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Thread: Bargs' Defense Not Improved Over The Summer

  1. #41
    Raptors Republic Veteran Buddahfan's Avatar
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    Quote charlz wrote: View Post
    well yeah thats the idea - but last year with Hedo/Roasho out there - CB was on his own in the key area - and even he was resorting to the J.
    All of which contributed to the raptors being such a terrible rebounding and defending team.

    Now you will see Davis/Alabi/Amir and even Kleiza posting up. whilst Bargs runs to his favorite spot on the ARC. And since they are fringe NBA guys you know they want to please the boss - rebound and repost to Bargs where ever he is.
    You really think so?

    Interesting.

    Stay tuned for Raptors basketball 10-11.

    You might be surprised
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  2. #42
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    Guys, I think we're underestimating the talent of Nikola Pekovic... he was projected to go as high as top 5 in the 2008 NBA Draft, but he fell to the second round because he was contractually committed to his European club long-term. Not sure what happened between then and now. Anyway, it's quite possible he'll be part of a two-man race with Darko for the starting center spot in Minny.

    Just sayin'... he's not exactly a scrub. Easily one of the best non-NBA players over the past few years.

  3. #43
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    Quote charlz wrote: View Post


    Sure I think they want to move him to PF so he can utilize more of his face up game - but alas many players don't improve after 4 years in the league - Bargs is likely one of them who has realized his potential.
    I couldn't bear to watch Bargs' defense in the video for too long, when scrubs like Pekovic are lighting your ass as an NBA player, you must really suck on defense. I think it is time for BC to let go of his prized possession if he can't rebound, can't box out, can't set solid screens, continues to stay at the 3 point line when he is supposed to be in there banging with guys in the paint and can't show an improved semblance of help defense coming season.

    It is also time for MLSE to fire BC and get either Jerry West, Kevin Pritchard or Steve Kerr(in order of preference but Jerry is expensive(about $12m a year to call him out of retirement)) or can go cheap and tab assistant managers from winning small market teams with shrewd drafting in the San Antonio Spurs, Portland Trailblazers and the Oklahoma City Thunder if MLSE wants to get fans back in the seats after this season(could be like the Jays attendance this season or fans could be real stupid like the Maple Leaf fans(or maybe those fans just love pain and disappointment?) and sell out Raptors games, if they sell out the Raptors games then MLSE does not need to worry as their cash cow is still there which is sad to me as a fan - owners should only own NBA teams if they are willing to spend to get teams more competitive like the NFL model discounting the Cleveland Browns and the post 1980's(possibly 90's)Oakland Raiders).

    You all know why I think BC is not a capable GM(bad negotiating skills - always overpaying, turning Raptors into Phoenix North when we don't have an Hall-of-Famer PG in Steve Nash, his complete disregard for defense(the less exciting part that is important for playoff and championship contenders in the NBA) and his man-love for Andrea Bargnani - a big man that can not rebound, box out, set solid screens, play defense and do what big men in the NBA usually do). I think he is at most a used car salesman that hypes his product, only for such gullible customer to notice immediately he bought a mediocre product and has buyer's remorse as a result.

    Sorry for the double post..

  4. #44
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    Just saw the hi-lites. That's just depressing. I don't know why people are so on Calderon's case when it is clear this guy is the biggest hindrance our team has had. If you gave me the choice between a bad defending pg who was an excellent distributor with low turn overs OR a Big with poor defense and rebounding but could hit the three guess which one every other team in the NBA would pick? He's not a 4 either. How could this iceberg slow 5 keep up with any pf? Coaches have lost jobs over this guy. If he truly has value, move him already.

  5. #45
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    Quote Lark Benson wrote: View Post
    The problem I continue to have with Bargnani's defense is that he just doesn't play hard. What separates a mediocre defender in the NBA from a quality defender is often how much intensity they bring to that end of the floor when the player they're guarding doesn't have the ball, how quickly they are moving their feet to adjust to the positioning of the players around them, how difficult they make an offensive player's life by pestering, bodying and harassing them into spots they shouldn't be in or aren't comfortable in, creating lower percentage looks and broken plays. Bargs just floats around and lets the offensive player initiate all of the action, allowing them to slip into cracks, to carve out space and to get to their spots. It's not just one bad game, he's that listless nearly every night.
    +1. Defense is about intensity and effort(ask the defensive minded Celtics coach - Doc Rivers).Even if you are a human pylon like Jose Calderon, once your guy beats you and there is no help - foul him hard and make sure to avoid an and 1, and you can always use the Derek Fisher bread and butter(even though I consider it a sort of flopping) - taking a charge without moving your legs and outside the black restriction line and you get an offensive foul and turnover against your opponent and an extra possession for your team. It is not too much to ask and when Bargs as a big man can not box out(how fundamental is boxing out? This is what every big man first learns to do), then it might be time to trade him or bring him off the bench(even though he will be overpaid as a bench player - the classic Jose Calderon's situation which is terrible - I prefer trading Bargs instead to be another head coach's headache).

  6. #46
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    Quote jrdyck wrote: View Post
    Guys, I think we're underestimating the talent of Nikola Pekovic... he was projected to go as high as top 5 in the 2008 NBA Draft, but he fell to the second round because he was contractually committed to his European club long-term. Not sure what happened between then and now. Anyway, it's quite possible he'll be part of a two-man race with Darko for the starting center spot in Minny.

    Just sayin'... he's not exactly a scrub. Easily one of the best non-NBA players over the past few years.
    Yep, Pekovic is good, very good. You need a time defense to stop someone like him...

    All-Euroleague Second Team: (2008)
    Won the Greek Cup: (2009)
    Won 2 Greek Championships: (2009, 2010)
    All-Euroleague First Team: (2009)
    Won the Euroleague Championship: (2009)
    Won the Triple Crown: (2009)

  7. #47
    Raptors Republic Rookie brakeman1's Avatar
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    if this is our franchise player were f%#ked. Imagin what the NBA will do with him this year, he's playing against a bunch of international scrubs and can't dominate the game on either end of the floor. Youre the #1 pick in the NBA. What are you going to do against Bosh, Bozer, Gasol, Garnett and company.
    Last edited by brakeman1; Mon Aug 16th, 2010 at 10:09 PM.

  8. #48
    Raptors Republic Rookie RecklessIndifference's Avatar
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    Quote dn66 wrote: View Post
    Yep, Pekovic is good, very good. You need a time defense to stop someone like him...

    All-Euroleague Second Team: (2008)
    Won the Greek Cup: (2009)
    Won 2 Greek Championships: (2009, 2010)
    All-Euroleague First Team: (2009)
    Won the Euroleague Championship: (2009)
    Won the Triple Crown: (2009)
    This. And from what I've read, and even from what this video shows, his game should translate to the NBA pretty smoothly

  9. #49
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    Quote RecklessIndifference wrote: View Post
    This. And from what I've read, and even from what this video shows, his game should translate to the NBA pretty smoothly
    He should look really good with Love.

    Bargani and Davis

    vs

    Pekovic and Love
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  10. #50
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    I love bargnani but the fact is he needs some real help. And when I mean help I mean HELP. I thinkk bryan needs to send him to the raptors basketball academy so that he can learn how to box out and learn the fundamentals of DEFENCE.

  11. #51
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    Quote shazzy wrote: View Post
    I love bargnani but the fact is he needs some real help. And when I mean help I mean HELP. I thinkk bryan needs to send him to the raptors basketball academy so that he can learn how to box out and learn the fundamentals of DEFENCE.
    Lol with the BC sending Bargs to the Raptors Basketball Academy to learn how to box out and learn the fundamentals of defence. . I thought Bargs should have learn't that few years ago.

  12. #52
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    There is no limit to the amount of excuses Bargnani gets:

    The coaches left him to dry. Triano is much smarter than that. He'll send an extra defender every night to double Barg's man.

    Pekovic is an allstar in disguise.

    His naturally position is PF therefore when labeled as a C he can't play defense, because, he's a PF.

    His teammates fault for letting dribble penetration. Who care's if most defensive schemes have the guards funneling their man to the help defender (usually, the C).

    Bargs is the type of player that everyone else on the floor should have to compensate for. He's that good.

    Every good player has a bad game. Coincidentally Bargs has a lot of bad games. Doesn't mean anything.

    If everyone was as good as a one-on-one defender as Bargs, we wouldn't need him to improve his team defense.

    -----------------------------------------------------------------------

    All this from only one thread. I'm sure the list will grow as the view/replies increase.
    Last edited by Krix; Tue Aug 17th, 2010 at 12:56 AM.

  13. #53
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    Quote RecklessIndifference wrote: View Post
    I think it's more important that Triano and his staff create the right defensive system, rather than trade away our best offensive player
    I think it's more important to have a roster of players that don't have fatal flaws. Bargnani may be the Raptors best offensive player, but that says more about the roster than it does about Bargnani. If you want to keep Bargnani because he is an important piece of the foundation of the future of the franchise, then fine. But don't keep him because he's the best offensive player on a team without a lot of good offensive players. That;s kind of ridiculous, especially considering this is a lottery team.

    Quote tbihis wrote: View Post
    We all know Bargs defense is not the best, but we cant keep saying that colangelo needs to trade him just because of his poor defensive skills. You cant all be thinking that BC is so dumb that he doesnt know Bargs cant play D. He knows. Everybody knows. BC and his staff knew before they drafted bargs, im pretty sure that scouting report on him had 0 beside defense. But thats not why BC drafted him, he's a 7 footer who can create his own shot, dribble penetrate and shoot the 3. if you put a defensive center beside him, he's golden. thats why bosh never took the raps anywhere because he cant play D and neither does his center (bargs). Dirk has taken the mavs far coz he's always had damp, and now haywood. bargs was drafted for his offense and not defense so quit forcing him to play D. in the nba, you dont get players because you want to turn them into something, you get them for who they are. if youre a GM and you get an offensive minded player to get him to play defense then youre screwed. BC knows bargs cannot rebound or play D, just look at the players he's surrounding bargs now.
    Bargnani is not simply a player with poor defensive skills. He's a 7 footer who can't play team defense, is an extremely poor rebounder and cannot actually create his own shot very well. He can go past guys who fall for his pump fake, but his shooting percentage goes WAY down the moment he puts the ball on the floor. He doesn't move well without the ball, has no move except for a pump fake and drive right, and is a passable, at best, post player who doesn't draw fouls.

    If you put a good defensive center beside him, he'll still be a poor defensive and rebounding 7 footer who needs help to score. You can surround him with better defensive players, but this isn't Steve Nash we're talking about here. Bargnani isn't that good on offense that you need to build around him and protect him on the defensive end. He's a half decent scorer and scoring is his BIGGEST strength. I mean, if this were a Kevin Durant-type talent on the offensive end, I can see trying to build around him. But he's not even close to that. This is, quite frankly, a half decent player that shouldn't even be the second option on a good team. Why adjust the entire team for a player like that?

  14. #54
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    Did no one read what I wrote about Bargnani's defense in my post about my favorite player? HAHA

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    Another retarded thread by the once respected buddah. ANdrea was matched up once one on one with peckovic. I wish that you and Tim would stop producing such useless garbage that borders on SLANDER. THat whole video is pick and rolls and someone else is guarding Pekovic. YOU TWO CLOWNS WOULD SLANDER ANDREA EVEN IF YOU DIDN"T GET PAID to do it

  16. #56
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    So let me get this straight:

    Bargnani, while playing on a very poor Italian squad, got abused defensively in the euroleague and is therefore not going to improve in defense in the NBA.

    Linas Kleiza, who played on a very good Olymiakos squad, averaged 17 ppg but won't be able to be an offensive threat in the NBA.

    Yep, makes perfect sense to me.

  17. #57
    Raptors Republic Veteran Buddahfan's Avatar
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    Quote Frankthetank wrote: View Post
    Another retarded thread by the once respected buddah. ANdrea was matched up once one on one with peckovic. I wish that you and Tim would stop producing such useless garbage that borders on SLANDER. THat whole video is pick and rolls and someone else is guarding Pekovic. YOU TWO CLOWNS WOULD SLANDER ANDREA EVEN IF YOU DIDN"T GET PAID to do it
    I don't believe that I started this thread? Just saying

    Are you upset?

    Or this post reflective of your normal state of mind?

    Just asking
    Last edited by Buddahfan; Tue Aug 17th, 2010 at 09:08 AM.
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  18. #58
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    Quote Marz wrote: View Post
    So let me get this straight:

    Bargnani, while playing on a very poor Italian squad, got abused defensively in the euroleague and is therefore not going to improve in defense in the NBA.

    Linas Kleiza, who played on a very good Olymiakos squad, averaged 17 ppg but won't be able to be an offensive threat in the NBA.

    Yep, makes perfect sense to me.
    I think you are wrong about Kleiza.

    Kleiza was inconsistent in his scoring at Denver primarily because he was Melo's, he got to rest a few minutes, guy.

    But when Kleiza plays consistent minutes he has shown with Denver that he can fill it up.

    The question is can Kleiza fill it up in the NBA when he starts and plays 30 mpg?

    I wouldn't bet against him averaging 15 + per game in 10-11

    We will find out
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    “As a captain, I played furiously. I drew a lot of fouls, but I brought everything I had to every practice and to every game. I left everything on the court because I simply wanted the team to win”
    Quote from well known personality who led their high school team to a state championship.

  19. #59
    Raptors Republic Rookie RecklessIndifference's Avatar
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    Quote Buddahfan wrote: View Post
    He should look really good with Love.

    Bargani and Davis

    vs

    Pekovic and Love
    With Ridnour, Flynn and Webster on the perimiter the T-Wolves are't looking too bad. Too bad they are stuck out west.

    Also it's too bad that they will prob start Darko and Love. I hope I'm wrong.

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    Quote Buddahfan wrote: View Post
    I think you are wrong about Kleiza.

    Kleiza was inconsistent in his scoring at Denver primarily because he was Melo's, he got to rest a few minutes, guy.

    But when Kleiza plays consistent minutes he has shown with Denver that he can fill it up.

    The question is can Kleiza fill it up in the NBA when he starts and plays 30 mpg?

    I wouldn't bet against him averaging 15 + per game in 10-11

    We will find out
    I think you misunderstood my post. I was pointing out the irony. Several people don't think that Kleiza's offense will translate from euroleague to the NBA, but everyone in this thread thinks that Bargnani's defense (or lack there of) will translate from europe to the NBA.

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