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    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Default Raptors Player Power Rankings

    Now that Bosh is out here is a fun thing we can do that's open for debate from the very top to bottom. The player power rankings for the Raptors. Below would be my list:

    1. Andrea Bargnani: The only player on roster with legit center size and the number one option on offense. Virtually no one is eating into his minutes this season.

    2. DeMar DeRozan: The most likely candidate to be the number two option. He was one of the top LV Summer League players and based on reports he has a vastly improved handle to aid his game this winter. The Raptors are probably going to look to him to create on his own at times and I'm sure he wouldn't want it any other way.

    3. Jarret Jack: The dressing room power appears to be gravitating towards the 2nd year Raptor. Dedicating a large chunk of his off-season to help and support the young guns really was a statement to everyone in Raptorsland. What else made a statement in Raptorland? A botched Jose Calderon deal.

    4. Leandro Barbosa: This guy has game and he fits perfectly into what Colangelo wants from this Raptors squad on offense. He will be first off the bench and will help a lot with keeping the tempo high and preventing offensive lag while #1 and #2 are resting. Look for him to get more burn than he did in Phoenix over the last while. Look for him to get the ball more often as well.

    5. Amir Johnson: He's going to be given lots of opportunities to play but he's his own worst enemy with the fouls and if he can't figure it out there is a guy with more talent named Ed waiting to take his place.

    6. Ed Davis: The Raptors potential home run pick in the 2010 draft. He's going to get lots of minutes off the bench to start the season.

    7. Linas Kleiza: The Raptors' most likely starting SF candidate. He's got heart and here's to hoping he can translate that into a success story.

    8. Jose Calderon: Appears to be on the outside looking in right now. The guy can play but only one way... A trade could come at any moment.

    9. Sonny Weems: The additions of Kleiza and Barbosa really has taken the bite out his notion of being T-Mac to DeRozan's Carter.

    10. David Andersen: "Blue Collar Bargnani" hopes to fill a similar role to what he did last year in Houston.

    11. Solomon Alabi: I can't help but root for this kid. Such a positive, hard working, down to earth individual who deserves to be in the league as much as anybody. He'll figure it out but probably not this year.

    12. Reggie Evans: Like what he brings to the court at times but the guy had no business having the ball in his hands of stone last season, let alone trying to post guys up around the rim. He has an expiring contract and will probably be nothing more than a trading chip at this stage of the game in Toronto

    13. Marco Belinelli: Everything he can do multiple people can do better. He's probably going to go in a trade before the deadline.

    14. Marcus Banks: See #12 and #13.

    15. Joey Dorsey: No telling if he makes it to season opener without buying a ticket.

    16. Dwayne Jones: Given that Raptors brass actually admitted they hadn't seen the guy play before forces me to place him at the back of the bus until I get some indication pointing to the contrary.

    And yes, I realize the Raptors need to cut down the roster to at least 15 before the season starts.
    Last edited by Apollo; Wed Aug 11th, 2010 at 09:58 AM.

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    Raptors Republic Veteran Buddahfan's Avatar
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    I pretty much agree except

    1. Johnson has more talent than Davis. Johnson's overall positive impact on his team's success when he is on the court has been proven over the last three seasons. Whether Davis will ever have that kind of positive impact on a minute by minute basis is open to debate and we will only know for sure about five seasons from now.

    2. Weems has a good chance to become the #1 player off of the bench because I expect DeRozan to play more minutes than Kleiza. If Keiza, DeRozan and Jack or Calderon start, Kleiza will come out of games before DeRozan, Jack or Calderon. Therefore Weems will be the first man off of the bench most of the time. When Johnson picks up early fouls then either Davis or Weems will be the first off of the bench with Kleiza moving to PF if it is Weems.
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    Raptors Republic Veteran Buddahfan's Avatar
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    Davis minutes will be controlled mostly by whether Johnson gets into foul trouble or not.

    If Johnson plays only about 25 mpg because of foul problems then Davis will get a lot of minutes. On the other hand if Johnson pretty much stays out of foul trouble Triano will give him all the minutes he can handle which will be over 30 mpg.

    So I see the possible range of Davis's mpg in 10-11 as between 15 and 25.
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    Raptors Republic Veteran LBF's Avatar
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    buddah triano iosn't an idiot. Johnson can't handle 30 minutes with all the bouncing around he does and because he gets in trouble with fouls.

    Davis will get 20-25 min guranteed, you expect us to draft a guy who we didn't even workout only to play 10 min. a game. that's a little bit ridiculous.

