Everything Bargnani

[Multipaul]

Here's another fun set of stats for Multipaul, because I know he loves to criticize Bosh.

From 82games.com we find that:

Bargnani was on the court for 2799 minutes last season, and Bosh was on the court for 2525.

Of the Raptors' top 20 most used lineups (again according to 82games.com) the Bosh and Bargnani combo features heavily, accounting for 1481.4 total minutes. That means that at least 59% of Bosh's total minutes on the floor were with Bargnani, and that at least 53% of Bargnani's total minutes were played with Bosh.

What's interesting then, is that over the course of the season the Raps were 152 net points better with Bosh on the floor than off, and 164 points WORSE with Bargnani on the floor.

A closer look at the numbers shows that Raps scored 6080 points with Bargs on the floor and allowed 6235, for a net gain of -155. While Bargs was on the bench the team essentially treaded water, scoring 2454 and allowing 2445, for a net gain of +9.

With Bosh on the floor the Raps scored 5509 and allowed 5506 for a +3 net, and while he was on the bench the team suffered greatly, scoring 3025 and allowing 3174 for a painful -149.

Again, these two players played over 50% of their total minutes together, meaning that while they were both on the floor together their net gains would be identical. Now even a casual fan can tell you (and a glance back at the top 20 5-man units will confirm) that one of either Bosh or Bargnani was on the floor nearly every minute of every game in which injuries didn't play a part. So, what to conclude? While Bosh was off the floor and Bargnani was on, things got ugly. Be it from injuries or substitution patterns, Bargnani was NOT able to hold his own and to help his team win basketball games when he didn't have an allstar by his side.

Doesn't exactly bode well for next year, does it?

These stats are so biased and flawed it's not even worth analyzing them.

[heinz57]

Here's another fun set of stats for Multipaul, because I know he loves to criticize Bosh.

From 82games.com we find that:

Bargnani was on the court for 2799 minutes last season, and Bosh was on the court for 2525.

Of the Raptors' top 20 most used lineups (again according to 82games.com) the Bosh and Bargnani combo features heavily, accounting for 1481.4 total minutes. That means that at least 59% of Bosh's total minutes on the floor were with Bargnani, and that at least 53% of Bargnani's total minutes were played with Bosh.

What's interesting then, is that over the course of the season the Raps were 152 net points better with Bosh on the floor than off, and 164 points WORSE with Bargnani on the floor.

A closer look at the numbers shows that Raps scored 6080 points with Bargs on the floor and allowed 6235, for a net gain of -155. While Bargs was on the bench the team essentially treaded water, scoring 2454 and allowing 2445, for a net gain of +9.

With Bosh on the floor the Raps scored 5509 and allowed 5506 for a +3 net, and while he was on the bench the team suffered greatly, scoring 3025 and allowing 3174 for a painful -149.

Again, these two players played over 50% of their total minutes together, meaning that while they were both on the floor together their net gains would be identical. Now even a casual fan can tell you (and a glance back at the top 20 5-man units will confirm) that one of either Bosh or Bargnani was on the floor nearly every minute of every game in which injuries didn't play a part. So, what to conclude? While Bosh was off the floor and Bargnani was on, things got ugly. Be it from injuries or substitution patterns, Bargnani was NOT able to hold his own and to help his team win basketball games when he didn't have an allstar by his side.

Doesn't exactly bode well for next year, does it?

you forgot the most important stat... bosh is +1 dollar since he's too much of a douche to give it to his friend.

and he's +34 in the "getting mistaken for a rejected babylon 5 alien" category.

[Lark Benson]

These stats are so biased and flawed it's not even worth analyzing them.

Again, unless you elaborate and describe WHY, your point is rendered invalid.

I'll certainly agree that it's far from being absolute truth, but of the 3 bigs to take up the majority of the Raps' minutes (ie Bosh, Bargs and Amir), Bargs was the only one of the 3 to have produced in the negative range over the season. In fact Amir was a net +252, better even than Bosh. So given that both Amir and Bosh both managed to consistently play in lineups that either stayed even with or outscored their opponents and Bargs did not, I find it hard to conclude that Bargs had a positive effect on the team.

It's simply further evidence that despite his ability to score, his lack of rebounding production and lack of defensive prowess allowed other teams to gain more possessions and to outscore the team while he was on the floor.

[Multipaul]

Again, unless you elaborate and describe WHY, your point is rendered invalid.

