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  • Was David Robinson peaking when he won a title with Tim Duncan? How about Shaq when he won it with Wade? What you need to do is build a really strong team. It doesn't have to be perfect, it just needs to be better than the guys on the other side of the court. I don't think any GM in the league is operating with the mindset that they just need to gather 10-15 guys in their primes. No, they're thinking they need to gather 10-15 highly talent guys together who best fit the system they feel can win championships. That's my take on it.

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    • Where is Tim now that we're actually starting to justify the Raps keeping Bargnani? hahaha
      I shouldve used this on Tim a long time ago, the "peak" factor.

      Also, i kinda noticed that the initial question was "has bargnani peaked?" and now the discussion is turning into "should they trade Bargnani now?"

      IMO, because i value loyalty and hardwork, IF Bargnani keeps this effort and hardwork up until the end of the season, i say keep him. I think its unfair to demand this much from your player and have him respond, only to dump him coz his trade "value" has gone up. I dont think thats the right way to reward a player, or anybody for that matter. But dont get me wrong, if the right trade presents itself (with the Raptors getting another franchise player in return) then by all means trade him. But to trade him for "potential" (draft picks, rookie) i think would be sending a wrong message to the other players, that this team has no backbone.

      I sincerely think that Bargnani can be a piece that the Raptors can bank on for the future (again, IF effort and hardwork is consistent). I would like for him to be a part of the core moving forward.

      Has he peaked? I say getting there. With his efforts this year, i think he has shown that he can still improve in other areas of his game. I think when his rebounding and assist numbers go up a bit, then maybe we can look at him and his "peak" factor.

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      • bargs is proving to be one of the most capable players in casey's new system.

        if i'm getting ready to go out... got a nice varvatos suit on.. tailored shirt... freshly pressed tie.. freshly polished brogues on my feet..

        i dont go "yo! this is all clicking and works well together.... but im going to switch up the shoes for some nike shox"

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        • heinz57 wrote: View Post
          bargs is proving to be one of the most capable players in casey's new system.

          if i'm getting ready to go out... got a nice varvatos suit on.. tailored shirt... freshly pressed tie.. freshly polished brogues on my feet..

          i dont go "yo! this is all clicking and works well together.... but im going to switch up the shoes for some nike shox"
          It's been done before (see Memphis trading Pau Gasol). I'm not necessarily saying I agree with the "sell high" mantra...I'm just saying it's not unheard of.

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          • But the Grizzlies didn't sell high. They're not a good example. At the time what they received was viewed as a total fleecing. Sure, now it looks good, but back then they were given a bunch of scraps and luckily out of that Marc Gasol turned out to be one of the best second round prospects of the last decade. There was absolutely no way they could have known what he would grow into then.

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            • Apollo wrote: View Post
              Somebody needs to test that Primo, it may not meet league regulations.
              they also cut out that little thing at the end that used to be on the commercials

              "everyone knows it's primo" then there was a word it kind of sounded like "grapevine". but, it's not on the commercials anymore. This requires further investigation as it may uncover the bargnani mystery.

              aha... upon further investigation i have discovered that it was "graywire" at the end of the commercial as in graywire enhancements. You thought we wouldn't find out didn't you!? you damn hairy italians! You've been giving Bargnani steroids because you discovered the root of all his laziness was all the pasta he was eating. So, you decided to put a little something extra in the sauce!!

              luckily, scooby and the gang were here to solve the mystery.


              I would have gotten away with it too

              another mystery solved!!
              If Your Uncle Jack Helped You Off An Elephant, Would You Help Your Uncle Jack Off An Elephant?

              Sometimes, I like to buy a book on CD and listen to it, while reading music.

              Comment


              • Had a long day in the office today, so didn't get a chance to watch the forums today.

                It seems that the majority of posters feel that keeping Bargnani is fine, and even if this year is the best statistical season we will ever get from him, he may be consistently good enough to keep around until we turn the corner. I equate Bargnani to someone like Deng then. A guy that the Bulls were trying to build around, and just couldn't get there until they got solid pieces around him (Rose, Noah, Boozer). Now they are one of the best teams in the league, and favourites to win it all (if they can get through Miami).

                Deng right now is the same age as Bargnani. So Chicago is several steps ahead of where Toronto should be. I hope Bargnani continues to play well when he's 29/30 so that when we do turn the corner he can keep up. I'd also be interested to know how Bargnani reacts if he was no longer the #1 option on offense. When he was paired up with Bosh (although not in his 'natural position') his consistency dropped on offense - but there could be a lot of factors why he has improved this year.

