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  • Tim W. wrote: View Post
    As for guys 6'10 and taller with a pure stroke in the NBA: Okur, Antawn Jamison, Troy Murphy, Rashard Lewis, Channing Frye, Vladimir Radmanovic and, of course, Dirk, and that's just off the top of my head. Learning how to shoot the 3 well is much easier to do than to learn how to play really good defense. There are far more examples of players who couldn't shoot, but learn to, than bad defensive players who become good ones. There's a reason for that.
    I wouldn't put Antawn and Channing Frye in there. Antawn is bleh and Frye had a fluke year. Next year he won't average more than 10 points a game and won't shoot higher than 35% from the 3. He shot like what 10 threes before last year?

    Comment


    • JoePanini wrote: View Post
      Lead them there with his offence though. And because they were a shitty defensive team, they would go on to getting swept in every game. You can escape and slip your way into the play-offs through good offence in the regular season, but once in the post season, defence is a little bit more important. Even with 50 wins, going 0-12 isn't too great...
      Uh, they weren't a shitty defensive team. They were middle of the pack at worst. And considering that Gasol never averaged more than 20.8 ppg, it's hard to say he lead them to 50 wins and 3 straight playoff appearances with his offense. As for the playoffs, that's another story. Of course it didn't help that they faced San Antonio, who were the defending Champions, Phoenix, who went on to the Conference Finals, and Dallas, who went on to the Finals. That probably had something to do with it.
      Read my blog, The Picket Fence. Guaranteed to make you think or your money back!
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      • JoePanini wrote: View Post
        Kleiza or Amir. You always post up stats of Amir, I think you might have a thing for him HAHA LOL
        I have never really explained by thing for Amir. I have tried to write it out a couple of times but I just gave up up somewhere around the mid 80s. - I will explain that below

        1. He plays in the NBA and is from Los Angeles so that automatically puts him on my favorite basketball list.
        2. I was an accountant before I retired so I am into numbers. Amir eats advanced stats so I find that aspect of his game really interesting
        3. He is an exciting player to watch play

        Lastly and I think most importantly is for me he will always be the "Last Pistons Player"

        I followed the Pistons for over 50 season, which is a hell of a long time to follow any team, and even living in Los Angeles they were always my favorite NBA basketball team ever since G. Yardley won the NBA scoring title and in the process became the first NBA player ever to score 2,000 points in one season.

        So my love affair with the Pistons was indeed long with a lot of ups and downs. Unfortunately mostly downs. Well enough of that for here.

        The point being is that when Amir was initially drafted he became an instant favorite of almost all Pistons fans. Then on Apr 18, 2007 at the age of just 20 he got a chance to play some real minutes for the Pistons for the first time. As I recall it was his first NBA game in which he played over 30 minutes

        His line was.

        Min-----37
        Pts-----20
        Reb-----12
        Blocks---4
        Steals---3

        Even though it was against the horrible Celtics and the Pistons last regular season game of the year it was as exciting as all get out. The Pistons won by two points 91-89

        So all Pistons fans had high hopes for him. Things never worked out in Detroit. After 50 plus years of being a Pistons fan I finally divorced them for a number of reasons.

        Too make a very long story short. I have never felt that Amir was given the proper coaching in Detroit and never a fair opportunity to develop. He now has been given both of those in Toronto. It is up to him to take advantage. He has no more excuses. Seriously.

        Game Recap.

        Murray hit the winning shot just before the buzzer and Amir Johnson set career highs with 20 points and 12 rebounds, leading the Pistons to a 91-89 win over the Boston Celtics in the season finale for both teams on Wednesday night....

        Johnson, a second-year forward who spent much of the past two years in the NBDL, took advantage of rare playing time, shooting 10-of-14 and blocking four shots.

        Johnson’s 10 third-quarter points helped Detroit outscore Boston 24-18 and erase a 49-45 halftime deficit.

