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Thread: Jarrett Jack Or Jose Calderon?

  1. #21
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    Sefolosha? Great defender.

  2. #22
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    Quote LBF wrote: View Post
    and jack has been here less than calderon and has already been better, people want jack because we won games when jack was starting, then caldeorn came in and we stunk.

    jack fits better with the rout were going, if we are going run n' gun you can't do that because jose isn't agressive with the ball and he holds onto it too long to do that. jack is more agressive and gets the ball out of his hands quicker.
    Actually when Calderon came in after jack started the offense picked up and there were numerous times we went on runs after the starting unit left us with a deficit.

    I'm also not sure why people still believe Jose is this passive passer. The only time this happened was under Sam Mitchell when he would bark out plays and Jose would have to execute. Last season under Triano and that "100 shats!" season, Jose was a much more push-the-offense kind of guy.

    What I'm having trouble understanding is why Jose is a "bad fit" in the starting lineup. People keep throwing that phrase around hoping it will stick, but provide no reason as to why. If Jose isn't a starting caliber PG, then neither is Jack. So how does Jack better fit the starters? Please explain. And please don't point to off-court chemistry. I could care less that Jack plays X-box with DeRozan on the weekends. I care about what they do on the court.

    From what I can see, a PG that gets you the ball at the right spot/time is great for developing the young gunz, and I think we're all in agreement that that is exactly what Jose does.
    Last edited by Marz; Tue Aug 10th, 2010 at 01:12 PM.

  3. #23
    Raptors Republic Rookie zapffe's Avatar
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    Speaking only offensively, I'd prefer Jose for set play and Jack for more energetic, fast break style of game. With the current roster in mind I'd probably pick Jack.

  4. #24
    Raptors Republic Rookie philwill's Avatar
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    Quote Nick wrote: View Post
    I would choose Jack over Jose simply because he gives more grit to the starting lineup. Jack possesses a better defensive game. He's willing to take contact, look at how many charges he took last year. On offense, Jack fits in better too. I would rather have a starting pg who drives and creates for other guys, an aggressor, rather then a guy who is simply a passer/shooter. A starting lineup of: Jack-Weems-Deroz-Kleiza-Bargs is easliest the most underated starting lineup in the league because I think that D-Rex and Weems are going to be the biggest surprises of the offseason. I really like the combo of Kleiza/Bargs as well. When you look at the second string: Jose-Bosa-Belli-Amir-Anderson the Raps actually stand pretty solid as a whole, and are allot deeper then many teams. ESPN has us ranked as last in the East, so be it. It just gives these young guys who have valleys of motivation even more drive, awesome!

    In what world is Kleiza the starting PF, and Bellinelli the Backup SF? Where is Ed Davis?

    You're absolutely delusional.
    It's about money

  5. #25
    Raptors Republic Rookie philwill's Avatar
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    Quote Marz wrote: View Post
    Actually when Calderon came in after jack started the offense picked up and there were numerous times we went on runs after the starting unit left us with a deficit.

    I'm also not sure why people still believe Jose is this passive defender. The only time this happened was under Sam Mitchell when he would bark out plays and Jose would have to execute. Last season under Triano and that "100 shats!" season, Jose was a much more push-the-offense kind of guy.

    What I'm having trouble understanding is why Jose is a "bad fit" in the starting lineup. People keep throwing that phrase around hoping it will stick, but provide no reason as to why. If Jose isn't a starting caliber PG, then neither is Jack. So how does Jack better fit the starters? Please explain. And please don't point to off-court chemistry. I could care less that Jack plays X-box with DeRozan on the weekends. I care about what they do on the court.

    From what I can see, a PG that gets you the ball at the right spot/time is great for developing the young gunz, and I think we're all in agreement that that is exactly what Jose does.
    +1
    It's about money

  6. #26
    Raptors Republic Veteran Buddahfan's Avatar
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    Career Shooting Comparison - Calderon on left and Jack on right

    TS%----.584---.564
    eFG%---.543---.500


    Statistically Calderon's career numbers rank him 2nd in passing when compared to CP3, Nash, Rondo and Jack. Jacks ranks 5th or last among the group of five.


    For passing comparison among Calderon, Nash, CP3, Rondo and Jack see link below

    http://raptorsrepublic.com/forums/sh...ing-Pespective

    EFG%
    Effective Field Goal Percentage; the formula is (FG + 0.5 * 3P) / FGA. This statistic adjusts for the fact that a 3-point field goal is worth one more point than a 2-point field goal. For example, suppose Player A goes 4 for 10 with 2 threes, while Player B goes 5 for 10 with 0 threes. Each player would have 10 points from field goals, and thus would have the same effective field goal percentage (50%).

    TS%
    True Shooting Percentage; the formula is PTS / (2 * (FGA + 0.44 * FTA)). True shooting percentage is a measure of shooting efficiency that takes into account field goals, 3-point field goals, and free throws.

    http://www.basketball-reference.com/about/glossary.html
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  7. #27
    Raptors Republic Starter Papa Burgundy's Avatar
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    This may be overstated a bit, but I feel like I don't exactly know what Jose Calderon would be like on an NBA team without Bosh ... yes, he seemed to be more of the slow half-court type of PG, but that's exactly the kind of team they built around their all-star CB4 ...

    Sure, we've seen him play at times when Bosh would be injured, but to truly see him in an offense where the schemes weren't built around dumping it into the post for Bosh ... maybe he could perform well in a run 'n' gun game? His passing is great, his shooting is awesome ... He is very careful with the ball, so it remains to be seen how he would play in the up-tempo game - and maybe we'll never get to see it with Jose in Toronto.
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  8. #28
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    Quote Papa Burgundy wrote: View Post
    This may be overstated a bit, but I feel like I don't exactly know what Jose Calderon would be like on an NBA team without Bosh ... yes, he seemed to be more of the slow half-court type of PG, but that's exactly the kind of team they built around their all-star CB4 ...

    Sure, we've seen him play at times when Bosh would be injured, but to truly see him in an offense where the schemes weren't built around dumping it into the post for Bosh ... maybe he could perform well in a run 'n' gun game? His passing is great, his shooting is awesome ... He is very careful with the ball, so it remains to be seen how he would play in the up-tempo game - and maybe we'll never get to see it with Jose in Toronto.
    Do you know what percentage of Calderon's assists came from Bosh?

    For example last season according to 82games.com, link below, only 48% of Bosh's field goals were assisted which was a lot lower than Bargnani at 65% and Johnson at 67%


    http://www.82games.com/0910/0910TOR.HTM
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    “As a captain, I played furiously. I drew a lot of fouls, but I brought everything I had to every practice and to every game. I left everything on the court because I simply wanted the team to win”
    Quote from well known personality who led their high school team to a state championship.

  9. #29
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    Quote philwill wrote: View Post
    In what world is Kleiza the starting PF, and Bellinelli the Backup SF? Where is Ed Davis?

    You're absolutely delusional.
    Do you really think Ed Davis is a good enough pf that he is going to be backing up Amir right out of the gates? Don't get me wrong, I think Ed is the exact player we need, but he's not going to be ready to handle that big of a load once the season starts. I don't even think Amir is ready for that, hence why we would start a crafty vet in their place. If Amir is ready, awesome! That would allow Kleiza to move to the sf as a reserve, and allow Dorsey/Davis to backup the pf. Kleiza did an awesome job filling in for both sf/pf positions with Denver. He played with one of the best forward team's in the league which had Martin/Nene/Andersen, in which he learned allot! But ya your probably right, Kleiza would never start based on the fact that you said so and I'm delusional.

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