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Thread: Historical Average By NBA Big Men Set Long Odds For Bargs Becoming A Big Time Scorer

  1. #21
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    I don't think that the Raps need Bargs to be a big time scorer, this season,
    or any other season. He just has to improve in all the aspects of the game.
    His biggest strength and benefit to the Raps is versatility, not scoring.

  2. #22
    Raptors Republic Rookie big red's Avatar
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    Quote Letter N wrote: View Post
    Life is chock-full of lies, but the biggest lie is math. That's particularly clear in the discipline of probability, a field of study that's completely and wholly fake. When push comes to shove—when you truly get down to the core essence of existence—there is only one mathematical possibility: Everything is 50-50. Either something will happen, or something will not.

    When you flip a coin what are the odds of it coming up heads? 50-50. Either it will be heads, or it will not. When you roll a six-sided die, what are the odds that you'll roll a three? 50-50. You'll either get a three, or you won't. That's reality. Don't fall into the childish "it's one-in-six" logic trap. That is precisely what all your adolescent authority figures want you to believe. That's how they enslave you. That's how they stole your conviction, and that's why you'll never be happy. Either you will roll a three, or you will not; there are no other alternatives. The future has no memory. Certain things can be impossible, and certain things can be guaranteed—but there is no sliding scale for maybe. Maybe something will happen, or maybe it won't. That's all there is. What are the chances your sister will die from ovarian cancer next summer? 50-50 (either she'll die from ovarian cancer or she won't). What are the chances that your sister will become America's most respected underwater welding specialist? 50-50. It will happen, or it won't. There are two possibilities and both are plausible and unknown. The odds are 2:1. These facts are irrefutable.

    Quasi-intellectuals like to claim that math is spiritual. They are lying. Math is not religion. Math is the antireligion, because it splinters the gravity of life's only imperative equation: Either something is true, or it isn't. Do or do not; there is no try.

    - Chuck Klosterman, "Sex, Drugs and Cocoa Puffs."

    This is the kind of thinking that makes casino owners drool.

  3. #23
    Raptors Republic Rookie RecklessIndifference's Avatar
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    Quote Tim W. wrote: View Post
    I'm sorry, did you actually watch that season? Bargnani was half decent, but no where near Roy's level. I'm sorry, but if you think Bargnani could have won the Rookie of the Year Award over Roy had Bargnani played more minutes, then I think you desperately need to watch more Portland games. Roy was, and is a far, far better player than Bargnani ever was or will be. Period.
    Don't be so apologetic, you're allowed an opinion.

  4. #24
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    @Buddahfan

    There are a couple of big men you missed I believe....Elvin Hayes & Spencer Haywood. But they as well "regressed" on the scoring after 3-4 yrs. Hayes was more consistent though for a longer period, even on the rebounding.

    http://www.basketball-reference.com/...hayesel01.html

    In re Bargs odds improving I would be willing to forgo the odds as per your research simply because of his background and the fact that many if not all of the bigs you use (and mine) were prime if not #1 scoring options on their teams. This year will be the first that Bargs can take a hold of that position. I still think it is a mental thing with him...lets see if without Bosh his attitude changes.

  5. #25
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    Default Could Bargs work at the PF spot?

    Okay guys, knowing that we're looking at Bargs' numbers and knowing that a massive rebounding improvement is less than likely, maybe it's time to start looking at Bargs at the PF?

    If you did a really BASE look at his numbers compared to the list of the top PF's in the league, and make the long shot assumptions that he would be able to produce the same numbers in the PF spot, he seems like a more managable fit????

    Numbers for PF's
    http://tinyurl.com/272z77f

    Numbers for C's
    http://tinyurl.com/2fplx7k

    Numbers for FC's (omitted on original post...sorry)
    http://tinyurl.com/26m9pz8


    Thoughts anyone?
    Last edited by vulcanoboy; Mon Aug 16th, 2010 at 01:34 PM. Reason: forgot one link...... FC

  6. #26
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    Tim W: Did you watch the 06-07 season? Portland finished tied for 25th in the league that year...Also, Roy played 2015 mins (35.4 per game) and started in 52 games while Bargs only played 1629 mins.( 25.1 mins per game) and started 2 games...My point again, is that Roy was allowed to pad his stats on a bad team THAT YEAR while Bargs was very limited...

  7. #27
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    Quote RaptorRoo wrote: View Post
    Tim W: Did you watch the 06-07 season? Portland finished tied for 25th in the league that year...Also, Roy played 2015 mins (35.4 per game) and started in 52 games while Bargs only played 1629 mins.( 25.1 mins per game) and started 2 games...My point again, is that Roy was allowed to pad his stats on a bad team THAT YEAR while Bargs was very limited...
    Yes, I watched that season, and Roy showed he was simply a better player, no matter what his team was like. Roy has shown he has been a far better player than Bargnani every single season they've been in the league. I can't believe you're actually suggesting otherwise. Even Colangelo admitted that Roy is a better player.

  8. #28
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    Quote vulcanoboy wrote: View Post
    Okay guys, knowing that we're looking at Bargs' numbers and knowing that a massive rebounding improvement is less than likely, maybe it's time to start looking at Bargs at the PF?

    If you did a really BASE look at his numbers compared to the list of the top PF's in the league, and make the long shot assumptions that he would be able to produce the same numbers in the PF spot, he seems like a more managable fit????