        “He’s spectacular,” Saunders said. “He does things that you can’t teach. That’s why at 20 years old, he has such a huge upside.”
        http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/boxscore...gid=2007041802

        Then in the fall of 2007 he was playing well in pre-season and expected to be a key part of Saunders rotation. Unfortunately he sprained his ankle pretty badly at the end of the pre-season.

        By the time he fully recovered from the injury it was already Jan. At which time Saunders made him a part of the "Zoo Crew" unit. The Zoo Crew led by Johnson and Stuckey went on to become the best second unit statistically in the NBA that season in terms of +/-.

        Needless to say Pistons fans everywhere were excited about Johnson's future going into 08-09 despite his foul problem. To end the story here. Curry did start off the year with Johnson in the starting lineup and he played pretty well considering for the first two games. Then Billups got traded and Iverson replaced him. That was the beginning to what turned out to be just an awful year for Johnson exacerbated to a very large degree by the way that Curry handled the Pistons and Johnson in particular.

        Then Johnson wound up in Toronto and another ankle injury, this time to Reggie, had a significant impact on Johnson's career. Then Bosh went down in April and left Toronto.

        So we shall see if Johnson can man up and take advantage of this incredible opportunity for him.
        Last edited by Buddahfan; Thu Sep 2, 2010, 01:25 PM.
        Avatar: Riverboat Coffee House 134 Yorkville Ave. billboard of upcoming entertainers - Circa 1960s

        Memories some so sweet, indeed

        Larger Photo of the avatar



        “As a captain, I played furiously. I drew a lot of fouls, but I brought everything I had to every practice and to every game. I left everything on the court because I simply wanted the team to win”
        Quote from well known personality who led their high school team to a state championship.

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        • Tim W. wrote: View Post
          Uh, they weren't a shitty defensive team. They were middle of the pack at worst. And considering that Gasol never averaged more than 20.8 ppg, it's hard to say he lead them to 50 wins and 3 straight playoff appearances with his offense. As for the playoffs, that's another story. Of course it didn't help that they faced San Antonio, who were the defending Champions, Phoenix, who went on to the Conference Finals, and Dallas, who went on to the Finals. That probably had something to do with it.
          Gasol offence is great, you can't deny me that! :P His post game is so good. But yeah, okay maybe they weren't shit. But certainly not good. And still, 0-12 is still bad, no matter against who. But okay, fair enough. But Gasol improved drastically since moving to LA.

          Comment


          • JoePanini wrote: View Post
            I wouldn't put Antawn and Channing Frye in there. Antawn is bleh and Frye had a fluke year. Next year he won't average more than 10 points a game and won't shoot higher than 35% from the 3. He shot like what 10 threes before last year?
            The fact that both players came into the league with no 3 point shot and became above average shooters from that range is something that is important. Jamison has a .347 career average, hit for .400 and .397 during his career. Channing Frye hit for .439 last season, which is better than Bargnani's best season. No, he didn't shoot the three before that, but going 172 for 392 over an entire season is a little more than fluke. The guy obviously learned how to shoot the three, which backs up my point.
            Read my blog, The Picket Fence. Guaranteed to make you think or your money back!
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            • Buddahfan wrote: View Post
              I have never really explained by thing for Amir. I have tried to write it out a couple of times but I just gave up up somewhere around the mid 80s. - I will explain that below

              1. He plays in the NBA and is from Los Angeles so that automatically puts him on my favorite basketball list.
              2. I was an accountant before I retired so I am into numbers. Amir eats advanced stats so I find that aspect of his game really interesting
              3. He is an exciting player to watch play

              Lastly and I think most importantly is for me he will always be the "Last Pistons Player"

              I followed the Pistons for over 50 season, which is a hell of a long time to follow any team, and even living in Los Angeles they were always my favorite NBA basketball team ever since G. Yardley won the NBA scoring title and in the process became the first NBA player ever to score 2,000 points in one season.

