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Thread: Jarrett Jack Or Jose Calderon?

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    Default Jarrett Jack Or Jose Calderon?

    Really, I was just thinking. I know most would pick Jack to start at point, with Calderon off the bench. But honestly, I'm against that. Yes, Calderon has a huge crazy contract, yes he is not consistent, yes he is not THAT good. But, Jack? Really? At least Calderon can see the court, and he is a great passer. Jack isn't. Now that we have DeRozan, Weems, Bargnani all as offensive players, they need a guy to pass the ball, see the court. That is what Calderon is great at, giving the ball up. Giving it to the best guy, with the best shot. Jack is "better", but Jack is more of a shooting point, and we don't need that now. We need Bargnani to get the ball, we need DeRozan and Weems to be flying for Alley-Oops, or for free mid-range jumpers. I think, we should not judge the contract, but just put Jack next to Calderon, and see what the needs of this team is, and who would fit in with our new system the best.

    Just my opinion.

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    Calderon started the last 17 games of last season.

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    What's Calderon's huge crazy contract have to do with it? And Calderon is one of the most consistent players on the Raptors atm.

    The reasoning used for Jack starting over Calderon is defense. But really, Jack didn't fair much better defensively last season either. Jack's Defensive Rating was 115 while Calderon's was 116. Over the course of their career? They both average a defensive rating of 112. Jack's best Defensive Rating was 110 in his last year in Portland, where he played 27 mpg and started 16. Jose's best Defensive Rating was 108 in his second year in Toronto where he averaged 21 mpg and started 11. Comparatively, Jameer Nelson and Russel Westbrook posted 106 Defensive Ratings, while Rondo had 102. In my opinion a 108 rating should suffice a PG.

    Some may attribute Jack's poor defensive ratings to him being played at the off-guard position. If that's the case, then you can't make the argument that Jack is a better fit than Calderon because he can play the 2-guard at times.

    My point is, the problem was team defense, not PG defense. If you're going to select a starting PG for next season, you do it based on offense because the defense of both players while playing on the same team was horrendous anyway. If we look at offense, last season was Jack's best offensive season in the NBA, and he still wasn't better than Jose Calderon. That's based on a number of stats and what several people saw on the court. Jack's season can also be attributed to the fact that the team as a whole was top 5 in the league on offense. Jose has consistently been a well above average offensive player (especially after his rookie season).

    That's why you start Jose Calderon instead of Jarret Jack. Not because of flash names like "shooting point" and assuming that Jack can't see the court (really, he can).

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    He did have a few good games I guess... :S I still think we should give him a chance till Christmas, could maybe even inflate his numbers and help for a trade... :/

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    thanks Marz, you are right. About the contract, many want him out because of his huge contract, but I still think he can be useful to the team... And I really dislike Jack, watched him play... I don't know why, was trying to find reasons I guess. You are clearly better informed and probably more knowledgeable about basketball and the Raps. I'm new here Hi

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    The problem isnt that he is bad, but he 1, dosnt work with this team, i could see him being amazing on a team that needs his type of play like a memphis. The reason people are upset is because of his contract, he is almost un moveable. I think that on this team right now, jarrett jack should be the starter, because he likes to push the offence, calderon dosnt. Calderon might be good this year with out bosh, and he will have more options coming down the floor, calderon is a great passer and i think that it could work on this team right now because when he comes down the floor, and looks left and right, he sees options, its not all pick and roll with bosh, or dump it in to bosh and wait for him to draw a double. I am excited to see how calderon can work with this offence because he may do well with it, we need to give him a bit of a chance, even though if we had moved him we could have gotten a chandler, hibbert, and even granger (haha).

    Interesting Post

    RAW

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    Although I'm in favour of Jose starting too, I have to disagree with Jack not being able to see the floor.
    If you can't see the floor, you can't do this.
    There wasn't even an assist per game difference in Jose and Jack's numbers last season, so I don't know where people get the idea Jack can't pass.

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    both terrific backups, neither great starters. sign me up for the calderon starts camp though.

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    Quote Marz wrote: View Post
    What's Calderon's huge crazy contract have to do with it? And Calderon is one of the most consistent players on the Raptors atm.

    The reasoning used for Jack starting over Calderon is defense. But really, Jack didn't fair much better defensively last season either. Jack's Defensive Rating was 115 while Calderon's was 116. Over the course of their career? They both average a defensive rating of 112. Jack's best Defensive Rating was 110 in his last year in Portland, where he played 27 mpg and started 16. Jose's best Defensive Rating was 108 in his second year in Toronto where he averaged 21 mpg and started 11. Comparatively, Jameer Nelson and Russel Westbrook posted 106 Defensive Ratings, while Rondo had 102. In my opinion a 108 rating should suffice a PG.

    Some may attribute Jack's poor defensive ratings to him being played at the off-guard position. If that's the case, then you can't make the argument that Jack is a better fit than Calderon because he can play the 2-guard at times.

    My point is, the problem was team defense, not PG defense. If you're going to select a starting PG for next season, you do it based on offense because the defense of both players while playing on the same team was horrendous anyway. If we look at offense, last season was Jack's best offensive season in the NBA, and he still wasn't better than Jose Calderon. That's based on a number of stats and what several people saw on the court. Jack's season can also be attributed to the fact that the team as a whole was top 5 in the league on offense. Jose has consistently been a well above average offensive player (especially after his rookie season).

