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Thread: Bargs' Defense Not Improved Over The Summer

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    Raptors Republic Starter charlz's Avatar
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    Default Bargs' Defense Not Improved Over The Summer



    Sure I think they want to move him to PF so he can utilize more of his face up game - but alas many players don't improve after 4 years in the league - Bargs is likely one of them who has realized his potential.

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    Raptors Republic Superstar TheGloveinRapsUniform's Avatar
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    Ouch. Man, i hope BC was watchin that game and figure he really NEEDS to get a center. bargs clearly cannot handle bulky centers. I didnt count but it looked like Bargs gave him 3 and-1s. YIKES.

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    Raptors Republic Rookie RecklessIndifference's Avatar
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    I'm not sure why Italy was letting Andrea D him up one on one. It looked like an obvious mis-match.

    Hopefully Triano knows this as well

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    Quote RecklessIndifference wrote: View Post
    I'm not sure why Italy was letting Andrea D him up one on one. It looked like an obvious mis-match.
    Because Bargnani is an NBA player who SHOULD be able to guard his man one on one in international play. Blaming the Italian coaches is really beside the point.

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    Raptors Republic Rookie RecklessIndifference's Avatar
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    Quote Tim W. wrote: View Post
    Because Bargnani is an NBA player who SHOULD be able to guard his man one on one in international play. Blaming the Italian coaches is really beside the point.
    If your man is constantly getting out muscled and put out of position, and basically dominated, you need to make an adjustment.

    From what I hear in scouting reports on Nikola Pekovic they should have known this going in.

    So no, it is not "beside the point". The Italian coaches either a) made a huge mistake in their defensive scheme or b) did not have the personel to do anything about it.

    So my point is, seeing this I hope Triano has an idea what he is dealing with when he is thinking about starting Andrea at the C position.

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    Quote RecklessIndifference wrote: View Post
    If your man is constantly getting out muscled and put out of position, and basically dominated, you need to make an adjustment.

    From what I hear in scouting reports on Nikola Pekovic they should have known this going in.

    So no, it is not "beside the point". The Italian coaches either a) made a huge mistake in their defensive scheme or b) did not have the personel to do anything about it.

    So my point is, seeing this I hope Triano has an idea what he is dealing with when he is thinking about starting Andrea at the C position.
    I don't personally care what the Italian coaches did, but the point is that Bargnani was dominated by a player who hasn't played a minute in the NBA. And I would rather Colangelo has seen this and decided to trade him.

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    Raptors Republic Superstar TheGloveinRapsUniform's Avatar
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    Quote Tim W. wrote: View Post
    I don't personally care what the Italian coaches did, but the point is that Bargnani was dominated by a player who hasn't played a minute in the NBA. And I would rather Colangelo has seen this and decided to trade him.
    i dont think that matters. not all the best players play in the NBA.

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    Raptors Republic Rookie RecklessIndifference's Avatar
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    Quote Tim W. wrote: View Post
    I don't personally care what the Italian coaches did, but the point is that Bargnani was dominated by a player who hasn't played a minute in the NBA. And I would rather Colangelo has seen this and decided to trade him.
    I think it's more important that Triano and his staff create the right defensive system, rather than trade away our best offensive player

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    Raptors Republic Superstar TheGloveinRapsUniform's Avatar
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    Quote Tim W. wrote: View Post
    Because Bargnani is an NBA player who SHOULD be able to guard his man one on one in international play. Blaming the Italian coaches is really beside the point.
    He should, but if he cant, its up to the coaches to change matchups. thats what theyre being paid for.

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    Quote charlz wrote: View Post
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LxZeZ7JGpPw

    Sure I think they want to move him to PF so he can utilize more of his face up game - but alas many players don't improve after 4 years in the league - Bargs is likely one of them who has realized his potential.
    Being at PF has NOTHING to do with Bargs ability to use his face up game. In fact, his face up game becomes more of a weapon when he's matched up against slower Centres.

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    Raptors Republic Veteran Buddahfan's Avatar
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    Quote Brasky wrote: View Post
    Being at PF has NOTHING to do with Bargs ability to use his face up game. In fact, his face up game becomes more of a weapon when he's matched up against slower Centres.