              So my love affair with the Pistons was indeed long with a lot of ups and downs. Unfortunately mostly downs. Well enough of that for here.

              The point being is that when Amir was initially drafted he became an instant favorite of almost all Pistons fans. Then on Apr 18, 2007 at the age of just 20 he got a chance to play some real minutes for the Pistons for the first time. As I recall it was his first NBA game in which he played over 30 minutes

              His line was.

              Min-----37
              Pts-----20
              Reb-----12
              Blocks---4
              Steals---3

              Even though it was against the horrible Celtics and the Pistons last regular season game of the year it was as exciting as all get out. The Pistons won by two points 91-89

              So all Pistons fans had high hopes for him. Things never worked out in Detroit. After 50 plus years of being a Pistons fan I finally divorced them for a number of reasons.

              Too make a very long story short. I have never felt that Amir was given the proper coaching in Detroit and never a fair opportunity to develop. He now has been given both of those in Toronto. It is up to him to take advantage. He has no more excuses. Seriously.

              Game Recap.



              http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/boxscore...gid=2007041802
              You take research to a whole new level. How did you find that game?! HAHA. I never liked him, but that's cause I have a theory and it's that players who are talented but play small minutes, always have inflated stats. But when they play a consistent amount of minutes above 25 mpg they play alot worse. Because let's say you play 10 minutes a game, manage 4 and 4. Then you go on a streak of 10 consecutive games where you play 35 minutes. And in that stretch you average 16 and 10. Your stats will look really great... But I hope Amir does really well this year, and makes us forget about some guy who averaged 24 and 10 who played at his place

              Comment


              • Tim W. wrote: View Post
                The fact that both players came into the league with no 3 point shot and became above average shooters from that range is something that is important. Jamison has a .347 career average, hit for .400 and .397 during his career. Channing Frye hit for .439 last season, which is better than Bargnani's best season. No, he didn't shoot the three before that, but going 172 for 392 over an entire season is a little more than fluke. The guy obviously learned how to shoot the three, which backs up my point.
                Yeah, what players would do to stay in the league... But towards the end of the season Frye sucked, and started over shooting the three. But in the beginning he was hitting over 50% or just under... But I don't think he can replicate that next year... But he'll still score over 100 3s. Yeah, but Bargs wasn't allowed to shoot that many three's (frye would shoot loads, he would hit them though, but still! :P)... But I still feel more assured when Bargs goes for a three than when Frye does, don't know why...

                Comment


                • JoePanini wrote: View Post
                  You take research to a whole new level. How did you find that game?! HAHA. I never liked him, but that's cause I have a theory and it's that players who are talented but play small minutes, always have inflated stats. But when they play a consistent amount of minutes above 25 mpg they play alot worse. Because let's say you play 10 minutes a game, manage 4 and 4. Then you go on a streak of 10 consecutive games where you play 35 minutes. And in that stretch you average 16 and 10. Your stats will look really great... But I hope Amir does really well this year, and makes us forget about some guy who averaged 24 and 10 who played at his place
                  Every NBA game for every NBA current roster player is listed in Yahoo under "game log".

                  I didn't to find the game. I knew about it when it happened.

                  We shall see.

                  He has to stay on the court
                  Avatar: Riverboat Coffee House 134 Yorkville Ave. billboard of upcoming entertainers - Circa 1960s

                  Memories some so sweet, indeed

                  Larger Photo of the avatar



                  “As a captain, I played furiously. I drew a lot of fouls, but I brought everything I had to every practice and to every game. I left everything on the court because I simply wanted the team to win”
                  Quote from well known personality who led their high school team to a state championship.

                  Comment


                  • JoePanini wrote: View Post
                    Gasol offence is great, you can't deny me that! :P His post game is so good. But yeah, okay maybe they weren't shit. But certainly not good. And still, 0-12 is still bad, no matter against who. But okay, fair enough. But Gasol improved drastically since moving to LA.
                    Why do you say that? How much did you watch him in Memphis? What improved was people's perception of him because he suddenly went to a winning team. Remember how upset the rest of the league was when the Lakers traded for Pau. It wasn't because he was a below average defensive player.

                    And the year they won 50 games, Memphis was middle of the pack both in FG% allowed and points given up. Two years later they were one of the better defensive teams in the league, tops in points given up and 6th in FG% allowed. The next season Gasol was traded to the Lakers.

                    I don't mean to be blunt, but do you even know what you're talking about in discussing Memphis and Gasol? Your original assertion that Memphis was a bad defensive team is simply not even close to the truth and I don't think you watched much of Gasol when he was in Memphis.

                    A lot of the defense of Bargnani has been pointing out guys who have made big improvements in defense (whether real or imagined) and saying that Bargnani could make just as big an improvement. In other words, many of you seem to be banking on lottery-like odds and talking about them as if it's a sure thing. Yes, Bargnani could make a drastic improvement on defense. It's not out of the realm of possibility. Of course, the same odds say that Amir Johnson could become a 20-10 player, Jarrett Jack could be a top five assist man, and the Raptors could win 50 games next season. None of that is out of the realm of possibility, but it's highly unlikely.
                    Read my blog, The Picket Fence. Guaranteed to make you think or your money back!
                    Follow me on Twitter.

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                    • Tim W. wrote: View Post
                      Why do you say that? How much did you watch him in Memphis? What improved was people's perception of him because he suddenly went to a winning team. Remember how upset the rest of the league was when the Lakers traded for Pau. It wasn't because he was a below average defensive player.

                      And the year they won 50 games, Memphis was middle of the pack both in FG% allowed and points given up. Two years later they were one of the better defensive teams in the league, tops in points given up and 6th in FG% allowed. The next season Gasol was traded to the Lakers.

                      I don't mean to be blunt, but do you even know what you're talking about in discussing Memphis and Gasol? Your original assertion that Memphis was a bad defensive team is simply not even close to the truth and I don't think you watched much of Gasol when he was in Memphis.

                      A lot of the defense of Bargnani has been pointing out guys who have made big improvements in defense (whether real or imagined) and saying that Bargnani could make just as big an improvement. In other words, many of you seem to be banking on lottery-like odds and talking about them as if it's a sure thing. Yes, Bargnani could make a drastic improvement on defense. It's not out of the realm of possibility. Of course, the same odds say that Amir Johnson could become a 20-10 player, Jarrett Jack could be a top five assist man, and the Raptors could win 50 games next season. None of that is out of the realm of possibility, but it's highly unlikely.
                      Actually, I have no idea where this discussion is going LOL. How did Gasol and Memphis pop out here? :/ HAHA. Well no way Bargs will become like Pau, plus Pau was already really good (20-10 pretty much in his whole career in memphis) so yeah. We close this, cause it's leading no where. LOL.
                      I was wondering, Pau was a PF right?

                      Comment


                      • Tim W. wrote: View Post
                        Why do you say that? How much did you watch him in Memphis? What improved was people's perception of him because he suddenly went to a winning team. Remember how upset the rest of the league was when the Lakers traded for Pau. It wasn't because he was a below average defensive player.

                        And the year they won 50 games, Memphis was middle of the pack both in FG% allowed and points given up. Two years later they were one of the better defensive teams in the league, tops in points given up and 6th in FG% allowed. The next season Gasol was traded to the Lakers.

                        I don't mean to be blunt, but do you even know what you're talking about in discussing Memphis and Gasol? Your original assertion that Memphis was a bad defensive team is simply not even close to the truth and I don't think you watched much of Gasol when he was in Memphis.

                        A lot of the defense of Bargnani has been pointing out guys who have made big improvements in defense (whether real or imagined) and saying that Bargnani could make just as big an improvement. In other words, many of you seem to be banking on lottery-like odds and talking about them as if it's a sure thing. Yes, Bargnani could make a drastic improvement on defense. It's not out of the realm of possibility. Of course, the same odds say that Amir Johnson could become a 20-10 player, Jarrett Jack could be a top five assist man, and the Raptors could win 50 games next season. None of that is out of the realm of possibility, but it's highly unlikely.
                        Actually, I have no idea where this discussion is going LOL. How did Gasol and Memphis pop out here? :/ HAHA. Well no way Bargs will become like Pau, plus Pau was already really good (20-10 pretty much in his whole career in memphis) so yeah. We close this, cause it's leading no where. LOL.
                        I was wondering, Pau was a PF right?

                        Comment


                        • JoePanini wrote: View Post
                          Actually, I have no idea where this discussion is going LOL. How did Gasol and Memphis pop out here? :/ HAHA. Well no way Bargs will become like Pau, plus Pau was already really good (20-10 pretty much in his whole career in memphis) so yeah. We close this, cause it's leading no where. LOL.
                          I was wondering, Pau was a PF right?
                          Pau's name was brought up because whoever it was felt he was an example of a player who went from a bad defensive player in Memphis to a good one with the Lakers, apparently predicting a similar path for Bargnani. Unfortunately the premise was flawed since Gasol wasn't the bad defender in Memphis some thought.

                          And Gasol played center in Memphis, which was the problem, defensively. He simply wasn't physically strong enough to defend the position well against the bigger, stronger centers. When he moved to PF with the Lakers, it took more advantage of his strengths on defense.
                          Read my blog, The Picket Fence. Guaranteed to make you think or your money back!
                          Follow me on Twitter.

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                          • Tim W. wrote: View Post
                            Pau's name was brought up because whoever it was felt he was an example of a player who went from a bad defensive player in Memphis to a good one with the Lakers, apparently predicting a similar path for Bargnani. Unfortunately the premise was flawed since Gasol wasn't the bad defender in Memphis some thought.

                            And Gasol played center in Memphis, which was the problem, defensively. He simply wasn't physically strong enough to defend the position well against the bigger, stronger centers. When he moved to PF with the Lakers, it took more advantage of his strengths on defense.
                            I have watched probably ever game he has played with the Lakers since he came to them and it appears to me that he has gotten stronger, probably primarily in his base and legs. He had a lot of trouble with the stronger bigs in his first season. Last season he did a lot better against the stronger bigs in holding his position and being able to back them down.
                            Avatar: Riverboat Coffee House 134 Yorkville Ave. billboard of upcoming entertainers - Circa 1960s

                            Memories some so sweet, indeed

                            Larger Photo of the avatar



                            “As a captain, I played furiously. I drew a lot of fouls, but I brought everything I had to every practice and to every game. I left everything on the court because I simply wanted the team to win”
                            Quote from well known personality who led their high school team to a state championship.

                            Comment


                            • Buddahfan wrote: View Post

                              I followed the Pistons for over 50 season, which is a hell of a long time to follow any team, and even living in Los Angeles they were always my favorite NBA basketball team ever since G. Yardley won the NBA scoring title and in the process became the first NBA player ever to score 2,000 points in one season.

                              So my love affair with the Pistons was indeed long with a lot of ups and downs. Unfortunately mostly downs. Well enough of that for here.




                              I am 30 years old. If the Toronto Raptors ever enjoy the amount of success that the Pistons have in my lifetime, I will die a happy man. (Hopefully some other good stuff happens to me in that period of time also... lol)

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                              • Nick wrote: View Post
                                Laughable. Do you understand what 7 foot centre who can stroke threes does to offences? Why the hell are Raptors fans so against Andrea?! Alls I keep hearing "I don't want him because he dosn't play defence." Get real! What players on the Raps did play defence????????? But ya lets single out Bargs, good strategy! You guys are all star basketball fans (huge thumb down)

                                +100

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