    Numbers for PF's
    http://tinyurl.com/272z77f

    Numbers for C's
    http://tinyurl.com/2fplx7k

    Numbers for FC's (omitted on original post...sorry)
    http://tinyurl.com/26m9pz8


    Thoughts anyone?
    Bargnani's rebounding numbers would look even worse if he was exclusively matched up against PFs. His quickness advantage, which is really the only thing he has going for him athletically, would be totally negated by your typical athletic PF. They'd beat him to the ball and jump over him all night long.

  9. #29
    Raptors Republic Rookie RaptorRoo's Avatar
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    Tim W: Where did I "suggest" that Bargs is a better player than Roy??? Read my post again so you can come to your senses...I stated that Bargs would of won the ROOKIE AWARD that season, NOT that he is better than Roy at this point...Oh, and find that "quote" where BC definitively said he thought Roy was better than Bargs. What's that? it doesn't exist, yaa because he never said that...

  10. #30
    Raptors Republic Veteran Buddahfan's Avatar
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    Quote Brasky wrote: View Post
    Bargnani's rebounding numbers would look even worse if he was exclusively matched up against PFs. His quickness advantage, which is really the only thing he has going for him athletically, would be totally negated by your typical athletic PF. They'd beat him to the ball and jump over him all night long.
    +1
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  11. #31
    Raptors Republic Veteran Buddahfan's Avatar
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    According to 82games.com Bargnani matched up a lot more favorably the last two seasons against Centers than he did against Power Forwards

    I am just going to type and not bring the stats.

    Was that a collective sigh of relief I just heard being exhaled.

    I digress

    However, I will talk about them and put the link where you all can go and see them for yourselves.

    Oh No!

    If you go to 82games.com and check Bargani's match up stats from the last two seasons you will see that in both seasons 08-09 and 09-10 he matched up much more favorably against Centers then he did Power Forwards

    http://www.82games.com/
    Last edited by Buddahfan; Mon Aug 16th, 2010 at 04:02 PM.
    Avatar: Riverboat Coffee House 134 Yorkville Ave. billboard of upcoming entertainers - Circa 1960s

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    “As a captain, I played furiously. I drew a lot of fouls, but I brought everything I had to every practice and to every game. I left everything on the court because I simply wanted the team to win”
    Quote from well known personality who led their high school team to a state championship.

  12. #32
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    Quote mr.grinch wrote: View Post
    doesnt that mean amir will only average 8 ppg for his career
    lol

  13. #33
    Raptors Republic Veteran Buddahfan's Avatar
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    Quote Macc wrote: View Post
    lol
    Time out.

    The 30 games after the all-star break didn't count at all

    Lets use his ppg before the all-star break of 5.2

    This way we have gotten the Raptors in the playoffs in 09-10

    The league needs to replay the playoffs

    After all why, Bosh was healthy at the all-star break.

    I think 5.2 ppg makes more sense than 8.0 ppg

    Now hold a minute, why even use the 09-10 pre all-star numbers?

    Lets use his 08-09 numbers of 3.5

    So you choose

    08-09---------------------3.5 ppg
    09-10 pre-all star----------5.2 ppg
    09-10 post all-star---------8.0 ppg
    Or maybe Apr 2010--------13.4 ppg


    See a trend here?
    Last edited by Buddahfan; Mon Aug 16th, 2010 at 09:45 PM.
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    “As a captain, I played furiously. I drew a lot of fouls, but I brought everything I had to every practice and to every game. I left everything on the court because I simply wanted the team to win”
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  14. #34
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    Quote RaptorRoo wrote: View Post
    Tim W: Where did I "suggest" that Bargs is a better player than Roy??? Read my post again so you can come to your senses...I stated that Bargs would of won the ROOKIE AWARD that season, NOT that he is better than Roy at this point...Oh, and find that "quote" where BC definitively said he thought Roy was better than Bargs. What's that? it doesn't exist, yaa because he never said that...
    Well, if Bargnani was never a better player than ROy, why on earth would Bargnani have won the Rookie of the Year award over Roy? That doesn't make much sense.

    As for the quote, Colangelo has stated numerous times that Roy was the best player to come out of the 1996 draft. The first time was during an interview with RIck Kamla. I can't find the link to the actual interview, but here are a couple of links talking about the interview...
    http://raptortalk.com/2009/07/17/loo...colangelo.aspx
    http://forums.realgm.com/boards/view...926423&start=0
    So in fact he did say it. Sorry.

  15. #35
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    Tim W: ONCE AGAIN, go back and read my post PROPERLY and then it WILL make sense...My POINT is that Bargnani WOULD of won the award that year if he was on a BAD team like Portland was so he could pad his stats or he didn't miss 6 weeks because of his appendix surgery. I NEVER ASSUMED that Bargs is better than Roy overall, I SAID Bargs was better in their rookie seasons, now did the lights come on yet? Also, very convenient that you couldn't find THAT interview because ONCE AGAIN as I stated earlier it doesn't exist because BC NEVER made that comment nor has he "numerous" times...So nice try

  16. #36
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    Buddah most of your players you compare Bargni too went too college for 2-4 years. So when they entered the nba they were 21-22 years of age. SO 3-5 years in means that they're 25-27 years of age. Your blanket comparisons don't stand the test

  17. #37
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    Quote Buddahfan wrote: View Post
    According to 82games.com Bargnani matched up a lot more favorably the last two seasons against Centers than he did against Power Forwards


    If you go to 82games.com and check Bargani's match up stats from the last two seasons you will see that in both seasons 08-09 and 09-10 he matched up much more favorably against Centers then he did Power Forwards

    http://www.82games.com/
    Very cool site! Thanks for the link Buddha.

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