Everything Bargnani

[TheGloveinRapsUniform]

Seriously, the stats are good, and historically, stats are very reliable at predicting future numbers, but i think this maybe one situation wherein the stats from previous seasons may not apply.

1st of all, we all know Bosh was the focal point of the offense last season. i maybe wrong, but maybe if the raps had 10 set plays, more likely 3 are for Bargs, which means that his shots usually came from broken plays or him being aggressive on offense. i think you can rely on the stats if bargs was the focal point of offense and you know he will be getting around the same amount of shots on a given night, but you cant, coz he's not the #1 option.

[Buddahfan]

Seriously, the stats are good, and historically, stats are very reliable at predicting future numbers, but i think this maybe one situation wherein the stats from previous seasons may not apply.

1st of all, we all know Bosh was the focal point of the offense last season. i maybe wrong, but maybe if the raps had 10 set plays, more likely 3 are for Bargs, which means that his shots usually came from broken plays or him being aggressive on offense. i think you can rely on the stats if bargs was the focal point of offense and you know he will be getting around the same amount of shots on a given night, but you cant, coz he's not the #1 option. and also, bosh was a perimeter player, eventhough you guys wont admit it, he took way more perimeter shots than back to the baskets or penetrations. which means, the longer he hangs on to the ball, and the longer the misses are.

Excuses, excuses.

You make the typical "can't be argued" statement when you say that most of his offense came off of broken plays.

I don't agree. The Raptors ran tons on plays for him.

As a general rule Bosh was the first option and he was the second

However, it is not like everyone else on the Raptors besides Bosh got their shots off of broken plays. Hogwash!!

You are also saying that stats are meaningless for all players in the NBA unless they are the main focus of the offense the majority of the time. Hogwash.!!

[Frankthetank]

My name is Buddah and I come up with useless stats that back up my retarded thoughts.

[pesterm1]

I can see DeMar taking over as the Rap's Marquee player very early next season. If only Bargnani had DD's drive, work ethic....in the US basketball is a culture- overseas it's just a game.

SirChillyMost, i think your confused on the difference between "Marquee player" and a "franchise players"...
Bargnani is definetly a marquee player. As mentinoed early some players can be a marquee player but not a leader. if a player possesses both Marque and leadership roles then i would call them a FRANCHISE PLAYER.
I would consider Demar and any other play on the raptors that bring a signifigant impact towards team wins as a "Marquee player"
Not every team needs a franchise player. if everyone works together we will see success. Not every team needs a franchise player but we do need a leader. If demar and Bargs both dropped 20 and 6 a night and no one was truely established as our " franchise guy" would it even matter? The raptors are starting to look like the Pistons in 04-05 and i think thats the kind of team work this franchise needs.

[Frankthetank]

Have you ever wondered why statistical nerds never play or coach basketball? Its because you have to combine basketball experience, preparation, feeling, athletic ability, team work, hard word and basketball IQ to be successful in basketball. Statistical analysis by itself makes you look like a fool.

[smushmush]

Any team that has to rely on Bargnani as its Franchise(Marquee) player is doomed in the NBA. Bargnani has shown me nothing but inconsistency over his career and in year 5 folks should expect more of the same- has Bargnani ever grabbed 20 rebounds in a game? Barg's had a chance to step up when Bosh was out and he did not- now he's suppose to lead TO for a whole season?lol With the bright lights focused on Bargnani in 2010-11 he will wilt from the brightness- just wait....pressure makes Diamonds but it also bursts pipes.

BC's Raptor vision is bullsh*t with Bargnani as the biggest roster turd!!!!!!!!

Agreed, all I hear about Bargnani is excuses. First it was Bosh was keeping him from shining now its the italian coach didn't use him correctly to the player that he was guarding was a nba allstar in the making. I can't wait for the season to start so he can be traded and colangelo can be shown the door along with his number one pick. Ater year #5 youre not going to see anything that you havn't seen already. NOBODY BUSTS OUT IN YEAR FIVE.

+1. I'm hoping the used car salesman BC gets fired and Andrea traded to some sucker NBA team to be the team's coach headache.lol..

[hateslosing]

Buddha, the conclusion I come up with from your stats (and thank you for posting them) is that the Raptors success this past season came when Bargs shot well from three and that when he shot poorly the team lost. Last year he was a fairly inconsistent three point shooter, but his stroke is still very smooth and his form is pretty perfect so I think it may have been more of an issue with him being frozen out of the offense during some of our famous Bosh iso's and being out of rhythm for his shots. Plus I don't think he spends much time working on his three pointer in practice since there is such a demand for him to improve as a post player.

Andrea's three point shooting is the reason our offense was so good last season and it will be the reason we will have a good offense this coming season. The floor spacing he provides will give DeRozen the room he needs to drive the ball and open up some space for Amir and Davis to work in the high and low posts.

I am actually of the opinion that if BC has decided that DeRozen is the future and that we are going to be a running team, that they should tell Bargs to work harder on his three point shot and three point drive and stop trying to become a post player. In a run and gun style offense he will make an excellent trailer and the spacing he provides in the half court will give DeRozen the lanes he will need to become an elite scorer.

Bargnani is not going to be our long term #1 guy,

[Brain Colangelo]

Correlate the win/loss for the other bombing big men on days when they hit 3+ (ie. Charlie V., Dirk, Harrington, Frye, Murphy, Wallace, Bonner, Anderson and Tolliver. And Okur.

Then let's talk. It only makes sense that when guys who average just over 4 attempts a game make more it would be a product of a gae when they're shooting better.