    I see johnson playing some time at center too. so, we may see both on the court at the same time.
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    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Quote Buddahfan wrote: View Post
    I pretty much agree except

    1. Johnson has more talent than Davis. Johnson's overall positive impact on his team's success when he is on the court has been proven over the last three seasons. Whether Davis will ever have that kind of positive impact on a minute by minute basis is open to debate and we will only know for sure about five seasons from now.

    2. Weems has a good chance to become the #1 player off of the bench because I expect DeRozan to play more minutes than Kleiza. If Keiza, DeRozan and Jack or Calderon start, Kleiza will come out of games before DeRozan, Jack or Calderon. Therefore Weems will be the first man off of the bench most of the time. When Johnson picks up early fouls then either Davis or Weems will be the first off of the bench with Kleiza moving to PF if it is Weems.
    I think they're going to feed Davis more minutes than you're saying and I also feel we'll see him develop into a good player long before five years. I could see Ed stealing the starting job from Amir before the season is over. Moving on, can Weems crash the boards and guard men 25-50lbs heavier than him? I don't know. I don't see it. Kleiza was given a big pay day because the teams desperately needed him. He may come out before Jack or DeRozan but he's looking at a lot of minutes. Kleiza has 40lbs on Weems and rebounds the ball better. You can't expect Weems to guard forwards down low in the post. I think the first guy you're likely to see come out is Amir Johnson, followed by Jack.

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    Raptors Republic Veteran Buddahfan's Avatar
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    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    I think they're going to feed Davis more minutes than you're saying and I also feel we'll see him develop into a good player long before five years. I could see Ed stealing the starting job from Amir before the season is over. Moving on, can Weems crash the boards and guard men 25-50lbs heavier than him? I don't know. I don't see it. Kleiza was given a big pay day because the teams desperately needed him. He may come out before Jack or DeRozan but he's looking at a lot of minutes. Kleiza has 40lbs on Weems and rebounds the ball better. You can't expect Weems to guard forwards down low in the post. I think the first guy you're likely to see come out is Amir Johnson, followed by Jack.


    You along with a lot of fans and writers see Johnson as a career bench player.

    I am not willing to say that at this point.

    He sees himself as a starter and for now I will go with his opinion of himself plus the progress I saw him make in 09-10 as the season moved along to say that he will become a very very good NBA starter if he can control his foul problem.

    You don't have much confidence in Johnson's ability to stay out of foul trouble. Fair enough I can understand that. However, when asked to start last season he averaged over 32 mpg. So that is also what I am working from when I see him possibly averaging 30 mpg.

    Weems averaged 5.1 rebounds per 36 minutes in basically his rookie season. Kleiza has a career average of 6.6 rebounds per 36 minutes. That works out to about a one rebound per game difference. Really a non issue.

    Do you really think that Kleiza will get more mpg than DeRozan?

    Kleiza's NBA average is only 19 mpg. DeRozan averaged more than that last season as a rookie. If DeRozan is going to be the #2 option he is going to be playing 30 plus mpg.

    Now will DeRozan move to the #3 when Kleiza comes out and Barbosa then moving into the #2? I think only in an emergency and not on a regular basis.

    We shall see how it turns out.

    P.S. For the sake of the Raptors I hope that you are closer to being correct above Davis potential than what it appears you might be about Orton's potential. Of course one never knows how he future will turn out.
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    "Kleiza's NBA average is only 19 mpg. DeRozan averaged more than that last season as a rookie. If DeRozan is going to be the #2 option he is going to be playing 30 plus mpg.

    Now will DeRozan move to the #3 when Kleiza comes out and Barbosa then moving into the #2? I think only in an emergency and not on a regular basis."

    Kleiza played on a team that went to the western conference finals and got good minutes. Derozan played on a team that didn't make the playoffs.

  8. #8
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Quote Buddahfan wrote: View Post
    You along with a lot of fans and writers see Johnson as a career bench player.

    I am not willing to say that at this point.

    He sees himself as a starter and for now I will go with his opinion of himself plus the progress I saw him make in 09-10 as the season moved along to say that he will become a very very good NBA starter if he can control his foul problem.

    You don't have much confidence in Johnson's ability to stay out of foul trouble. Fair enough I can understand that. However, when asked to start last season he averaged over 32 mpg. So that is also what I am working from when I see him possibly averaging 30 mpg.

    Weems averaged 5.1 rebounds per 36 minutes in basically his rookie season. Kleiza has a career average of 6.6 rebounds per 36 minutes. That works out to about a one rebound per game difference. Really a non issue.

