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  • #31
    Stop Crapping on Jose

    Toronto loves their tough guys, but seems to crap on them, too. Jose has improved each year and been a team player throughout. He gave up the starters spot to TJ for playoff peace. He then plays the whole season injured because Colangelo has only Ukic as a back up. Then he puts up with "Hedo want Ball" and allows his stats to slide big time. he allowed himself to play the role of a spot up shooter for Hedo. Defensively, he can't stop quick guards from penetrating off the dribble, but there are only a few guys in this league who can. Jack regularly gets beat on penetration. The Team defence behind the PG determines whether they penetrate more so than the pg himself.

    He runs a good offence, is enthusiastic, loves the city and team, tolerates for the benefit of the team, and is a very good shooter. Trading him is a mistake. Sure Jack showed some leadership and is a bit more aggressive, but Jose will definitely get them the ball in situations where they can succeed. I would venture to make Jose our best or second best offensive player.

    Comment


    • #32
      There is nothing tough about Jose Calderon. He did take the high road with TJ Ford but you neglect to mention how he then turned around at the end of the season and said he would not re-sign unless he was named starter. One could argue he gave in to Hedo no more than Hedo gave in to him. They mixed no better than oil and water and it showed. I'm not sure how you can blame his bad season on him making concessions to Hedo. I never even saw that happening and if the guy can't play effective ball without the rock in his hands all the time then no wonder they're trying to trade him. This year, who ever the PGs are, they're going to have to give up the rock to DeRozan and Barbosa at times.

      Comment


      • #33
        EaseMyPain wrote: View Post
        Toronto loves their tough guys, but seems to crap on them, too. Jose has improved each year and been a team player throughout. He gave up the starters spot to TJ for playoff peace. He then plays the whole season injured because Colangelo has only Ukic as a back up. Then he puts up with "Hedo want Ball" and allows his stats to slide big time. he allowed himself to play the role of a spot up shooter for Hedo. Defensively, he can't stop quick guards from penetrating off the dribble, but there are only a few guys in this league who can. Jack regularly gets beat on penetration. The Team defence behind the PG determines whether they penetrate more so than the pg himself.

        He runs a good offence, is enthusiastic, loves the city and team, tolerates for the benefit of the team, and is a very good shooter. Trading him is a mistake. Sure Jack showed some leadership and is a bit more aggressive, but Jose will definitely get them the ball in situations where they can succeed. I would venture to make Jose our best or second best offensive player.




        Bravo!
        Avatar: Riverboat Coffee House 134 Yorkville Ave. billboard of upcoming entertainers - Circa 1960s

        Memories some so sweet, indeed

        Larger Photo of the avatar



        “As a captain, I played furiously. I drew a lot of fouls, but I brought everything I had to every practice and to every game. I left everything on the court because I simply wanted the team to win”
        Quote from well known personality who led their high school team to a state championship.

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        • #34
          Brasky wrote: View Post
          Except play defense, hustle and crash the offensive boards far more than Amare ever has.
          HAHAHAHAH Amir and defence? HAHAHAHAHAAHAHA

          Anyways, my list:

          1) Bargnani: Big, fast, versatile. Future of the Raptors. If he can stay fit all year long, and actually play the last quarter he can be a great, yes I said great player. If all goes well, and he gets better on the D and O, he can be our new 20-8-2 guy.
          2) DeRozan: Young, Athletic and can still develop a jumper. He was pretty good from the elbow last year, we have many good elbow shooters this year though :/
          3) Calderon: If he can play properly again, he can be so valuable. Great passer, can shoot when needed, and can find our new set of offensive players. If he DOES NOT play well, which is likely, then he'll be down under at about number 7 or 8.
          4) Kleiza: Great offensive player, he can shoot from everywhere on the court, outside, midrange, inside. He can also rebound. Once again, this is if all goes well. I think the players which step up will fly up this list, so pretty much apart from Bargs, anyone could be number 3-15...
          5) Barbosa: Just like Bargs, he is faster than his defenders. And he can also bring out the defence and confuse them. He can both shoot the three and is great at driving. Great threat. Hoping to see his 08 season off the bench shine again...
          6) Weems: He is just athletic, and can get streaky. He'll be a great bench scorer.
          7) Belinelli: Has the skills, just that he isn't too confident and isn't very good at decision making. Takes sloppy shots, but he will have some games, where he'll be great. Hopefully, those games will count.
          8) Jack: I just dislike him, but he is better than most on the roster. Just putting him here cause no way he's under the rest...
          9) Johnson: Great rebounder, okay post player. Will never be able to play 30 minutes...
          10) Davis: If he gets the minutes, and the touches, can really contribute. Still have to see him play though.
          11-15) Yeah, the rest HAHA

          I think these rankings are useless though, because our roster is very balanced and full of talent, but not consistent talent. So whoever steps up, will be great. Whoever won't will underperform...

