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Thread: Charlotte Still Trying To Land Jose?

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    Raptors Republic All-Star Balls of Steel's Avatar
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    Quote vinnie_paz wrote: View Post
    first you said jordan and charlotte can kiss our ass, now you say you wish charlotte would consider that...

    yes its only difficult when you post nonsense like charlotte and toronto are division rivals... who else is in this magical division ?
    Then I bow to your perfect, error-free posts. When I said I wish, it was in response to you wanting me to consider the financial impact of JC's contract. I said, I wish that Charlotte would consider the contract before they go after someone like Calderon. Man, I'm tired of this...
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    Quote Balls of Steel wrote: View Post
    Dude, you need to air out your GM-like frustrations to MJ, not me. Read the papers and the Internet. They are the ones wanting a PG, be it Calderon or someone else. I did not create this transaction. But to keep myself from chasing my own tail, I will agree with you that just because we need a defensive rebounding center, it does not mean we go after Okafor. Point taken. As far as Charlotte's mind-set is concerned, it is their priority to get a guard who either makes 1 or 10 million for as long as the player in questions fits the mold of what THEY WANT.
    which part of my last post showed that i was frustrated ? dont just trow out random accusations b/c YOU ARE FRUSTRATED !

    all i asked was why would charlotte want to spend $30 million on jose calderon ?

    not sure why you got all upset about it...

  3. #43
    Raptors Republic All-Star Red and White's Avatar
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    Quote vinnie_paz wrote: View Post
    why would Charlotte want to spend $10 million a year for the next 3 years on jose calderon ?
    Why would toronto want him for that much? The reason that 1, charlotte almost made a deal with us for calderon, and 2, the reason this thread is titled that, is because there is interest from them. Think about it, if MJ didnt get cold feet, we would all be really happy people right now. But he did, and it isnt that he realized that calderon sucked (which is not true) that made him drop out of the trade, it was the fact that we were getting tooo much. They obvuously have interest in him despite the contract.

  4. #44
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    I'm a huge Jose hater, but there is no point to dump him for the bobcats crap when the raps don't really have any serviceable point guards. Jack is a decent option, but not for more than 30 minutes and what if he gets hurt? Barbosa can play the point like Bargs can rotate on defense.

    I hate Jose's defense and contract equally, but he is an ideal point guard to run the young gunz offense, which is going to be chaotic and in need of a steady hand. Banks is best suited to wear a suit and I have seen how quickly the raps turn to garbage without a back up point guard. Lets all just accept that Jose is grossly overpaid, forever unable to keep his man in front of him and that we are stuck with him for at least another year. Call him a high priced baby sitter, but unless a better player is coming back or he is part of a larger deal for a point guard, lets just pencil in the Jack/Jose platoon for one more run.

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    Quote Red and White wrote: View Post
    Why would toronto want him for that much? The reason that 1, charlotte almost made a deal with us for calderon, and 2, the reason this thread is titled that, is because there is interest from them. Think about it, if MJ didnt get cold feet, we would all be really happy people right now. But he did, and it isnt that he realized that calderon sucked (which is not true) that made him drop out of the trade, it was the fact that we were getting tooo much. They obvuously have interest in him despite the contract.
    yes but they were going to give us DIAW ...

    my question on why would charlotte want calderon was in reference to a trade where someone said damp for evans and calderon

    go check post # 26

  6. #46
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    Quote vinnie_paz wrote: View Post
    damp's contract is not guaranteed. they can just cut him.

    TJ Ford is available... should every team who needs a pg be begging indy for him ?

    elton brand is available... he is set to make over $80 million in the next 4 years... so any team that needs a PF, should not look at the salary (even though the nba has a salary cap) and just trade for him ?

    gilbert arenas is available ? do we get the point ?

    yes jose is a decent player, but his salary makes him hard to trade, and while we have jack, paying jose 10 million is pointless. so to get rid of him for anyone who has a shorter contract is beneficial to the raps.

    he has also had injuries the past 2 years which have slowed him down.

    to ask a team to not only take his contract so we get some cap flex, but then the other team also has to give us a good player and an unprotected 1st round pick (which is what some have suggested) is simply ridiculous.

    do you agree with any of this ? please tell me if you think i have it wrong anywhere...
    Paying Jose is not pointless. If we got rid of him for trash, we would have absolutely 0 playmakers on the team behind Jack, who is regarded as only a half-decent playmaking point. Everyone knows Barbosa doesn't have PG skill and unless you think Marcus Banks can fill Jose's shoes, I'd say we need to keep Jose until we get something worthwhile.
    Now your comparisons, those are pretty pointless. TJ sucks, the fact that Indy was begging for a PG is proof of that. No one needs a PF, and by now everyone sees that 20 mil a year is ridiculous for him. Considering the few options left available at PG, Jose's 10 mil doesn't look all that bad for a team like Charlotte, who's convinced a good PG is the only thing left keeping them from seriously competing in the playoffs. And no one wants Gilbert because of a lot more than his enormous contract. Granted, some of the proposed trades don't make too much sense, but your arguments are not a good way of convincing people of that.