Also, compare attempts, not makes. Attempts are controllable by shot selection. Makes, less so.

[Buddahfan]

Correlate the win/loss for the other bombing big men on days when they hit 3+ (ie. Charlie V., Dirk, Harrington, Frye, Murphy, Wallace, Bonner, Anderson and Tolliver. And Okur.

Then let's talk. It only makes sense that when guys who average just over 4 attempts a game make more it would be a product of a gae when they're shooting better.

Also, compare attempts, not makes. Attempts are controllable by shot selection. Makes, less so.

You are avoiding the whole point here.

The question is:

Should the Raptors build their offense around a guy who only averages 14 ppg in 60% of his games and the Raptors lose about 60% of those games. On top of that his offensive rating in 09-10 was a horrible 108. In fact in his entire career his offense rating number has never exceeded his defense rating number. He has been a negative every year of is career and the gap is not getting much smaller.

06-07 -9
07-08 -7
08-09 -5
09-10 -5


http://www.basketball-reference.com/...bargnan01.html

It seems pretty clear that making Bargnani the #1 option on offense in 10-11 or whenever would be a big mistake unless he can

1. Significantly increase his unassisted field goals
2. Increase the number of field goals he makes within 15 feet of the basket
3. At least doubles the number of times that he gets to the free throw line per game.

Who cares about these other players and their teams.

These other players don't play for the Raptors.

We are talking Raptors here

[TheGloveinRapsUniform]

Excuses, excuses.

You make the typical "can't be argued" statement when you say that most of his offense came off of broken plays.

I don't agree. The Raptors ran tons on plays for him.

As a general rule Bosh was the first option and he was the second

However, it is not like everyone else on the Raptors besides Bosh got their shots off of broken plays. Hogwash!!

You are also saying that stats are meaningless for all players in the NBA unless they are the main focus of the offense the majority of the time. Hogwash.!!

hahaha sorry buddha. you know im a big fan of your stats presentations but its actually more amusing rather than reliable.

if you follow the games rather than check the stats after, there's always more variables than constants. its not always the same guys on the floor, each guy has different skill sets, different teams, different game time, arena, weather, etc. bargs may put up 14 shots in back to back nights, but a different player with different skillsets maybe guarding him. it maybe murphy who is guarding him one night, and then okafor the next. of course those 2 players will guard him differently, okafor will most of the time let him leak onto the 3 pt area, while murphy is more likely to stick to him. one game he maybe tired from flying, one day he's well rested. of course these factors can alter his shots. i hope you get what im saying.

like what triano said, you can look at Xs and Os all you want, but you have to consider personal relationships as well. its the same here, you can figure out stats as much as you want, but in the end, its always the situation in which the player is in that makes the difference.

[Brain Colangelo]

You are avoiding the whole point here.

The question is:

Should the Raptors build their offense around a guy who only averages 14 ppg in 60% of his games and the Raptors lose about 60% of those games. ...

We're talking about whether you have a point. I think you don't. Prove that you do by broadening your sample.

[RaptorRoo]

Who really cares if Bargs or the team for that matter isn't a draw in opposing teams arenas? In fact, that's can be to OUR advantage, because lower attendance in these arenas means neutralizing their home court advantage.
You can still be a very good player and not necessarily a marquee player because that just means you don't have a flashy style that would be considered highly marketable.
Whether or not Bargs is a marquee player doesn't have any bearing on the teams success on the court this season.
In the end I don't care if we are not considered a good draw on the road. That doesn't mean were not a good TEAM, it just means we don't have any marquee players that opposing fans would be excited to watch.

[JoePanini]

Bargs is not an NBA Marquee player, but he's our Marquee player. The NBA would'nt use his name or image to promote their product like say LBJ or Kevin Durant, but locally he's in ads, billboards and commercials. A Marquee player would be someone you mention to promote a game, just like a movie or show.

Wrong. He is very important for the NBA internationally, he's up there with Yao, Dirk and Kobe when you talk about popular players in Europe and Asia. NBA make alot of money from Bargnani in the rest of the world. He is on the cover of videogames, europe tour etc... So, the NBA does use his name.

[JoePanini]

I can see DeMar taking over as the Rap's Marquee player very early next season. If only Bargnani had DD's drive, work ethic....in the US basketball is a culture- overseas it's just a game.

I am sorry, but I have lived in Europe. I've lived in Toronto, Nice, Rome, Malta, Lagos, Adis Ababa, Caracas and Kuala Lumpur. All over the world people love Basketball, just because this game is considered and is better in the US doesn't mean that people in Europe don't love the game. As a child we are thought to play all the games from Volleyball to squarish to football to tennis etc.. Drive and Work ethic? You think only American players have that? You think that Euro players don't have that, I suggest you go to Europe, watch and play the game, listen to the people before you make such statements. I want to remind you that in Europe, we practice 5 days a week, 2 hours a day and that is for an amateur like me. If you miss a practice you get a suspension. If you don't stick to the plays no matter how good you get subbed off. But in Europe basketball players play TOGETHER as a team, and make sure each and everyone of them give their best, and if they can't many times we actually ask to be subbed off. I'm sorry, but I feel slightly offended by saying we have no drive or worth ethic, total crap.

[JoePanini]

Agreed, all I hear about Bargnani is excuses. First it was Bosh was keeping him from shining now its the italian coach didn't use him correctly to the player that he was guarding was a nba allstar in the making. I can't wait for the season to start so he can be traded and colangelo can be shown the door along with his number one pick. Ater year #5 youre not going to see anything that you havn't seen already. NOBODY BUSTS OUT IN YEAR FIVE.

Devin Harris?