    +1
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    Quote Brasky wrote: View Post
    Being at PF has NOTHING to do with Bargs ability to use his face up game. In fact, his face up game becomes more of a weapon when he's matched up against slower Centres.
    come to think of it, you are right. maybe thats why the raps have been playing him on the 5 all along. a scoring center is quite rare so on any given night, bargs doesnt really have to exert that much effort playing one on one D on a 5. now if he moves to the PF position, the more his defensive weakness will be exploited coz he will have to guard the likes of Bosh, Dirk, Aldrige....maybe a shot blocking PF is what we needed all along....anybody mentioned ED DAVIS??? whoa!

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    Raptors Republic Starter charlz's Avatar
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    Default Andrea Defence

    Quote Brasky wrote: View Post
    Being at PF has NOTHING to do with Bargs ability to use his face up game. In fact, his face up game becomes more of a weapon when he's matched up against slower Centres.
    The problem is the arc gets a little crowded when even your C is out there lining up for a 3.

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    Quote charlz wrote: View Post
    The problem is the arc gets a little crowded when even your C is out there lining up for a 3.
    What, because Amir Johnson and Ed Davis will be hanging out behind the 3 point line? Bargnani will be jacking up 3s no matter what position 'label' you give him. And at this point in his career, taking him away from the arc would be a waste of his limited talents.

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    Raptors Republic Starter charlz's Avatar
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    Quote Brasky wrote: View Post
    What, because Amir Johnson and Ed Davis will be hanging out behind the 3 point line? Bargnani will be jacking up 3s no matter what position 'label' you give him. And at this point in his career, taking him away from the arc would be a waste of his limited talents.
    well yeah thats the idea - but last year with Hedo/Roasho out there - CB was on his own in the key area - and even he was resorting to the J.
    All of which contributed to the raptors being such a terrible rebounding and defending team.

    Now you will see Davis/Alabi/Amir and even Kleiza posting up. whilst Bargs runs to his favorite spot on the ARC. And since they are fringe NBA guys you know they want to please the boss - rebound and repost to Bargs where ever he is.

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    Quote charlz wrote: View Post
    well yeah thats the idea - but last year with Hedo/Roasho out there - CB was on his own in the key area - and even he was resorting to the J.
    All of which contributed to the raptors being such a terrible rebounding and defending team.

    Now you will see Davis/Alabi/Amir and even Kleiza posting up. whilst Bargs runs to his favorite spot on the ARC. And since they are fringe NBA guys you know they want to please the boss - rebound and repost to Bargs where ever he is.
    You really think so?

    Interesting.

    Stay tuned for Raptors basketball 10-11.

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    Just saw the hi-lites. That's just depressing. I don't know why people are so on Calderon's case when it is clear this guy is the biggest hindrance our team has had. If you gave me the choice between a bad defending pg who was an excellent distributor with low turn overs OR a Big with poor defense and rebounding but could hit the three guess which one every other team in the NBA would pick? He's not a 4 either. How could this iceberg slow 5 keep up with any pf? Coaches have lost jobs over this guy. If he truly has value, move him already.

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    I wouldn't worry about Andrea's one-to-one defense game, he held his own against other big centers last season. What I would like to see from Andrea defense improved is the team defense. But this would require a good defensive coach to came up with a team defense plan that works for Raptors and Andrea.

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    Quote insight_tor wrote: View Post
    I wouldn't worry about Andrea's one-to-one defense game, he held his own against other big centers last season. What I would like to see from Andrea defense improved is the team defense. But this would require a good defensive coach to came up with a team defense plan that works for Raptors and Andrea.
    Exactly. Bargnani proved to be quite competent last year in one on one situations, especially in the post.
    Last edited by Brasky; Mon Aug 16th, 2010 at 03:31 PM.

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    Seems to be exactly the kind of match-up that Bargnani is poor against one-on-one: quick, big, and knows how to use both to his advantage. He kinda reminds me of Demarcus Cousins (minus the jump shot). I don't think it matters that he hasn't played a minute in the NBA (he'll be with the TWolves next season). That's like saying there aren't any good players in International ball that aren't in the NBA.

    That said Bargnani's passion for defense is as nonexistent as ever. It's like he doesn't even try, and relies too much on his size. And I do hope that Colangelo takes the first few months of this season to really ask himself if Bargnani (and his job) is worth keeping. My take is still that he isn't worth anything more than a first big off the bench for offense. Good offensive player, but does not cut it as a starter due to lack of defensive skills and instincts.

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