  7. #47
    Raptors Republic All-Star grindhouse's Avatar
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    Quote Papa Burgundy wrote: View Post
    Similar to a lot of ideas here, a swap of Jose and Reggie for Dampier ... then being creative with his NON-guaranteed $13m contract ... TPE anyone?

    http://www.nbadaily.net/wiretaps.cfm?id=703
    with the way the roster is going i think i would make a trade for ellis or Andris Biedrins the only trade with charlotte would be to take dampier and then dump him.

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    Quote Kennay wrote: View Post
    Paying Jose is not pointless. If we got rid of him for trash, we would have absolutely 0 playmakers on the team behind Jack, who is regarded as only a half-decent playmaking point. Everyone knows Barbosa doesn't have PG skill and unless you think Marcus Banks can fill Jose's shoes, I'd say we need to keep Jose until we get something worthwhile.
    Now your comparisons, those are pretty pointless. TJ sucks, the fact that Indy was begging for a PG is proof of that. No one needs a PF, and by now everyone sees that 20 mil a year is ridiculous for him. Considering the few options left available at PG, Jose's 10 mil doesn't look all that bad for a team like Charlotte, who's convinced a good PG is the only thing left keeping them from seriously competing in the playoffs. And no one wants Gilbert because of a lot more than his enormous contract. Granted, some of the proposed trades don't make too much sense, but your arguments are not a good way of convincing people of that.
    what's the point of using examples in an argument if you are going to use marginal examples.

    if you use the extreme examples, people know that this situation is not as bad, but they get the point...

    what if instead of gilbert i used beno udrih ? would you still get the point ?

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    Quote Kennay wrote: View Post
    Paying Jose is not pointless. If we got rid of him for trash, we would have absolutely 0 playmakers on the team behind Jack, who is regarded as only a half-decent playmaking point. Everyone knows Barbosa doesn't have PG skill and unless you think Marcus Banks can fill Jose's shoes, I'd say we need to keep Jose until we get something worthwhile.
    Now your comparisons, those are pretty pointless. TJ sucks, the fact that Indy was begging for a PG is proof of that. No one needs a PF, and by now everyone sees that 20 mil a year is ridiculous for him. Considering the few options left available at PG, Jose's 10 mil doesn't look all that bad for a team like Charlotte, who's convinced a good PG is the only thing left keeping them from seriously competing in the playoffs. And no one wants Gilbert because of a lot more than his enormous contract. Granted, some of the proposed trades don't make too much sense, but your arguments are not a good way of convincing people of that.
    with the $30 million you save you can sign a back pg or whoever you want right ?

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    Quote Kennay wrote: View Post
    Paying Jose is not pointless. If we got rid of him for trash, we would have absolutely 0 playmakers on the team behind Jack, who is regarded as only a half-decent playmaking point. Everyone knows Barbosa doesn't have PG skill and unless you think Marcus Banks can fill Jose's shoes, I'd say we need to keep Jose until we get something worthwhile.
    Now your comparisons, those are pretty pointless. TJ sucks, the fact that Indy was begging for a PG is proof of that. No one needs a PF, and by now everyone sees that 20 mil a year is ridiculous for him. Considering the few options left available at PG, Jose's 10 mil doesn't look all that bad for a team like Charlotte, who's convinced a good PG is the only thing left keeping them from seriously competing in the playoffs. And no one wants Gilbert because of a lot more than his enormous contract. Granted, some of the proposed trades don't make too much sense, but your arguments are not a good way of convincing people of that.
    with the cap flexibility what is stopping you from signing another pg ?

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    Quote mo-sales wrote: View Post
    I'm a huge Jose hater, but there is no point to dump him for the bobcats crap when the raps don't really have any serviceable point guards. Jack is a decent option, but not for more than 30 minutes and what if he gets hurt? Barbosa can play the point like Bargs can rotate on defense.

    I hate Jose's defense and contract equally, but he is an ideal point guard to run the young gunz offense, which is going to be chaotic and in need of a steady hand. Banks is best suited to wear a suit and I have seen how quickly the raps turn to garbage without a back up point guard. Lets all just accept that Jose is grossly overpaid, forever unable to keep his man in front of him and that we are stuck with him for at least another year. Call him a high priced baby sitter, but unless a better player is coming back or he is part of a larger deal for a point guard, lets just pencil in the Jack/Jose platoon for one more run.
    why have a $30 million back up plan ? why cant you use part of that money to sign a decent backup pg... example JJ was signed for only $5...

