toronto, This team will not win more than 18 games next season.

              Comment


              • Raptor4Ever wrote: View Post
                I 2nd that. I want AB in the play off next season, Just like Marco who everyone here was screaming CAN NOT play Defense and now is in Play offs and their TEAM defense is much better than ours.

                AB deserves better than Toronto and I can not wait to see this team next season. I made a prediction in another thread. With BC and Jay in Charge and AB out of Toronto, This team will not win more than 18 games next season.
                18 games? your joking right? we'll win atleast 10 more games than this season for sure. BC will make a blockbuster trade for sure.

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                • ceez wrote: View Post
                  You're breaking new ground, Dino. Welcome!
                  Like ceez said, welcome.

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                  • Raptors_ wrote: View Post
                    18 games? your joking right? we'll win atleast 10 more games than this season for sure. BC will make a blockbuster trade for sure.
                    I predicted between 15-25 for this season and I was pretty damn close. What was your prediction ?

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                    • Raptor4Ever wrote: View Post
                      I predicted between 15-25 for this season and I was pretty damn close. What was your prediction ?
                      around 30, i would have been right. But with half the team injured the season, i'm suprised we even won 22.

                      Comment


                      • Raptor4Ever wrote: View Post
                        Working Hard does not necessarily mean success. Talent and skills are needed as well. Every team needs few skilled talented player, few hard nose guys, few garbage men who dive on the floor and crash the boards and ...

                        You can not have a winner with having a team full of Skilled Player who do NOT work too hard or don't do the dirty Job. The same is true that you can not have a team full of garbage man who can not shoot pass the 15 feet line and dribble the ball !!

                        It is nice to see the fans here who are used to Hockey and ... appreciating the garbage man , blue color type players but the constant bashing of STARS in this city, be it it was VC, Bosh and now AB is just ridiculous.
                        Scoring power is easier to come across than blue collar, hard working players who contribute on both sides of the court. I never said I wanted them to deal Bargnani for talentless players. I want talent back, just with the right mentality to help build towards a winner. Guys with Bargnani's mentality don't appear often on championship teams... Certainly not in important starting roles.

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                        • Raptor4Ever wrote: View Post
                          I 2nd that. I want AB in the play off next season, Just like Marco who everyone here was screaming CAN NOT play Defense and now is in Play offs and their TEAM defense is much better than ours.

                          AB deserves better than Toronto and I can not wait to see this team next season. I made a prediction in another thread. With BC and Jay in Charge and AB out of Toronto, This team will not win more than 18 games next season.


                          Also, people here thought that Marco was a bad defender? What the hell?

                          Comment


                          • DunkinDerozan wrote: View Post
                            The thing is you need to consider not only boxing out, you need consider the position of a player when grabbing an available rebound. The majority of games this year bargnani was forced to guard the pick and roll, while his defensive partner Ed, Amir, Reggie were locate underneath the basket. Logic suggest its much more likely you will get a rebound right next to the basket as appose to away from the basket. Again like I said it’s really hard to measure defense and rebounding because players on poor defensive teams often times focus on team problems, such as rotating helping out etc.. which leaves them less focused on guarding the basket and being available for rebounding opportunities.
                            The pick and roll argument would make sense if Bargnani was always the one defending the pick and roll. It wasn't. And the argument also doesn't work because neither Amir nor Davis appear to be bad defenders, yet they play on the same team as Bargnani.

                            DunkinDerozan wrote: View Post
                            Most teams in the playoffs have a scoring 4 playing alongside a true 5. Dirk, Bosh, Boozer, Aldridge, Gasol, etcc all these teams have legitimate stretch 4’s which are crucial to winning. Bargnani is ALWAYS an asset to his team on the offensive end. He spreads the floor and keeps defenses honest. His defense has steadily been improving if you discount rebounding .. his positioning has improved, he is more willing to take charges than ever before and he often tries (without much success) to help out his teammates.
                            Where you completely lose this is when you say that Bargnani has been steadily improving on defense. I have not seen any evidence of this, and it seems you're really the only one who has. He is worse defensively this season then he ever has been.

                            And teams don't need a stretch 4. Oklahoma certainly doesn't have one. Neither does San Antonio. All you really need is a big man who can hit from 15 feet to keep defenses honest, and Amir does this. I also don't see what the point of complaining that the Raptors won't have a big man who can stretch the defense when we don't even know who the center will even be next year. If it's Kanter, he's apparently a good outside shooter.

