Page 1 of 5 1 2 3 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 81

Thread: For the people that think DeRozan is overpaid

  1. #1
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    744
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default For the people that think DeRozan is overpaid

    Gordon Hayward and the Utah Jazz are expected to agree to an extension before the Oct. 31 deadline.

    Hayward's deal is likely to be more lucrative than the four-year, $49 million extension teammate Derrick Favors signed last week.

    Hayward has a lot of admirers in front offices around the NBA and would be a highly coveted restricted free agent target if a deal is not reached.
    http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/230320/Hayward-Likely-To-Get-$50M+-Extension-From-Jazz


    That's the going rate for young, talented wing players these days. We saw Tyreke get 11M a year, now we're seeing Hayward get 12+. That 9.5M for DeRozan is starting to actually look like somewhat of a bargain.

    I'm sure people are now going to try and argue that either:

    a.) Hayward is significantly better than DeRozan
    b.) Hayward is also significantly overpaid, and we shouldn't use other bad contracts to justify our own.

  2. #2
    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    5,957
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Why start a thread if you know there's nothing new to be discussed?
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

  3. Like Blacklash2k4 liked this post
  4. #3
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    744
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Nilanka wrote: View Post
    Why start a thread if you know there's nothing new to be discussed?
    Why respond to a thread if you have nothing to contribute?

  5. Like enlightenment, rocwell liked this post
  6. #4
    Raptors Republic All-Star slaw's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Calgary
    Posts
    2,095
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Xixak wrote: View Post
    b.) Hayward is also significantly overpaid, and we shouldn't use other bad contracts to justify our own.
    Why dismiss that argument? Isn't it a legitimate one? If Bobby jumps off a cliff and survives it doesn't mean it's a good idea to jump off a cliff.

    All comps tell us is how the comparable market is treating similar situations. They aren't necessarily "correct" in the normative sense. The real questions: are the Raptors getting enough out of Derozan to justify his deal? Could they be getting more bang for the buck if they took his $9 million elsewhere? Unfortunately, we can't answer the first question until he's played at least one season under the new deal and the second question is probably impossible to answer with certainty.

  7. Like Fully liked this post
  8. #5
    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    5,957
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Xixak wrote: View Post
    Why respond to a thread if you have nothing to contribute?
    The contribution was indirectly asking why we need yet another DeRozan is god/DeRozan sucks thread...
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

  9. Like Axel liked this post
  10. #6
    Raptors Republic Superstar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Richmond Hill, ON
    Posts
    2,800
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Xixak wrote: View Post
    Why respond to a thread if you have nothing to contribute?
    Why is so important for you to prove that Demar isn't overpaid? Do you have that much of an ego? We get it. You don't think he's overpaid. I agree with Nilanka. Why start a thread on a topic that has already been beat to death since he got the contract? Enough with the "Demar's Contract isn't Overpaid" threads...

  11. Like mcHAPPY, ebrian, Axel liked this post
  12. #7
    Raptors Republic Rookie GoldenBaller's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    New Brunswick
    Posts
    151
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    You mean "for the people who KNOW derozan is overpaid"

  13. #8
    Raptors Republic All-Star
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    1,110
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Xixak wrote: View Post
    I'm sure people are now going to try and argue that either:

    a.) Hayward is significantly better than DeRozan
    b.) Hayward is also significantly overpaid, and we shouldn't use other bad contracts to justify our own.
    Well, yes. I do think Utah is overpaying for both him and Favors. Compare against Steph Curry (11 million a year). Is Gordon Hayward as good as Steph Curry? Hell no. He's not even as good as Ty Lawson ($11.5 large a year). Hayward's more in the Brandon Jennings/Jeff Teague range ($8m per year).

    I mean, I get it: Utah is convinced they have their young core of the future and they want to lock them down because absolutely nobody says "gee, I wanna play in Utah." And Hayward at least played starter minutes last year so they know what he can do. But Favors is simply a bit of a gamble: Utah knows they can be outbid if he turns out to be the real deal, so they want to commit him to the team before the Lakers or the Rockets start giving come-hither looks. But there's that "if" because he's never had starter minutes.

  14. #9
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    744
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Blacklash2k4 wrote: View Post
    Why is so important for you to prove that Demar isn't overpaid? Do you have that much of an ego? We get it. You don't think he's overpaid. I agree with Nilanka. Why start a thread on a topic that has already been beat to death since he got the contract? Enough with the "Demar's Contract isn't Overpaid" threads...
    There's nothing telling you to enter this thread. Stay out and post in a different one or log out of the forum.