I'll certainly agree that it's far from being absolute truth, but of the 3 bigs to take up the majority of the Raps' minutes (ie Bosh, Bargs and Amir), Bargs was the only one of the 3 to have produced in the negative range over the season. In fact Amir was a net +252, better even than Bosh. So given that both Amir and Bosh both managed to consistently play in lineups that either stayed even with or outscored their opponents and Bargs did not, I find it hard to conclude that Bargs had a positive effect on the team.

It's simply further evidence that despite his ability to score, his lack of rebounding production and lack of defensive prowess allowed other teams to gain more possessions and to outscore the team while he was on the floor.

blah blah blah, dude is our best man on man defender, and right now, our best rebounder. He was also our leading shot blocker, and was able to generate some pretty crucial baskets during crunch time on multiple occassions.

You seriously would rather have amir, bless his heart, on the floor instead of our leader, bargs. Bwa, gimme a break. You shouldn't even be allowed to read stats.

[Lark Benson]

blah blah blah, dude is our best man on man defender, and right now, our best rebounder. He was also our leading shot blocker, and was able to generate some pretty crucial baskets during crunch time on multiple occassions.

You seriously would rather have amir, bless his heart, on the floor instead of our leader, bargs. Bwa, gimme a break. You shouldn't even be allowed to read stats.

/facepalm

1. Bargs got the most total blocks because he played more minutes than Amir. Hell even Rasho averaged more blocks per 36 than Bargs.
2. Ditto with rebounds. Rasho averaged more per 36 than Bargs and Amir would have KILLED Bargs in total boards had he played equivalent minutes.
3. Being the best man on man defender on the Raps is, as someone already put it earlier, like being the smartest kid on the short bus. The team doesn't have a single above average defender. Not one. And frankly I'd put Bargs below Sonny Weems, though that's comparing apples and oranges.
4. You'll notice that Bargs relied on having the ball passed to him in crunch time, as 72% of his buckets listed in 82games' clutch stats were assisted. Gonna be interesting to see what happens when he gets the ball down the stretch in iso situations this year.
5. In no way, shape or form is Bargs the 'leader' of the team. That falls to the two point guards.

Seriously, when you just start responding with 'blah blah blah', you're just coming off as an 11 year old with his hands over his ears. You want to argue like a man, grow a pair and throw out something better than unfounded statements based on personal opinion.

[Multipaul]

That's why he is the best player on our team, he keeps growing his arsenal.

[Multipaul]

/facepalm

1. Bargs got the most total blocks because he played more minutes than Amir. Hell even Rasho averaged more blocks per 36 than Bargs.
2. Ditto with rebounds. Rasho averaged more per 36 than Bargs and Amir would have KILLED Bargs in total boards had he played equivalent minutes.
3. Being the best man on man defender on the Raps is, as someone already put it earlier, like being the smartest kid on the short bus. The team doesn't have a single above average defender. Not one. And frankly I'd put Bargs below Sonny Weems, though that's comparing apples and oranges.
4. You'll notice that Bargs relied on having the ball passed to him in crunch time, as 72% of his buckets listed in 82games' clutch stats were assisted. Gonna be interesting to see what happens when he gets the ball down the stretch in iso situations this year.
5. In no way, shape or form is Bargs the 'leader' of the team. That falls to the two point guards.

Seriously, when you just start responding with 'blah blah blah', you're just coming off as an 11 year old with his hands over his ears. You want to argue like a man, grow a pair and throw out something better than unfounded statements based on personal opinion.

Dude, ur whole argument is based on "personal opinion", for example: "frankly I'd put Bargs below Sonny Weems", "Amir would have KILLED Bargs", etc etc

That whole last post was your opinion. This is the Bargs World Order Appreciation Thread- why are you trying to make it the "Lark Benson Hates the Raptors Except for Amir" thread?

If you had watched the games you would have realized Rasho barely played last year, and that making references to the "short bus" is more childish and immature than anything I said to you.

[vinnie_paz]

Here's another fun set of stats for Multipaul, because I know he loves to criticize Bosh.

From 82games.com we find that:

Bargnani was on the court for 2799 minutes last season, and Bosh was on the court for 2525.

Of the Raptors' top 20 most used lineups (again according to 82games.com) the Bosh and Bargnani combo features heavily, accounting for 1481.4 total minutes. That means that at least 59% of Bosh's total minutes on the floor were with Bargnani, and that at least 53% of Bargnani's total minutes were played with Bosh.

What's interesting then, is that over the course of the season the Raps were 152 net points better with Bosh on the floor than off, and 164 points WORSE with Bargnani on the floor.

A closer look at the numbers shows that Raps scored 6080 points with Bargs on the floor and allowed 6235, for a net gain of -155. While Bargs was on the bench the team essentially treaded water, scoring 2454 and allowing 2445, for a net gain of +9.

With Bosh on the floor the Raps scored 5509 and allowed 5506 for a +3 net, and while he was on the bench the team suffered greatly, scoring 3025 and allowing 3174 for a painful -149.

Again, these two players played over 50% of their total minutes together, meaning that while they were both on the floor together their net gains would be identical. Now even a casual fan can tell you (and a glance back at the top 20 5-man units will confirm) that one of either Bosh or Bargnani was on the floor nearly every minute of every game in which injuries didn't play a part. So, what to conclude? While Bosh was off the floor and Bargnani was on, things got ugly. Be it from injuries or substitution patterns, Bargnani was NOT able to hold his own and to help his team win basketball games when he didn't have an allstar by his side.

Doesn't exactly bode well for next year, does it?

its posts like this that make visiting RR worthwhile.

[Lark Benson]

Dude, ur whole argument is based on "personal opinion", for example: "frankly I'd put Bargs below Sonny Weems", "Amir would have KILLED Bargs", etc etc

That whole last post was your opinion. This is the Bargs World Order Appreciation Thread- why are you trying to make it the "Lark Benson Hates the Raptors Except for Amir" thread?

If you had watched the games you would have realized Rasho barely played last year, and that making references to the "short bus" is more childish and immature than anything I said to you.

You're kidding me right? My arguments have been entirely based on stats. You're right about the Sonny Weems bit, but just about everything else I posted can be backed up, including Amir outrebounding Bargs with more minutes, which is based on boards per 36 (9.8 to 6.3 in favour of Amir). Also Rasho not having played much is irrelevant, again I was making a comment on per 36 stats. Hell, my short bus comment wasn't even directed at you, it was directed at the team, so I fail to see how that's less mature than dismissing my arguments with 'blah blah blah' and 'you shouldn't even be allowed to read stats'. It's like you're not even reading what I'm writing, you just dismiss it because you don't like the conclusion.

You've still yet to post anything other than a bunch of opinions that have no credibility. If you want to show me WHY I should appreciate Bargnani's limited contributions to the team, then it's about time you step up and do so.

[Multipaul]

You're kidding me right? My arguments have been entirely based on stats. You're right about the Sonny Weems bit, but just about everything else I posted can be backed up, including Amir outrebounding Bargs with more minutes, which is based on boards per 36 (9.8 to 6.3 in favour of Amir). Also Rasho not having played much is irrelevant, again I was making a comment on per 36 stats. Hell, my short bus comment wasn't even directed at you, it was directed at the team, so I fail to see how that's less mature than dismissing my arguments with 'blah blah blah' and 'you shouldn't even be allowed to read stats'. It's like you're not even reading what I'm writing, you just dismiss it because you don't like the conclusion.

You've still yet to post anything other than a bunch of opinions that have no credibility. If you want to show me WHY I should appreciate Bargnani's limited contributions to the team, then it's about time you step up and do so.

exactly

bargs is our best player statistically, and is our leader.

when u make ur amir and rasho appreciation thread i will support you, brother

[Lark Benson]

exactly

bargs is our best player statistically, and is our leader.

I just don't even know what to say to this. Either you can't read, you're high, or you're a troll.

[Buddahfan]

Don't be a hater man

http://nspyouth.org/winston.html

I know who Winston is

I am looking for a link to them stats

I doubt that you have them.

Put up or hush up

[vinnie_paz]

so ironic that the "bargnani appreciation thread" turned into the "bargnani is worse than we thought" thread.

[CB4]

exactly

bargs is our best player statistically, and is our leader.

when u make ur amir and rasho appreciation thread i will support you, brother

Since when was Bargnani a leader?

[vinnie_paz]

Don't be a hater man

http://nspyouth.org/winston.html

this link has nothing to do with bargnani or even anything related to the raptors or basketball.

ughh multipaul... does your nanny know you're using the computer ?