    That's why you start Jose Calderon instead of Jarret Jack. Not because of flash names like "shooting point" and assuming that Jack can't see the court (really, he can).
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    I would choose Jack over Jose simply because he gives more grit to the starting lineup. Jack possesses a better defensive game. He's willing to take contact, look at how many charges he took last year. On offense, Jack fits in better too. I would rather have a starting pg who drives and creates for other guys, an aggressor, rather then a guy who is simply a passer/shooter. A starting lineup of: Jack-Weems-Deroz-Kleiza-Bargs is easliest the most underated starting lineup in the league because I think that D-Rex and Weems are going to be the biggest surprises of the offseason. I really like the combo of Kleiza/Bargs as well. When you look at the second string: Jose-Bosa-Belli-Amir-Anderson the Raps actually stand pretty solid as a whole, and are allot deeper then many teams. ESPN has us ranked as last in the East, so be it. It just gives these young guys who have valleys of motivation even more drive, awesome!

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    Well for now, I'm just happy we don't have TJ Ford. At least we have decent point guards. Indiana have a big problem there HAHA. Let's see what surprises Colangelo decides to throw at us...

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    T-Mac to Detroit:
    http://www.nbadaily.net/wiretaps.cfm?id=688

    Maybe they'd take one of our PG's? I know Colangelo wants to unload Jose, but if a deal of Tayshaun Prince for Jarrett Jack and Reggie was offered ... looks pretty good for next season.
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    I would not do that trade. Then when do Weems and Kleiza come in the rotation? Plus we would be missing point guards... But yeah, offloading Reggie, THAT IS UNDERRATED.

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    Quote Papa Burgundy wrote: View Post
    T-Mac to Detroit:
    http://www.nbadaily.net/wiretaps.cfm?id=688

    Maybe they'd take one of our PG's? I know Colangelo wants to unload Jose, but if a deal of Tayshaun Prince for Jarrett Jack and Reggie was offered ... looks pretty good for next season.
    T-Mac can't be traded until Dec 15th. That is a long way off and a lot can happen on the court between Opening night and Dec 15th.
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    Could Calderon average 13 and 9 again? :')

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    Quote JoePanini wrote: View Post
    Could Calderon average 13 and 9 again? :')
    I think if he starts he could do better. Maybe 15 and 11
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    If all goes real well this year, we could be in the worst position ever. Another late lottery pick. Fun. HAHA.

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    Quote Buddahfan wrote: View Post
    T-Mac can't be traded until Dec 15th. That is a long way off and a lot can happen on the court between Opening night and Dec 15th.
    duide he wasn't talking about t-mac being traded. he was talking about tayshaun prince being traded, I don't know how you could misinterpret that but, w/e.


    and jack has been here less than calderon and has already been better, people want jack because we won games when jack was starting, then caldeorn came in and we stunk.

    jack fits better with the rout were going, if we are going run n' gun you can't do that because jose isn't agressive with the ball and he holds onto it too long to do that. jack is more agressive and gets the ball out of his hands quicker.

    plus, people are also saying it's time to turn over a new leaf, everyone from the 2006 division winning team is gone except jose, so jose needs to go to complete that circle.

    jose is not a good fit in the starting lineup, he fairs better off the bench, but he's a starting caliber point guard and can fair better in another system. so, you trade him for many more reasons than i just posted.
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    Quote Papa Burgundy wrote: View Post
    T-Mac to Detroit:
    http://www.nbadaily.net/wiretaps.cfm?id=688

    Maybe they'd take one of our PG's? I know Colangelo wants to unload Jose, but if a deal of Tayshaun Prince for Jarrett Jack and Reggie was offered ... looks pretty good for next season.
    Quote Buddahfan wrote: View Post
    T-Mac can't be traded until Dec 15th. That is a long way off and a lot can happen on the court between Opening night and Dec 15th.
    I think you are misreading his post. Piston are looking to sign T-MAC which may signal that Prince or Hamilton could be available. Pappa Burgandy would like to see a Prince for Jack trade. T-Mac is not involved as I understand it. I would do this trade in a heartbeat.
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    Quote Buddahfan wrote: View Post
    +10
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    Calderon vs. Jack? On the offensive end they are quite different in their tendencies. Calderon is the better playmaker (runs the offense better) and supposedly better shooter (though that didn't show last season), But Jack is the more aggressive attacker to the hoop. Jack's size and strength allows him to bully through most PGs and take the contact from the help.

    On the defensive end...not so much difference. They both don't fight over screens and rely on help too much. Both aren't quick enough to stay in front of most PGs.

    Neither are very good passers. Meaning they both can't "thread the needle" with their passes. They can find open guys and get it to them no problem (Jose a tad better than Jack), but a pass through a defender or two, specially on pick and roll situations (a la Utah Jazz), they can't or don't do it with consistency. For example, during PnR situations, Jose usually passes over the defenders and not bounces the ball through them like Nash/Paul/Deron/etc. Jose and Jack are good, but not THAT good.

    Bottom line is Marz was right when he said choosing a starting PG should depend on what the offense asks for, since they are both just bad on D. If we need someone to run the offense and get other guys going then Jose is the guy. But if you need someone aggressive to take it to the hole on the PnR who can also pass and shoot, then Jack is a better choice.

    IMO Jack was a better fit starting last season with Hedo able to run the offense. But this time we need Jose. Of course we need someone better (esp. defensively) than both of those guys but that's another story.

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