  15. Like enlightenment liked this post
  16. #10
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    19,258
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Xixak wrote: View Post
    There's nothing telling you to enter this thread. Stay out and post in a different one or log out of the forum.
    I find this quite hypocritical considering the lashings I took this summer from people, including yourself, who did not care to hear my opinion. Just saying.
    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
    Tim Leiweke

    Basketball has clear winners every night --
    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

  17. Like Blacklash2k4, ebrian, Axel liked this post
  18. #11
    Raptors Republic Starter
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    503
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    If to play the devils advocate Hayward is solid, with more usage, without a ball stoper like Big Al cloging the paint and an overall bigger role he can average 18 4 4, on good percentages, he also plays solid defense and overal his potential all around skillset can make that contract look decent

  19. #12
    Raptors Republic Starter
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    503
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    If to play the devils advocate Hayward is solid, with more usage, without a ball stoper like Big Al cloging the paint and an overall bigger role he can average 18 4 4, on good percentages, he also plays solid defense and overal his all around skillset can make that contract look decent, if he plays to his full potential

  20. #13
    Raptors Republic All-Star
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Posts
    1,198
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Hayward is better than DeMar. He is better on both ends of the floor.

    Still, 12 mil seems too much at this point because there are times when he's very inconsistent, and that's one of the reasons (the other being questionable coaching/plan) why his minutes have been all over the place.

    I guess if he managed to play 35+ minutes a game with the same production, I'd consider him a 12 mil player. Right now I think he's an under 10 mil player.

    I know these $ numbers seem odd right now because this is a relatively unproven rookie who had one really good year and still has flaws. I see the same discussion every summer, year after year, different players. In a year, we'll be gasping at how Jimmy Butler got 10 mil a year. But, young above average starters get paid.

  21. Like Axel liked this post
  22. #14
    Raptors Republic All-Star
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Posts
    1,198
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote magoon wrote: View Post
    Well, yes. I do think Utah is overpaying for both him and Favors. Compare against Steph Curry (11 million a year). Is Gordon Hayward as good as Steph Curry? Hell no. He's not even as good as Ty Lawson ($11.5 large a year). Hayward's more in the Brandon Jennings/Jeff Teague range ($8m per year).

    I mean, I get it: Utah is convinced they have their young core of the future and they want to lock them down because absolutely nobody says "gee, I wanna play in Utah." And Hayward at least played starter minutes last year so they know what he can do. But Favors is simply a bit of a gamble: Utah knows they can be outbid if he turns out to be the real deal, so they want to commit him to the team before the Lakers or the Rockets start giving come-hither looks. But there's that "if" because he's never had starter minutes.
    Steph Curry's salary has something to do with him missing most of the season right before he signed that contract.

  23. #15
    Raptors Republic All-Star ezz_bee's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Kigali, Rwanda
    Posts
    1,677
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    It seems like i'm flip-flopping here, because i have been very critical of Demar. Mainly, i've argued that we won't see that much from him that we've haven't seen already, but I've also been critical of his contract.

    Derozan's contract kicks in this year.
    9.5 in 2013-2014
    9.5 in 2014-2015
    9.5 in 2015-2016
    9.5 in 2016-2017 (I believe it's a player option, which i assume he WON"T) pick up.

    I think 9.5mil in 2015-2015 is going to be pretty good, and 9.5 in 2015-2016 is going to be VERY GOOD. So basically, you got one year of slightly overpaid, 1 year of fair market value, and a 1 year at below market prices. The other thing with Demar that people (including myself) OVERLOOK when when comparing salaries is minutes played/durability. Demar has been extremely durable. I'm not sure he's missed a game since he started becoming a regular starter. If you were to break down what he's paid into actual game time minutes, demar would be paid less/minute played versus pretty much anyone, which would increase his value.

    All in all, I don't think there's a lot to complain about with demar's contract. And I'm very confident that two years from now, no one is going to complain about it (unless there's a serious injuriy, which would seem unlikely). Demar contract is absolutely fine.


    His defense and 3 pt shooting is another matter, but even if Demar doesn't improve those things (and he almost certainly WON"T) he is not overpaid for the bulk of this contract.
    Last edited by ezz_bee; Mon Oct 21st, 2013 at 04:43 PM.
    "We only have one rule on this team. What is that rule? E.L.E. That's right's, E.L.E, and what does E.L.E. stand for? EVERYBODY LOVE EVERYBODY. Right there up on the wall, because this isn't just a basketball team, this is a lifestyle. ~ Jackie Moon

  24. #16
    Super Moderator CalgaryRapsFan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Posts
    4,286
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Xixak wrote: View Post
    There's nothing telling you to enter this thread. Stay out and post in a different one or log out of the forum.
    Take it easy and tone down your reactions to other posters. You started a thread on a topic that has already been beat to death, starting with another talking point for one side of the argument. Just as you are allowed to have an opinion, so are others. I don't want to see any more snark from you against posts that disagree with your post/thread.