          Comment


          • #35
            Agree Jose deserves more respect; think Demar's second season not so hot

            BTW - that is LinAs Kleiza - think "lean ass".

            1. Andrea Bargnani
            2. Amir Johnson
            3. Jose Calderon
            4. DeMar DeRozan
            5. Linas Kleiza
            6. Sonny Weems
            7. Leandro Barbosa
            8. Jarret Jack
            9. Marco Belinelli
            10. Ed Davis
            11. David Andersen
            12. Solomon Alabi
            13. Joey Dorsey
            14. Reggie Evans
            15. Marcus Banks
            16. Dwayne Jones

            Comment


            • #36
              RAPT0RS wrote: View Post
              Quite honestly, I think Weems will be one of our top studs.

              1. Bargnani
              2. DeRozan
              3. Barbosa
              4. Weems
              5. Jack
              6. Calderon
              7. Davis
              8. Klieza
              9. Bellineli
              10. Evans
              11. Banks
              12. Anderson
              13. Alabi
              14. Dorsey
              15. Jones

              Seeing Jack, DeRozan, Weems and Amir start would make me really happy.
              But I would really love to see Ed get in the mix as soon as possible.

              agree (well, except for the fact that you left amir off the list...and for where barbosa is ranked).

              still not sure why we're all automatically pencilling kleiza in as the de facto starting 3, when it makes more sense (IMHO) to start weems at the 2 & DD at the 3. what's the point of (re-)building around a core if you don't give them a chance to play together? why is weems always thought of as a 3 (coming off the bench), while DD is considered a 2?

              anyway, bargs is the default #1 (a tear...). after that, it gets a bit murky - DD would seem to slide into the 2nd banana role, but if weems is starting at the 2 (like i think he should), i can see him being quite high.

              i'd be moving barbosa down significantly, at least until we see him in game action. his perimeter game has gone downhill, and he'll need good complementary players on the floor with him in order to take advantage of really the only thing he does at an above-average level (which is get out on the break). his game is completely 'change-of-pace' oriented, and if he's just going to be stuck in a corner waiting for jose to bring the ball up, it'll be a total waste.

              since it's a total rebuild year, i really feel you have to throw the youngsters out there, if for nothing else than to separate the wheat from the chaff. that means lots of bargs, lot's of DD, lot's of sonny & ED. and even lots of amir. basically, anyone who is being asked to step into a new situation is going to get a solid chunk of time/touches. players who have an established NBA identity (jose, jack, kleiza, etc.) should be periphery/supporting players.
              TRUE LOVE - Sometimes you know it the instant you see it across the bar.

              Comment


              • #37
                EaseMyPain wrote: View Post
                Toronto loves their tough guys, but seems to crap on them, too. Jose has improved each year and been a team player throughout. He gave up the starters spot to TJ for playoff peace. He then plays the whole season injured because Colangelo has only Ukic as a back up. Then he puts up with "Hedo want Ball" and allows his stats to slide big time. he allowed himself to play the role of a spot up shooter for Hedo. Defensively, he can't stop quick guards from penetrating off the dribble, but there are only a few guys in this league who can. Jack regularly gets beat on penetration. The Team defence behind the PG determines whether they penetrate more so than the pg himself.

                He runs a good offence, is enthusiastic, loves the city and team, tolerates for the benefit of the team, and is a very good shooter. Trading him is a mistake. Sure Jack showed some leadership and is a bit more aggressive, but Jose will definitely get them the ball in situations where they can succeed. I would venture to make Jose our best or second best offensive player.
                Sorry for posting just for that, but I HAVE TO:

                +1

                I aggre to trade him for his contract if that is useful for the 'retooling' and all that, but any raptor fan should respect him and his game.

                If you see the best plays of last season, Jose is making the pass in almost all of them. The 'young gunz' stuff wouldn't exist w/o Jose, BC should be very thankful to have something to sell...thanks to Jose.

