Everything Bargnani

[Multipaul]

i dont care if his natural position is PG... he plays center. has played center his whole career. and will continue to play center.

so to say he is in the top 3 PF's in the east is just pointless like this whole thread.

btw not sure if you have ever heard of KG, CB4, boozer, tyrus thomas, j smooth, or amare just to name a few.

but yea he's def in the top 3.

I would rather have bargs than Bosh, Thomas, J Smooth, Amare, etc. They have so many injury issues and inconsistencies in their game. They have serious defensive issues too. Are you kidding me, Ty Thomas??? KG is another story though, he is legit.

[Multipaul]

Just wanted to jump in and mention that Bargs has produced negative wins (as calculated by Dave Berri's wins produced formula) every year he's been in the league.

His PER just barely cracked average for the first time last season.

His defensive rating (points allowed per 100 possessions while he's on the court) has increased every year he's been in the league (that's bad).

His percentage of misses rebounded on the defensive end hovers around 16%, which for a center is pathetic. I can excuse the lack of offensive boards due to positioning, but not grabbing defensive boards is inexcusable. As a reference point, he grabbed roughly the same percentage of available defensive boards as Turkoglu last year.

There's more to the game than scoring points. Nobody doubts his offense, or more accurately his ability to produce offensively within a system (jury's still very much out on whether he can be a #1 option). But unless he can contribute more than some 3s and the occasional block in one-on-one defensive situations, he's simply not a productive basketball player.

If you check out Wayne Winston's mathletic analysis then you will change your tune quickly

[vinnie_paz]

bargs could seriously be top 3 in the east... i remember a bargs interview where he said j.o. helped him a lot and that was how he had a great year when j.o. was here...

maybe bc should sign a veteran centre to help bargs' development...

not being sarcastic, i really believe he can do it... jay's gotta push him to the next level...

[Hassan]

maybe something extra is an extra european to the raptors

[Buddahfan]

Just wanted to jump in and mention that Bargs has produced negative wins (as calculated by Dave Berri's wins produced formula) every year he's been in the league.

His PER just barely cracked average for the first time last season.

His defensive rating (points allowed per 100 possessions while he's on the court) has increased every year he's been in the league (that's bad).

His percentage of misses rebounded on the defensive end hovers around 16%, which for a center is pathetic. I can excuse the lack of offensive boards due to positioning, but not grabbing defensive boards is inexcusable. As a reference point, he grabbed roughly the same percentage of available defensive boards as Turkoglu last year.

There's more to the game than scoring points. Nobody doubts his offense, or more accurately his ability to produce offensively within a system (jury's still very much out on whether he can be a #1 option). But unless he can contribute more than some 3s and the occasional block in one-on-one defensive situations, he's simply not a productive basketball player.

+1

[Buddahfan]

If you check out Wayne Winston's mathletic analysis then you will change your tune quickly

Really?

Link please or at least a page # on a book or paper of his that supports this.

Thanks

[Multipaul]

Really?

Link please or at least a page # on a book or paper of his that supports this.

Thanks

Don't be a hater man

http://nspyouth.org/winston.html

[LBF]

This thread & Bargnani gets the Gas Face, for str8 up perpetrating a fraud!!!!!!!

This thread is an example of- your brain being on drugs..............lol

nah, try this.

[Bendit]

I echo Buddahfan's sentiments. His "arsenal" reference I take to mean offensive improvement, a new wrinkle maybe. Has anyone ever seen him spin in a bank shot? I would have been more enthused if he actually made reference to at least one of the game's defensive elements...rebounding, shot blocking, help/post defense, slapping Perkins in the head (ok mebbe thats asking too much)...

[Lark Benson]

If you check out Wayne Winston's mathletic analysis then you will change your tune quickly

I haven't read Mathletics, and I find it hard to believe that the author devoted any time to a discussion of Bargnani's value in the book. Care to elaborate on exactly WHY I'd change my tune?

[sleepz]

Just wanted to jump in and mention that Bargs has produced negative wins (as calculated by Dave Berri's wins produced formula) every year he's been in the league.

His PER just barely cracked average for the first time last season.

His defensive rating (points allowed per 100 possessions while he's on the court) has increased every year he's been in the league (that's bad).

His percentage of misses rebounded on the defensive end hovers around 16%, which for a center is pathetic. I can excuse the lack of offensive boards due to positioning, but not grabbing defensive boards is inexcusable. As a reference point, he grabbed roughly the same percentage of available defensive boards as Turkoglu last year.

There's more to the game than scoring points. Nobody doubts his offense, or more accurately his ability to produce offensively within a system (jury's still very much out on whether he can be a #1 option). But unless he can contribute more than some 3s and the occasional block in one-on-one defensive situations, he's simply not a productive basketball player.

Logical, insightful and true, yet nothing logical is ever accepted (or can be argued without being a hater) by the Bargnani fans who are awaiting his break through entering his 5th year in the league.

I sincerely hope he steps it up and improves his game tremendously, cause if he doesn't there are going to be some all-time excuses being tossed around on this forum for a player that has yet to accomplish anything of significance in his career.

Good luck Andrea, I wish you well.

[blaze89]

i think hes preparing to add some pizza pizza commercials to his arsenal

[sixtyeight]

slapping Perkins in the head (ok mebbe thats asking too much)...

No it's not too much, I'd love to see that (Perk reaction included) please someone start a petition!

[Arsenalist]

He's been saying stuff like this for a while now, wake me up when he actually does it.

[Lark Benson]

Here's another fun set of stats for Multipaul, because I know he loves to criticize Bosh.

From 82games.com we find that:

Bargnani was on the court for 2799 minutes last season, and Bosh was on the court for 2525.

Of the Raptors' top 20 most used lineups (again according to 82games.com) the Bosh and Bargnani combo features heavily, accounting for 1481.4 total minutes. That means that at least 59% of Bosh's total minutes on the floor were with Bargnani, and that at least 53% of Bargnani's total minutes were played with Bosh.

What's interesting then, is that over the course of the season the Raps were 152 net points better with Bosh on the floor than off, and 164 points WORSE with Bargnani on the floor.

A closer look at the numbers shows that Raps scored 6080 points with Bargs on the floor and allowed 6235, for a net gain of -155. While Bargs was on the bench the team essentially treaded water, scoring 2454 and allowing 2445, for a net gain of +9.

With Bosh on the floor the Raps scored 5509 and allowed 5506 for a +3 net, and while he was on the bench the team suffered greatly, scoring 3025 and allowing 3174 for a painful -149.

Again, these two players played over 50% of their total minutes together, meaning that while they were both on the floor together their net gains would be identical. Now even a casual fan can tell you (and a glance back at the top 20 5-man units will confirm) that one of either Bosh or Bargnani was on the floor nearly every minute of every game in which injuries didn't play a part. So, what to conclude? While Bosh was off the floor and Bargnani was on, things got ugly. Be it from injuries or substitution patterns, Bargnani was NOT able to hold his own and to help his team win basketball games when he didn't have an allstar by his side.

Doesn't exactly bode well for next year, does it?