                            DunkinDerozan wrote: View Post
                            How is coming out oh highschool any more difficult then coming strait from Europe without speaking a word of English? At least Amir was able to communicate with his coaches and not just nod his head pretending he knew what was expected of him.
                            First of all Bargnani did speak a little English. Secondly, Bargnani played professionally against grown men before coming to the NBA. Amir lived at home and had played against kids. Big, big difference, no matter what the language barrier.

                            DunkinDerozan wrote: View Post
                            I think the defensive issue has less to do with Andrea and more to do with the team. If you put the proper defensive players around Andrea the team defensive will improve. Every team needs a balance between offense and defense. You can’t just put two defensive minded bigs in your starting lineup who provide no offense because it will become an offensive nightmare, which is why having a scoring big man is a huge advantage to any team’s success which is not measured by rebounding but WINS.
                            Bargnani is the worst defender on the team, so removing him will automatically make the defense better. It's simple logic. There certainly need to be improvements beyond that, but removing Bargnani from the picture will certainly help.

                            And your argument, as I've said, doesn't take into account who the center will be next year. And both Amir and Davis do provide offense. Not as much as Bargnani, but since they also play defense, they don't need to score as much to make a positive impact. No one is denying the need to provide offense, but you seem set on the player providing the offense having a negative impact on the defensive end. Most of us just would rather have any offensive players also being able to play defense. I really don't understand why you don't. It doesn't have to be one or the other, you know.

                            DunkinDerozan wrote: View Post
                            Was he handed his 10 million dollar contract on a silver plate as well. You can’t fake talent or production at the NBA level. Colangelo and those who approve player signings don’t hand out money for nothing espcially the second time around. Yes his shooting percentage efficeny decreased from previous years but that is going to happen when you are constantly doubled teamed and have little talent around you. What I find interesting however is with the added defensive pressure and the subtraction of arguably our best player in Bosh he was still able to increase his scoring production which to me indicates his offensive skill set dramatically improved from previous years.
                            Why is it when you're arguing that his contract is good you say it's $8 million, but in this case you say it's a $10 million? And that doesn't matter at all. Did Charlie Villanueva deserve his contract? He's a very good offensive player who is almost as bad defensively as Bargnani is. And I want nothing to do with either of them because of their poor defense.

                            DunkinDerozan wrote: View Post
                            Every player has a specific role. Andrea is not paid to dive for loose balls or push around with 280 pounders. Its like asking the ceo of a company to generate income AND do the heavy lifiting. Most likely wont happen, nor is it efficient for the company since the ceo may risk pulling a back muscle and then who know which direction the company will go in. 
                            This is a bogus argument. There are certain things that ALL players should be expected to do. Especially if you want to win. Winners do what it takes to win, whether that be playing defense or rebounding or whatever. Even role players who are winners will do whatever it takes to win. If you don't think Bargnani needs to do any dirty work, then you are basically excusing him from winning.

                            DunkinDerozan wrote: View Post
                            Well we can at least admit he sucks being a top 15 scorer in the NBA. So no matter what happens and what coaching does next at least we are certain of one thing, our team produced at top 15 scorer who doesn’t deserve to be here and should be traded.
                            Corey Maggette has been a top 15 scorer. So has Dana Barros. And Tony Campbell. There's a long list of guys who can score if given enough shots on a bad team. A lot of them failed to find a role on a good team because they refused to do the "dirty work". Your whole argument in support of Bargnani seems to be that he's a top 15 scorer, but you don't seem to get that doesn't necessarily make him a really good player.
                            Read my blog, The Picket Fence. Guaranteed to make you think or your money back!
                            Follow me on Twitter.

                            Comment


                            • Why do so many Bargnani supporters (at least the most vocal ones) seem to believe that either a player is a great scorer, or has no offensive talent, and there's nothing in between? The whole argument seems to be that you need scoring to win, and if you want Bargnani traded that automatically means that you don't want anyone on the team that can score. It's either Bargnani or Reggie Evans.

                              Believe it or not, you can get a player who can score AND play defense. Can you imagine that?
                              Read my blog, The Picket Fence. Guaranteed to make you think or your money back!
                              Follow me on Twitter.

                              Comment


                              • WhatWhat wrote: View Post

                                Also, people here thought that Marco was a bad defender? What the hell?
                                Call it what ever you want but it is the TRUTH. People on this board called Marco an awful defender. His minute was getting shorter and shorter because the Typicall Raptor fan were saying he can not stay in front of his man and ...

                                Well, he is starting for a Play off team now and holding his own !! Same can be said to some extend about Jack. Same was said about Bonner. Bosh was deemed a weak defender and the Bashers were all over him last night.

                                Mark my word, AB will be dropping 30+ pt on this Scrub of Raptor team and will be shining in the play offs if he is traded.

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