                Comment


                • #38
                  Fon Riego wrote: View Post
                  If you see the best plays of last season, Jose is making the pass in almost all of them.
                  you can't argue with that kind of hard-core statistical analysis.
                  TRUE LOVE - Sometimes you know it the instant you see it across the bar.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    JoePanini wrote: View Post
                    HAHAHAHAH Amir and defence? HAHAHAHAHAAHAHA
                    Amir was easily the best defender on the team...

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      EaseMyPain wrote: View Post
                      Toronto loves their tough guys, but seems to crap on them, too. Jose has improved each year
                      stopped reading after this point ? improved in what ?

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        yertu damkule wrote: View Post
                        you can't argue with that kind of hard-core statistical analysis.
                        I never told it was...do you have a better one?

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          yertu damkule wrote: View Post
                          agree (well, except for the fact that you left amir off the list...and for where barbosa is ranked).

                          still not sure why we're all automatically pencilling kleiza in as the de facto starting 3, when it makes more sense (IMHO) to start weems at the 2 & DD at the 3. what's the point of (re-)building around a core if you don't give them a chance to play together? why is weems always thought of as a 3 (coming off the bench), while DD is considered a 2?

                          anyway, bargs is the default #1 (a tear...). after that, it gets a bit murky - DD would seem to slide into the 2nd banana role, but if weems is starting at the 2 (like i think he should), i can see him being quite high.

                          i'd be moving barbosa down significantly, at least until we see him in game action. his perimeter game has gone downhill, and he'll need good complementary players on the floor with him in order to take advantage of really the only thing he does at an above-average level (which is get out on the break). his game is completely 'change-of-pace' oriented, and if he's just going to be stuck in a corner waiting for jose to bring the ball up, it'll be a total waste.

                          since it's a total rebuild year, i really feel you have to throw the youngsters out there, if for nothing else than to separate the wheat from the chaff. that means lots of bargs, lot's of DD, lot's of sonny & ED. and even lots of amir. basically, anyone who is being asked to step into a new situation is going to get a solid chunk of time/touches. players who have an established NBA identity (jose, jack, kleiza, etc.) should be periphery/supporting players.
                          I agree. If we look at the stats, torontos most effective lineup offensively and defensivley was with dd at the 3 and sonny at the 2

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            From a Power ranking perspective only and not necessarily based on who had, has or will develop more talent:
                            1) Bargnani
                            2) DeMar DeRozan
                            3) Leandron Barbosa
                            4) Linas Kleiza
                            5) Jarret Jack
                            6) Amir Johnson
                            7) Jose Calderone
                            8) Ed Davis
                            9) David Anderson
                            10) Sonny Weems
                            11) Solomon Alabi
                            12) Who cares after these guys?

                            Starters if there are no more moves should likely be:
                            Bargnani
                            Johnson ( may lose out to Davis if he's ready and if not by season's end)
                            Kleiza
                            DeMar
                            Jack

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              You ever heard of a small sample size?
                              Balding Spalding - NBA Analysis and Coverage

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                yertu damkule wrote: View Post
                                agree (well, except for the fact that you left amir off the list...and for where barbosa is ranked).

                                still not sure why we're all automatically pencilling kleiza in as the de facto starting 3, when it makes more sense (IMHO) to start weems at the 2 & DD at the 3. what's the point of (re-)building around a core if you don't give them a chance to play together? why is weems always thought of as a 3 (coming off the bench), while DD is considered a 2?

                                anyway, bargs is the default #1 (a tear...). after that, it gets a bit murky - DD would seem to slide into the 2nd banana role, but if weems is starting at the 2 (like i think he should), i can see him being quite high.

                                i'd be moving barbosa down significantly, at least until we see him in game action. his perimeter game has gone downhill, and he'll need good complementary players on the floor with him in order to take advantage of really the only thing he does at an above-average level (which is get out on the break). his game is completely 'change-of-pace' oriented, and if he's just going to be stuck in a corner waiting for jose to bring the ball up, it'll be a total waste.

                                since it's a total rebuild year, i really feel you have to throw the youngsters out there, if for nothing else than to separate the wheat from the chaff. that means lots of bargs, lot's of DD, lot's of sonny & ED. and even lots of amir. basically, anyone who is being asked to step into a new situation is going to get a solid chunk of time/touches. players who have an established NBA identity (jose, jack, kleiza, etc.) should be periphery/supporting players.
                                Yes my point exactly. And forgetting Amir was a total accident :-P I would slot him about 4-7 range, and now Bellineli is gone it should be interesting.

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