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    Quote vinnie_paz wrote: View Post
    what's the point of using examples in an argument if you are going to use marginal examples.

    if you use the extreme examples, people know that this situation is not as bad, but they get the point...

    what if instead of gilbert i used beno udrih ? would you still get the point ?
    I'm just pointing out none of your examples fit the situation here . Which brings up the point that there are no other situations around the league that are comparable, so forget that. Charlotte needs a point guard, and Jose's one of the few that are available, so they're willing to take on his salary. If Jordan wasn't a fuck up and if the Bobcats had anything at all that we wanted left the deal would already be done.

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    Quote vinnie_paz wrote: View Post
    with the cap flexibility what is stopping you from signing another pg ?
    Can you name more than 1 or 2 other PGs available?

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    Quote Kennay wrote: View Post
    Can you name more than 1 or 2 other PGs available?

    http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_yl...enttracker2010

    check this list... we dont need a star pg for your back up do we ?

    chucky atkins ?

    a guy to mentor JJ maybe ?

    and this way JJ can be comfortable and develop his game not having to worry that every mistake means the coach is going to put jose in...
    Last edited by vinnie_paz; Thu Aug 12th, 2010 at 03:03 PM.

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    Quote Kennay wrote: View Post
    I'm just pointing out none of your examples fit the situation here . Which brings up the point that there are no other situations around the league that are comparable, so forget that. Charlotte needs a point guard, and Jose's one of the few that are available, so they're willing to take on his salary. If Jordan wasn't a fuck up and if the Bobcats had anything at all that we wanted left the deal would already be done.
    they actually have 3 pg's on their roster... i would think they would give all 3 of those pg's a chance b4 committing to $30 millon for the next 3 years.

    but we can hope and pray that they are sooo desperate all we want

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    jose for diaw makes complete sense...

    i have no problem if someone suggested this trade... but when you suggest damp for calderon and evans... like in post #26, that doesnt seem reasonable to me... it may seem reasonable to u but that's fine.

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    Quote vinnie_paz wrote: View Post
    damp's contract is not guaranteed. they can just cut him.

    TJ Ford is available... should every team who needs a pg be begging indy for him ?

    elton brand is available... he is set to make over $80 million in the next 4 years... so any team that needs a PF, should not look at the salary (even though the nba has a salary cap) and just trade for him ?

    gilbert arenas is available ? do we get the point ?

    yes jose is a decent player, but his salary makes him hard to trade, and while we have jack, paying jose 10 million is pointless. so to get rid of him for anyone who has a shorter contract is beneficial to the raps.

    he has also had injuries the past 2 years which have slowed him down.

    to ask a team to not only take his contract so we get some cap flex, but then the other team also has to give us a good player and an unprotected 1st round pick (which is what some have suggested) is simply ridiculous.

    do you agree with any of this ? please tell me if you think i have it wrong anywhere...
    by pattern you mean a decent player with an attitude problem who is an expiring and a damn good player who had a little altercation with a teamate then ya i see your pattern.

    T.j. is an expiring so if he didn't work out for a team he would be done at the end of they year or they could flip him to another team who wants cap space.

    Elton Brand is shit.

    Gilbert Arenas is still a damn good player who will be on the cheap to acquire because he played a joke on a teammate.
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    Quote vinnie_paz wrote: View Post
    why have a $30 million back up plan ? why cant you use part of that money to sign a decent backup pg... example JJ was signed for only $5...
    Its a good point, but most teams struggle mightily with thier back up point guard situation. Finding a cheap, reliable backup is easier in theory than practice. Jose/Jack form a serviceable platoon for the short term and combined they make a reasonable salary for a starting/backup point guard. Whichever one plays with the 2nd unit gives the raps a huge edge and I think a lot of people saw that last year with Jose coming off the bench and immediately erasing deficits. If one gets hurts the other one can step in right away.

    The major problem is that both want to start, both are suited to being backups, they can't play together and one guy makes twice as much as the other guy. I prefer Jack infinitely more than Jose for mostly subjective reasons, but at the end of the day which ever one makes a more positive contribution on the court should get the start. Jose I feel is better equipped to play with the young gunz, but the YG seemed to have pegged Jack as their guy. Either way there is another point guard controversy brewing in raptorland and that is the main reason I think BC is trying to unload Jose.

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    Quote vinnie_paz wrote: View Post
    they actually have 3 pg's on their roster... i would think they would give all 3 of those pg's a chance b4 committing to $30 millon for the next 3 years.
    t
    You would think, but somehow it doesn't seem like it based on the shamelessness of the Bobcats daring to even contact the Raps again after the Chandler bullshit. Takes a certain amount of desperation to still ask for a trade with someone after everyone and their grandma knows you fucked them over pretty bad.

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    Quote Kennay wrote: View Post
    I'm just pointing out none of your examples fit the situation here . Which brings up the point that there are no other situations around the league that are comparable, so forget that.
    philly - brand (overpaid) have speights
    raps - calderon (overpaid) have JJ
    wash - Gilbert (overpaid) have wall

    why dont these examples fit ?

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