                Perhaps now is not the right time to trade him then. Perhaps there is no time to trade him. We could just see what he's like at the end of his contract in 4 years when he turns 30.

                When I think of a player who has peaked, I think of someone who is ready to win now, and not someone who is on a team that is building for the future. Hopefully Bargnani is okay with that - as he's going to be losing his prime years on a crappy team. But on the other hand Bargnani has only given us what we've all asked for him in his 6th year, so if he cries the blues then its more on him than anybody else.

                Comment


                • Apollo wrote: View Post
                  But the Grizzlies didn't sell high. They're not a good example. At the time what they received was viewed as a total fleecing. Sure, now it looks good, but back then they were given a bunch of scraps and luckily out of that Marc Gasol turned out to be one of the best second round prospects of the last decade.
                  Agreed.. I remember at the time absolutely no one thought it was a deal that was in favor of the Grizzlies. Bad example.

                  I don't see why we should trade Bargnani.. I think if we traded him it would never be a trade that would turn out better for the Raptors, so I don't see the point. Plus, he's as consistent a scorer as the Raptors have, and we need all the scoring we can get.

                  Comment


                  • Not to mention that if he maintains his current play he'll probably we worth more at age 29 or 30 than now because he will be established then. If he doesn't maintain then he'll get traded and we won't be talking about him anymore.

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                    • LBF wrote: View Post

                      I would have gotten away with it too

                      another mystery solved!!
                      Jerome Williams is not dumb. I just want to have that on the record before I have to testify to Congress.

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                      • Nilanka wrote: View Post
                        It's been done before (see Memphis trading Pau Gasol). I'm not necessarily saying I agree with the "sell high" mantra...I'm just saying it's not unheard of.
                        I don't think it's a mater of "don't sell high".. As much as "don't sell when he's one if the 2-3 players buying into the new team philosophy the most"

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                        • I have two points to make on Bargnani's current season:

                          1. The sample size is too small at 11 games as I write this, to judge if there's longterm change.
                          2. I am not willing to forgive and forget years of deliberate, systematic underachieving, nor his outrageously large contract.

                          On the latter point, the worst kind of player is the kind that desperately needs to be coached to have any success. Coaches should be basically transparent if you've got the right players. One as good as the other.

                          His contract somewhat precludes the ability to bring in true superstar players. If he'd been on Miami's roster a couple years ago, they wouldn't have been able to sign the Superfriends. So I'd say if he were to be traded for substantial assets and cap relief, good riddance.

                          One other thing that occurs is that if there's to be a true "culture change", it will be necessary to get rid of some of the bad apples from the previous regimes. I'd also include Calderon, DeRozan, Kleiza et al. in that group.

                          Comment


                          • Brandon wrote: View Post
                            I have two points to make on Bargnani's current season:

                            2. I am not willing to forgive and forget years of deliberate, systematic underachieving, nor his outrageously large contract.
                            What is "deliberate" underachieving? The guy comes to a new Country with a new language, a new style of basketball, a new comfort zone... He's finally starting to look like he's not about to pee his pants out on the floor. It's not as if the past few years he's been thinking, "I'm going to go out there and play horribly". He had no confidence. He's finding it.

                            I do agree with the culture change hypothesis, but I don't think shipping out Bargnani is the way to go, especially when he's working hard at all the things we've demanded of him.

                            The contract's really not that bad either, especially if he keeps his game at this level.

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                            • His contract is actually a good when you compare his production to those making around what he makes. The contract isn't the problem and it won't stop him from being moved should that be decided the best thing to do.

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                              • LBF wrote: View Post
                                they also cut out that little thing at the end that used to be on the commercials

                                "everyone knows it's primo" then there was a word it kind of sounded like "grapevine". but, it's not on the commercials anymore. This requires further investigation as it may uncover the bargnani mystery.

                                aha... upon further investigation i have discovered that it was "graywire" at the end of the commercial as in graywire enhancements. You thought we wouldn't find out didn't you!? you damn hairy italians! You've been giving Bargnani steroids because you discovered the root of all his laziness was all the pasta he was eating. So, you decided to put a little something extra in the sauce!!

                                hmm...i always thought it was 'grainwise.'
                                TRUE LOVE - Sometimes you know it the instant you see it across the bar.

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