  25. #17
    Raptors Republic Starter S.R.'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    709
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    DeMar's contract is not that bad in and of itself. The problem is that the team is capped out and hasn't made the playoffs yet. They have to trim the excess somewhere, even if some contracts are in the "slightly overpaid but still excusable" range.

  26. #18
    Raptors Republic All-Star ezz_bee's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Kigali, Rwanda
    Posts
    1,677
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote S.R. wrote: View Post
    DeMar's contract is not that bad in and of itself. The problem is that the team is capped out and hasn't made the playoffs yet. They have to trim the excess somewhere, even if some contracts are in the "slightly overpaid but still excusable" range.
    I agree with this philosophy, but I think Demar will be a VALUE contract by trade deadline next year, which complicates the rational. If you've got a value contract, but are lacking in talent, do you trade your value contract for more talent but lower value, or do you keep the value contract... I think derozan will only fit in the "slightly overpaid but still excusable" range for this year, which means you may not want to trade him.
    "We only have one rule on this team. What is that rule? E.L.E. That's right's, E.L.E, and what does E.L.E. stand for? EVERYBODY LOVE EVERYBODY. Right there up on the wall, because this isn't just a basketball team, this is a lifestyle. ~ Jackie Moon

  27. #19
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    19,258
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote ezz_bee wrote: View Post
    It seems like i'm flip-flopping here, because i have been very critical of Demar. Mainly, i've argued that we won't see that much from him that we've haven't seen already, but I've also been critical of his contract.

    Derozan's contract kicks in this year.
    9.5 in 2013-2014
    9.5 in 2014-2015
    9.5 in 2015-2016
    9.5 in 2016-2017 (I believe it's a player option, which i assume he WON"T) pick up.

    I think 9.5mil in 2015-2015 is going to be pretty good, and 9.5 in 2015-2016 is going to be VERY GOOD. So basically, you got one year of slightly overpaid, 1 year of fair market value, and a 1 year at below market prices. The other thing with Demar that people (including myself) OVERLOOK when when comparing salaries is minutes played/durability. Demar has been extremely durable. I'm not sure he's missed a game since he started becoming a regular starter. If you were to break down what he's paid into actual game time minutes, demar would be paid less/minute played versus pretty much anyone, which would increase his value.

    All in all, I don't think there's a lot to complain about with demar's contract. And I'm very confident that two years from now, no one is going to complain about it (unless there's a serious injuriy, which would seem unlikely). Demar contract is absolutely fine.


    His defense and 3 pt shooting is another matter, but even if Demar doesn't improve those things (and he almost certainly WON"T) he is not overpaid for the bulk of this contract.
    This contract was offered much in the same manner of Amir, Calderon, and Bargnani.

    We have to remember 2 things:
    1) DeMar has not played on his new contract yet.
    2) DeMar was offered his contract before his 4th year began.

    My opinion is he is not worth the contract. There are a lot of volume shooters who do little else in the league and there are not many of them making $9.5M - but again, see #1 above.

    So maybe DeRozan makes the contract look like a great move like Amir did.
    Maybe the contract becomes a noose like Calderon's did for a few seasons.
    Or maybe it is a total fail like Bargnani's.
    There is always a risk when you are extrapolating potential a few seasons out.
    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
    Tim Leiweke

    Basketball has clear winners every night --
    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

  28. #20
    Raptors Republic Starter
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Etobicoke
    Posts
    981
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    I think an angle that hasn't been considered yet (sorry, I stopped reading after all the petty insults :P) is Greg Monroe vs. Derrick Favors. Monroe is not receiving an extension, and will become a restricted free agent. Favors received an extension with several incentives to push it over the $50M mark. It will be interesting to see what kind of contract Monroe gets next year in comparison to Favors.

    This parallels the DeRozan situation because we didn't have to offer him an extension, and could have made him an RFA a la Monroe. We can't necessarily compare a big to a guard, but we can compare Monroe to Favors and perhaps extrapolate the percentage difference between the two contracts to DeRozan's. This assumes both Monroe and Favors are at least on a comparable value scale in the NBA, which I believe they are.

  29. Like Axel, slaw liked this post
Page 1 of 5 1 2 3 ... LastLast

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •