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Thread: Bargs' Defense Not Improved Over The Summer

  1. #61
    Raptors Republic Veteran Buddahfan's Avatar
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    Quote RecklessIndifference wrote: View Post
    With Ridnour, Flynn and Webster on the perimiter the T-Wolves are't looking too bad. Too bad they are stuck out west.

    Also it's too bad that they will prob start Darko and Love. I hope I'm wrong.
    A lot of fans and those in the LSSM aren't to high on Love's game. His defense can be improved, However for player that has come in off of the bench in his first two years in the league; i.e; 82 games vs 59 he has still managed to have averaged a career double double rounded off. I don't know of any other player in NBA history that has averaged a career double double primarily coming off of the bench. Do you?

    On top of that he is one of the best passing big men in the NBA and has a high basketball IQ.

    Career Nos

    MPG------26.7
    PPG-------12.3
    RPG-------9.9
    FG%------.455
    FT%------.801
    PER--------19.4
    Off Rat-----113
    Def Rat-----109
    WS/48------.131

    In his two years with the T-Wolves his Wn Shares are greater than 25% of the T-Wolves win total. Only a couple of percentage points below Bosh's Wins Shares percentage of total Raptor wins over the same period.

    http://www.basketball-reference.com/.../loveke01.html
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  2. #62
    Raptors Republic Veteran Buddahfan's Avatar
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    Quote Marz wrote: View Post
    I think you misunderstood my post. I was pointing out the irony. Several people don't think that Kleiza's offense will translate from euroleague to the NBA, but everyone in this thread thinks that Bargnani's defense (or lack there of) will translate from europe to the NBA.
    My bad on my last comment regarding your post.

    I agree with what you posted above
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    “As a captain, I played furiously. I drew a lot of fouls, but I brought everything I had to every practice and to every game. I left everything on the court because I simply wanted the team to win”
    Quote from well known personality who led their high school team to a state championship.

  3. #63
    Raptors Republic All-Star hateslosing's Avatar
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    I would just like to point out that while the defense Bargs showed was poor, the video shows that it was a team problem not just his. If you watch the video closely you'll see that on a good many of the plays that Bargs is not the man originally guarding Mr. Pekovic and alot of the plays he gets schooled on were when he was coming over to help and had to leave pekovic. On the plays that he got beat pretty bad of an entry pass you can see that no one came over to help and he was basically left to guard a very quick 7 footer guy that outweighs him buy 15 pounds in the low post. I know we all expect better from our starting center, but I don't think this is as much of an indictment as some of you make it out to be. Wait till Christmas to make your judgements.
    "When Life gives you lemons, you clone those Lemons to make super lemons!"
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  4. #64
    Raptors Republic Rookie RecklessIndifference's Avatar
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    Quote Buddahfan wrote: View Post
    A lot of fans and those in the LSSM aren't to high on Love's game. His defense can be improved, However for player that has come in off of the bench in his first two years in the league; i.e; 82 games vs 59 he has still managed to have averaged a career double double rounded off. I don't know of any other player in NBA history that has averaged a career double double primarily coming off of the bench. Do you?

    On top of that he is one of the best passing big men in the NBA and has a high basketball IQ.

    Career Nos

    MPG------26.7
    PPG-------12.3
    RPG-------9.9
    FG%------.455
    FT%------.801
    PER--------19.4
    Off Rat-----113
    Def Rat-----109
    WS/48------.131

    In his two years with the T-Wolves his Wn Shares are greater than 25% of the T-Wolves win total. Only a couple of percentage points below Bosh's Wins Shares percentage of total Raptor wins over the same period.

    http://www.basketball-reference.com/.../loveke01.html
    Those are some really interesting stats. To be honest I havn't been paying too much attention to him since he left college. Looks like he could be a key piece to a championship team sometime in the future.

    The only other guy I can think of who put up those kinds of stats off the bench would be Dennis Rodman in Detroit.

  5. #65
    Raptors Republic Veteran Buddahfan's Avatar
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    Quote RecklessIndifference wrote: View Post
    Those are some really interesting stats. To be honest I havn't been paying too much attention to him since he left college. Looks like he could be a key piece to a championship team sometime in the future.

    The only other guy I can think of who put up those kinds of stats off the bench would be Dennis Rodman in Detroit.
    Unfortunately Pistons/Rodman never help him develop his offensive game and the SAS and Bulls basically let what there was of it atrophy, otherwise he might have been a pretty good scorer to go with his defense and possibly one of the best NBA players ever.

    PPG starting with his rookie season

    86-87--------6.5
    87-88--------11.6 -- He could have been a 15-20 ppg guy if the Pistons had helped him develop his offensive game
    88-89--------9.0
    89-90--------8.8
    90-91--------8.2
    91-92--------9.8
    92-93--------7.5
    93-94--------4.7 First season with the Spurs
    94-95--------7.1
    95-96 First season with the Bulls. From that season forward he never averaged over 5.7 per game for the rest of his career

    http://www.basketball-reference.com/...rodmade01.html

    Rodman never could shoot the three ball. Love should become a pretty decent three point shooter and he is a better foul shooter.

    Loves 3FG%
    ------------------
    08-09---10%
    09-10---33%

    I expect it will continue to got upward.

    Actually Love's rebound rate per 36 minutes is greater than Rodman's was in his first two seasons.

    However, Rodman may give hope to the Bargnani fans

    It wasn't until Rodman's sixth season in the league that he became the rebounding machine that we all remember him as.
    (There is always that exception that proves the rule) In his first five years he was very good but not exceptional. All of a sudden in his sixth year his rebounding rate skyrocketed.

    His sixth season was the only time he ever came close to averaging a double double at 9.8 and 12.3
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  6. #66
    Raptors Republic Starter charlz's Avatar
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    Quote Krix wrote: View Post
    There is no limit to the amount of excuses Bargnani gets:

    All this from only one thread. I'm sure the list will grow as the view/replies increase.
    How right you are - and it starts with BC - he has been deflecting criticism away from Bargs since year 1 and a number of the die-hards eat up the spin.

    The reality is he is a 7 footer with above average agility and shot and very below average defending a rebounding - BC will try to make him a volume shooter by surrounding him with blue collar guys.

  7. #67
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    Quote charlz wrote: View Post
    How right you are - and it starts with BC - he has been deflecting criticism away from Bargs since year 1 and a number of the die-hards eat up the spin.

    The reality is he is a 7 footer with above average agility and shot and very below average defending a rebounding - BC will try to make him a volume shooter by surrounding him with blue collar guys.
    Um, "above average" agility and shot? This guy is 7 foot tall, 250 pounds and can run past pretty much every big man in the league. The only other guy I can see do that is LeBron. And his defence is atleast average. C'mon. He looked pretty good in the post last year, he just needs to improve him team-defence and that can be worked on. Yes we might be giving excuses for Bargnani, but he's our hope, if we stop giving him excuses we're just killing his morale, self-esteem and confidence. And it will ruin his career. He needs US fans to help him develop, we don't help, then we just wasted a great talent and 5 years.

  8. #68
    Raptors Republic Rookie RecklessIndifference's Avatar
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    Quote Buddahfan wrote: View Post
    However, Rodman may give hope to the Bargnani fans

    It wasn't until Rodman's sixth season in the league that he became the rebounding machine that we all remember him as.
    (There is always that exception that proves the rule) In his first five years he was very good but not exceptional. All of a sudden in his sixth year his rebounding rate skyrocketed.

    His sixth season was the only time he ever came close to averaging a double double at 9.8 and 12.3
    All he needs is that rapid-trampoline-throwyourelbows style rebounding approach.

    Here's hoping!....

  9. #69
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    Should I be hoping to see Bargnani with blue hair next year? :S

  10. #70
    Raptors Republic Starter charlz's Avatar
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    Quote JoePanini wrote: View Post
    ... Yes we might be giving excuses for Bargnani, but he's our hope, if we stop giving him excuses we're just killing his morale, self-esteem and confidence. And it will ruin his career.
    2 things:
    1) Bargs needs to earn my compliments - I am not going to say nice things if they are not true.
    2) I actually think Bargs confidence and self esteem is self regulated. He is mentally very tough he is not a cry baby head case like Rafer Alston or even Wince Carter for that matter.

  11. #71
    Raptors Republic Rookie RecklessIndifference's Avatar
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    Quote charlz wrote: View Post
    2 things:
    1) Bargs needs to earn my compliments - I am not going to say nice things if they are not true.
    2) I actually think Bargs confidence and self esteem is self regulated. He is mentally very tough he is not a cry baby head case like Rafer Alston or even Wince Carter for that matter.
    Is it weird that I read your comments in the voice of Charles Barkley? Can you bust out some "I'm not a role model... Just because I dunk a basketball doesn't mean I should raise your kids" and "I don't know what that gas is made of, but it can't smell any worse than Ernie Johnson 's gym bag" type quotes in your comments?

  12. #72
    Raptors Republic Starter charlz's Avatar
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    Quote RecklessIndifference wrote: View Post
    Is it weird that I read your comments in the voice of Charles Barkley? Can you bust out some "I'm not a role model... Just because I dunk a basketball doesn't mean I should raise your kids" and "I don't know what that gas is made of, but it can't smell any worse than Ernie Johnson 's gym bag" type quotes in your comments?
    or saying trrrble - LOL - check this vid out

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jKTb5Nfyh1o
    "I may be wrong ... but I doubt it"

  13. #73
    Raptors Republic Rookie RecklessIndifference's Avatar
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    Quote charlz wrote: View Post
    or saying trrrble - LOL - check this vid out

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jKTb5Nfyh1o
    LOL... if you could just work in 'trrible' and 'knucklehead' into every comment that would be great.

    TY

  14. #74
    Raptors Republic Veteran Buddahfan's Avatar
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    Quote charlz wrote: View Post
    How right you are - and it starts with BC - he has been deflecting criticism away from Bargs since year 1 and a number of the die-hards eat up the spin.

    The reality is he is a 7 footer with above average agility and shot and very below average defending a rebounding - BC will try to make him a volume shooter by surrounding him with blue collar guys.
    I doubt that because BC wants to keep his job.
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    “As a captain, I played furiously. I drew a lot of fouls, but I brought everything I had to every practice and to every game. I left everything on the court because I simply wanted the team to win”
    Quote from well known personality who led their high school team to a state championship.

  15. #75
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    Quote RecklessIndifference wrote: View Post
    All he needs is that rapid-trampoline-throwyourelbows style rebounding approach.

    Here's hoping!....
    You mean like this guy

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    “As a captain, I played furiously. I drew a lot of fouls, but I brought everything I had to every practice and to every game. I left everything on the court because I simply wanted the team to win”
    Quote from well known personality who led their high school team to a state championship.

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    No wonder basketball players don't want to come to Toronto. With moron fans that setup 6 blogs in two weeks about the same stupid topic. I use to think that Toronto fans were getting a higher basketball IQ untill I started to read these blogs on raptors republic. How much can you beat a DEAD HORSE. Bargni has improved every year and has slowly become a good player but will he become a great player only time will tell. Hopefully this is the last blog about the same topic. When season starts you can evaluate Bargni's game all you like but this is a pointless THREAD

  17. #77
    Raptors Republic Rookie RecklessIndifference's Avatar
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    Quote Frankthetank wrote: View Post
    No wonder basketball players don't want to come to Toronto. With moron fans that setup 6 blogs in two weeks about the same stupid topic. I use to think that Toronto fans were getting a higher basketball IQ untill I started to read these blogs on raptors republic. How much can you beat a DEAD HORSE. Bargni has improved every year and has slowly become a good player but will he become a great player only time will tell. Hopefully this is the last blog about the same topic. When season starts you can evaluate Bargni's game all you like but this is a pointless THREAD
    This happens in the 'blog and message board' world no matter the sport or team or activity.

    It has nothing to do with the fans IQ level

  18. #78
    Raptors Republic Rookie RecklessIndifference's Avatar
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    Quote Buddahfan wrote: View Post
    You mean like this guy

    nnahh he's all offense, we are looking for people to play defense this season

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    Scoring 22 points in 20 minutes currently against israel. http://live.fibaeurope.com/netcasting/Default.asp?

  20. #80
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    Quote Frankthetank wrote: View Post
    Scoring 22 points in 20 minutes currently against israel. http://live.fibaeurope.com/netcasting/Default.asp?
    Against Israel? RFLMAO

    Italy is ranked 8th in FIBA
    Israel 25th

    One can only imagine how many points Bargs would score in 20 minutes against Liberia or The People's Republic of Congo

    http://www.fiba.com/pages/eng/fc/even/rank/rankMen.asp
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    “As a captain, I played furiously. I drew a lot of fouls, but I brought everything I had to every practice and to every game. I left everything on the court because I simply wanted the team to win”
    Quote from well known personality who led their high school team to a state championship.

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