    Do you really think that Kleiza will get more mpg than DeRozan?

    Kleiza's NBA average is only 19 mpg. DeRozan averaged more than that last season as a rookie. If DeRozan is going to be the #2 option he is going to be playing 30 plus mpg.

    Now will DeRozan move to the #3 when Kleiza comes out and Barbosa then moving into the #2? I think only in an emergency and not on a regular basis.

    We shall see how it turns out.

    P.S. For the sake of the Raptors I hope that you are closer to being correct above Davis potential than what it appears you might be about Orton's potential. Of course one never knows how he future will turn out.
    The win %, using a weighted average, of the opponents Amir faced as a starter was 43%. He faced the Knicks twice and the Pistons once. In the games where he faced real competition (Bulls and Hawks) he averaged 4.5 fouls a game.

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    Raptors Republic Veteran Buddahfan's Avatar
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    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    The win %, using a weighted average, of the opponents Amir faced as a starter was 43%. He faced the Knicks twice and the Pistons once. In the games where he faced real competition (Bulls and Hawks) he averaged 4.5 fouls a game.
    You are grasping for straws big time.
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    Quote Buddahfan wrote: View Post
    You are grasping for straws big time.
    Says the guy who always finds the most obscure stats to try and inflate Amir. Here's hoping he lives up to your expectations Buddha, God knows the Raptors need it.

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    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Quote Buddahfan wrote: View Post
    You are grasping for straws big time.
    Really? Because I merely took the same games you just tried to use to sell us on Amir's greatness.

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    Raptors Republic Rookie philwill's Avatar
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    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    The win %, using a weighted average, of the opponents Amir faced as a starter was 43%. He faced the Knicks twice and the Pistons once. In the games where he faced real competition (Bulls and Hawks) he averaged 4.5 fouls a game.
    God, not that I want to support the consistent mediocrity of Buddahfan's analyses (come on, at least spell Buddha right), I think Amir's got a lot more ability than most give him credit for. I also think it's possible we could see him (or Ed) play a few minutes at the 3 spot (STRICTLY FOR DEFENSIVE PURPOSES).

    Min Pts Reb Ast TO STL BLK
    04/04 GS 17 8 6 0 1 0 1
    04/06 CLE 29 16 10 1 0 0 0
    04/07 BOS 21 4 2 3 1 2 1
    04/09 ATL 35 18 13 2 1 0 2
    04/11 CHI 25 10 2 0 1 0 1
    04/12 DET 34 26 2 4 1 0 1
    04/14 NY 40 21 5 3 0 1 1

    __________Min__Pts__Reb__Ast__TO__STL___BLK
    AVERAGES: 29___15___6____2____1___.5_____1


    ...If he's starting and putting up those numbers, he's basically playing the role of 09-10 Bargnani, minus minutes, plus hustle, and that leaves approximately 19 minutes left at the 4 spot that we could experiment with. Inevitably, he's going to have those 25 minute games, meaning Ed Davis will have more of an opportunity. If Amir's coming off the bench and putting up those numbers in a comparable number of minutes (say 26 minutes instead), I'd be even happier. I just think that he'll actually surpass his production for those games with an increased role... maybe a psychological effect in addition to his indisputable abilities to hustle, rebound offensively, be somewhat of a nuisance on D, and create some turnovers.

    If Ed-D starts, well, that's a whole other ballgame. Literally.
    Last edited by philwill; Tue Aug 10th, 2010 at 05:54 PM. Reason: Not re-doing all those stats, but the one that matters I did
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    Raptors Republic Veteran Buddahfan's Avatar
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    At this point I honestly think that you would pay the officials to call fouls on Johnson if you thought you could away with it just so you could be correct. Really
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    Raptors Republic Superstar TheGloveinRapsUniform's Avatar
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    Sorry Buddha, i admire Amir's game too, but he's a poor man's Amare. Without a good PG to feed him inside passes, he probably wont be able to do as much. Amir's face up game is a bit questionable and he is good weakside shot blocker, meaning offensive players dont usually see him coming when they get their shots blocked. Davis on the other hand has a very good face up game, both on offense and defense. He can drive to the basket and can block opponents face up.

    Im not even sure if Triano will start Amir. Im betting on Davis getting the start, and Amir coming in on the 10minute mark.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star ezz_bee's Avatar
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    Quote tbihis wrote: View Post
    Sorry Buddha, i admire Amir's game too, but he's a poor man's Amare. Without a good PG to feed him inside passes, he probably wont be able to do as much. Amir's face up game is a bit questionable and he is good weakside shot blocker, meaning offensive players dont usually see him coming when they get their shots blocked. Davis on the other hand has a very good face up game, both on offense and defense. He can drive to the basket and can block opponents face up.

    Im not even sure if Triano will start Amir. Im betting on Davis getting the start, and Amir coming in on the 10minute mark.

    I like Amir but I'm not sure he can make it as a starter in the L. However the Raps just gave him a fairly hefty contract (even if it wasn't ridiculous like we first thought) and even though Davis was a steal I don't see him starting on opening night. Maybe by the all-star break if he develops well. That being said I think that he'll get solid minutes 15-20 regardless.
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    Quote tbihis wrote: View Post
    Sorry Buddha, i admire Amir's game too, but he's a poor man's Amare. Without a good PG to feed him inside passes, he probably wont be able to do as much.

    Except play defense, hustle and crash the offensive boards far more than Amare ever has.

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    Quote Brasky wrote: View Post
    Except play defense, hustle and crash the offensive boards far more than Amare ever has.
    HAHAHAHAH Amir and defence? HAHAHAHAHAAHAHA

    Anyways, my list:

    1) Bargnani: Big, fast, versatile. Future of the Raptors. If he can stay fit all year long, and actually play the last quarter he can be a great, yes I said great player. If all goes well, and he gets better on the D and O, he can be our new 20-8-2 guy.
    2) DeRozan: Young, Athletic and can still develop a jumper. He was pretty good from the elbow last year, we have many good elbow shooters this year though :/
    3) Calderon: If he can play properly again, he can be so valuable. Great passer, can shoot when needed, and can find our new set of offensive players. If he DOES NOT play well, which is likely, then he'll be down under at about number 7 or 8.
    4) Kleiza: Great offensive player, he can shoot from everywhere on the court, outside, midrange, inside. He can also rebound. Once again, this is if all goes well. I think the players which step up will fly up this list, so pretty much apart from Bargs, anyone could be number 3-15...
    5) Barbosa: Just like Bargs, he is faster than his defenders. And he can also bring out the defence and confuse them. He can both shoot the three and is great at driving. Great threat. Hoping to see his 08 season off the bench shine again...
    6) Weems: He is just athletic, and can get streaky. He'll be a great bench scorer.
    7) Belinelli: Has the skills, just that he isn't too confident and isn't very good at decision making. Takes sloppy shots, but he will have some games, where he'll be great. Hopefully, those games will count.
    8) Jack: I just dislike him, but he is better than most on the roster. Just putting him here cause no way he's under the rest...
    9) Johnson: Great rebounder, okay post player. Will never be able to play 30 minutes...
    10) Davis: If he gets the minutes, and the touches, can really contribute. Still have to see him play though.
    11-15) Yeah, the rest HAHA

    I think these rankings are useless though, because our roster is very balanced and full of talent, but not consistent talent. So whoever steps up, will be great. Whoever won't will underperform...

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    Default Agree Jose deserves more respect; think Demar's second season not so hot

    BTW - that is LinAs Kleiza - think "lean ass".

    1. Andrea Bargnani
    2. Amir Johnson
    3. Jose Calderon
    4. DeMar DeRozan
    5. Linas Kleiza
    6. Sonny Weems
    7. Leandro Barbosa
    8. Jarret Jack
    9. Marco Belinelli
    10. Ed Davis
    11. David Andersen
    12. Solomon Alabi
    13. Joey Dorsey
    14. Reggie Evans
    15. Marcus Banks
    16. Dwayne Jones

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    Quote JoePanini wrote: View Post
    HAHAHAHAH Amir and defence? HAHAHAHAHAAHAHA
    Amir was easily the best defender on the team...

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    Raptors Republic Veteran Buddahfan's Avatar
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    Quote tbihis wrote: View Post
    Sorry Buddha, i admire Amir's game too, but he's a poor man's Amare. Without a good PG to feed him inside passes, he probably wont be able to do as much. Amir's face up game is a bit questionable and he is good weakside shot blocker, meaning offensive players dont usually see him coming when they get their shots blocked. Davis on the other hand has a very good face up game, both on offense and defense. He can drive to the basket and can block opponents face up.

    Im not even sure if Triano will start Amir. Im betting on Davis getting the start, and Amir coming in on the 10minute mark.
    We shall see. It is certainly not in any of our hands.
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