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Thread: Bargs' Defense Not Improved Over The Summer

  1. #101
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    Quote RecklessIndifference wrote: View Post
    I think it would be more in the line's of 'will the piston's rape the clippers'... and I would be inclined to say 'maybe'.

    But comparing NBA teams and matchups to international teams and matchups is pretty irrelevant
    My analogy was just meant to state the obvious: past glory means nothing on present performances.

  2. #102
    Raptors Republic Rookie RecklessIndifference's Avatar
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    Quote maman wrote: View Post
    My analogy was just meant to state the obvious: past glory means nothing on present performances.
    fair enough

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    Raptors Republic Veteran Buddahfan's Avatar
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    Quote maman wrote: View Post
    well done buddahfan, you exposed your deep ignorance of international basket in just 4 lines!
    Do you even know who forms the rosters of Italy and Israel? Do you know that that ranking still reflects Italy silver medal at the olympics of 2004? Do you know that there is no player in the current roster that played in that olympics? Do you know that Israel has 6 players playing for major euroleagues teams and one in the NBA while Italy 2 NBA, no players in major European teams and 1 in the italian second league team? Do you even have any idea how hard is to play an official game in Israel?
    Do you actually care about posting any informed comment or is just your unexplainable obsession with Amir pushing you?
    P.s.: Bargnani scored 26 and single handedly beated Israel.
    I don't believe that either team is in the upcoming FIBA tournament.

    I used the only rankings currently available and provide by FIBA.

    If Israel were in the upcoming tournament then I would agree with you but they are not.

    http://turkey2010.fiba.com/pages/eng...-standing.html
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    “As a captain, I played furiously. I drew a lot of fouls, but I brought everything I had to every practice and to every game. I left everything on the court because I simply wanted the team to win”
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  4. #104
    Raptors Republic Veteran Buddahfan's Avatar
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    Quote maman wrote: View Post
    well done buddahfan, you exposed your deep ignorance of international basket in just 4 lines!
    Do you even know who forms the rosters of Italy and Israel? Do you know that that ranking still reflects Italy silver medal at the olympics of 2004? Do you know that there is no player in the current roster that played in that olympics? Do you know that Israel has 6 players playing for major euroleagues teams and one in the NBA while Italy 2 NBA, no players in major European teams and 1 in the italian second league team? Do you even have any idea how hard is to play an official game in Israel?
    Do you actually care about posting any informed comment or is just your unexplainable obsession with Amir pushing you?
    P.s.: Bargnani scored 26 and single handedly beated Israel.
    I don't believe that either team is in the upcoming FIBA tournament.

    I used the only rankings currently available and provided by FIBA.

    If Israel were in the upcoming tournament then I would agree with you but they are not.

    http://turkey2010.fiba.com/pages/eng...-standing.html
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    “As a captain, I played furiously. I drew a lot of fouls, but I brought everything I had to every practice and to every game. I left everything on the court because I simply wanted the team to win”
    Quote from well known personality who led their high school team to a state championship.

  5. #105
    Raptors Republic Starter pesterm1's Avatar
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    http://www.fibaeurope.com/cid_KNce8jInH7Qj1EsyH5rjn2.gameID_7663-A-11-6.compID_qMRZdYCZI6EoANOrUf9le2.season_2011.roundI D_7524.teamID_307.html#{1069DEBF-F6B0-48E8-9680-5C0DE029CF6B}

    If plays are ran specificly for Bargs next year i think we can expect success. Those stats look sweet.

  6. #106
    Raptors Republic Rookie Fon Riego's Avatar
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    It's not a game to make conclussions...just a summer friendly game that Andrea has played under 100% to came fresh to camp. Besides, to Montenegro (an small, small country) that game was much more important than to Italy...

  7. #107
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    Quote Buddahfan wrote: View Post
    So you are saying that Israel has improved their National team? RFLMAO
    Yes they have and I might add that this is the worst Italian team of the last 20 years at least, but I explained why elsewhere. Using fiba rankings as you did is absolutely pointless, it's not like a season/league ranking.
    Also about the world championship: euro basketball is full of competitive teams, often the gap is almost insignificant and a lot of good teams miss the qualification. Tunisia is playing the worlds since they face less competition than Israel or Italy or any other euro team in qualifiers. Please handle fiba data with more care...

  8. #108
    Raptors Republic Rookie Fon Riego's Avatar
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    Why does Amir Johnson appears one way or another in every single thread there??? It gets boring...

  9. #109
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    Frankthetank: Great point!, about Buddah and Tim W.

    Tim W: You haven't said anything that wasn't untrue??? Are you trying to make us all laugh on here?...Where is the "quote" that BC stated publicly that he thinks Roy is better that Bargs??? Well....We're all still waiting...Yaa exactly, dont hold your breath on that one everybody...

  10. #110
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    Bargnani should just always play like this then atleast no one could say he doesnt try when rebounding...

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lhdGQn3k7Aw

  11. #111
    Raptors Republic Veteran Buddahfan's Avatar
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    Interesting how Bargs supporters have twisted the theme of this thread from one about his lack of defensive ability to another one on how he supposedly will replace Bosh as a big time scorer.

    I guess Bargnani supporters have given up trying to defend his horrible defense
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    “As a captain, I played furiously. I drew a lot of fouls, but I brought everything I had to every practice and to every game. I left everything on the court because I simply wanted the team to win”
    Quote from well known personality who led their high school team to a state championship.

  12. #112
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    Quote RaptorRoo wrote: View Post
    Frankthetank: Great point!, about Buddah and Tim W.

    Tim W: You haven't said anything that wasn't untrue??? Are you trying to make us all laugh on here?...Where is the "quote" that BC stated publicly that he thinks Roy is better that Bargs??? Well....We're all still waiting...Yaa exactly, dont hold your breath on that one everybody...
    I already linked to two articles that talked about the interview where he said that. It shouldn't be that much of a shocker. I don't think there's one legit NBA person who doesn't think that Roy is the better player. Colangelo stated that Roy was not considered the number one pick and that it was felt he simply didn't have the potential that Bargnani did, and that's why they picked Bargnani. Why are you so offended by this fact?

  13. #113
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    Quote tbihis wrote: View Post
    He does sometimes tend to lull in the paint but he's a decent defender. averaged 1.4 blks last year, #17th in the league. he's more of a weakside blocker, meaning he blocks shots of offensive players who got away from their man. Averages 6 rebs last year which is not great but decent. i think extremely poor rebounder is a tag for the likes of boykins or maybe even POB. im not sure how his shooting % goes down when he puts the ball on the floor, when putting the ball on the floor means youre going to penetrate which means a higher chance of getting the ball in the hoop, therefore, high FG%. He may have the same move everytime, but it seems to be effective, he's averaged almost 17pts a game in 14 attempts, again, close to 50%.

    i think most of your assumptions are what they are, assumptions. if you look at games from last year, he mostly got his points off broken plays, meaning the ball got down to bosh, he got double teamed so he passes out to andrea. imagine if plays were actually made for andrea, he'd probably be scoring at least 20 a game.

    the thing with andrea is, he may not be a franchise player, but right now, he is. or at least he is considered to be. same situation with bosh when VC left.

    i think bargs is in the same situation now as back then with granger. granger was 7pts/5rebs then 13/5 his 1st 2 seasons with indiana. his third year he all of a sudden becomes the franchise player, he gets 19/6.
    No, he's not a decent defender. Blocks do not equal good defense, just as steals don't equal good defense. Bargnani has a low IQ on the defensive end. He turns his back to the ball, doesn't react when he should and reacts to late when he does. Even COlangelo admitted at the end of the season that Bargnani needed to work on his team defense.

    As for rebounding, for a 7 foot center or power forward, 6 rebounds in 35 minutes a game is bad. Especially a 7 footer with Bargnani's athleticism and coordination. As for Boykins, a 5'5 player averaging 2.5 rpg over 36 mpg isn't bad. And Patrick O'Bryant is a better rebounder than Bargnani, so I'm not sure your point on that.

    On offense, Bargnani only shoots a high percentage when he drives if he gets all the way to the rim. That would mean a total break down of the defense, so it doesn't happen very often. It's just people remember it because it's spectacular when it does happen. And the problem is that Bargnani can only get by his man when they fall for his pumpfake. And if a second defender comes, Bargnani's shooting percentage drops quite a bit. Bargnani doesn't have the ability to beat a second defender.

    And these aren't assumptions. They are observations from watching him over the last four years, most of which are backed up by statistics. And the reason he gets most of his points off broken plays or kickouts is because he simply can't create his own shots very well. He doesn't move well without the ball, he can only beat his man if he falls for his pumpfake and his post play is passable at best. Plus he is very poor at drawing fouls. None of this bodes well for him being the number one option on offense. He will struggle. This isn't a guess but a read of the facts.

    As for Granger, he made big improvements in scoring every year his first four years. Per 36 minutes, he went from 12 to 14.8 to 19.6 to 25.7. In four years, Bargnani's per 36 mpg total increase was 1.1 ppg. That's 16.6 ppg in his first season to 17.7 ppg this past year. For a guy who his fans have kept saying has made big improvements every year, statistically, that simply isn't true.

    Now, there are a few Raptor fans that seem to believe I hate Bargnani. I don't. In fact I have no personal feelings about Bargnani whatsoever. I do of some others. I can't stand Shaq and think he's an idiot and how Marbury's NBA career ended couldn't have been better for a dick like him. All of my feelings about Bargnani are about what he does on the court. I'm not prejudiced against Europeans, since I like Calderon and Belinelli (as well as others on other teams). My opinion comes from watching the NBA for more than 25 years and from watching the vast majority of Bargnani's games in the NBA. If I'm in charge of a team Bargnani is not on it. You look at the top two big man for every Championship team and just about every single one were above average defenders and rebounders. It's hard enough to win a Championship in the NBA. Why make it even harder for yourself?

  14. #114
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    Because YOU stated that BC said Roy is a better player that Bargs and that is a LIE and I have stated THAT FACT SEVERAL TIMES. I don't care what your opinion is regarding other legit NBA personnel, The fact of the matter is BC NEVER SAID ROY WAS BETTER THAN BARGS, is that sinking in yet? Or do I need to continue to school you on your bullshit. The articles you linked are NOT BC's COMMENTS therefore your point is useless...If your going to make outrageous claims about what BC "supposedly" said about a Raptor (not to mention the leader of our team) then at least have the decency to back up the claim. You may Bullshit your way around in life but ON HERE I will CALL you on it every time so deal with it!

  15. #115
    Raptors Republic Veteran Buddahfan's Avatar
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    Quote RaptorRoo wrote: View Post
    Because YOU stated that BC said Roy is a better player that Bargs and that is a LIE and I have stated THAT FACT SEVERAL TIMES. I don't care what your opinion is regarding other legit NBA personnel, The fact of the matter is BC NEVER SAID ROY WAS BETTER THAN BARGS, is that sinking in yet? Or do I need to continue to school you on your bullshit. The articles you linked are NOT BC's COMMENTS therefore your point is useless...If your going to make outrageous claims about what BC "supposedly" said about a Raptor (not to mention the leader of our team) then at least have the decency to back up the claim. You may Bullshit your way around in life but ON HERE I will CALL you on it every time so deal with it!
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    “As a captain, I played furiously. I drew a lot of fouls, but I brought everything I had to every practice and to every game. I left everything on the court because I simply wanted the team to win”
    Quote from well known personality who led their high school team to a state championship.

  16. #116
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    Quote Buddahfan wrote: View Post
    Interesting how Bargs supporters have twisted the theme of this thread from one about his lack of defensive ability to another one on how he supposedly will replace Bosh as a big time scorer.

    I guess Bargnani supporters have given up trying to defend his horrible defense

    and rebounding
    "I may be wrong ... but I doubt it"

  17. #117
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    Quote charlz wrote: View Post
    and rebounding
    Forgot - My bad
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    “As a captain, I played furiously. I drew a lot of fouls, but I brought everything I had to every practice and to every game. I left everything on the court because I simply wanted the team to win”
    Quote from well known personality who led their high school team to a state championship.

  18. #118
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    Buddahfan: We haven't given up defending Bargs, we're all just tired of trying to have an intelligent discussion with individuals who are shortsighted and narrow-minded...

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    Quote RaptorRoo wrote: View Post
    Because YOU stated that BC said Roy is a better player that Bargs and that is a LIE and I have stated THAT FACT SEVERAL TIMES. I don't care what your opinion is regarding other legit NBA personnel, The fact of the matter is BC NEVER SAID ROY WAS BETTER THAN BARGS, is that sinking in yet? Or do I need to continue to school you on your bullshit. The articles you linked are NOT BC's COMMENTS therefore your point is useless...If your going to make outrageous claims about what BC "supposedly" said about a Raptor (not to mention the leader of our team) then at least have the decency to back up the claim. You may Bullshit your way around in life but ON HERE I will CALL you on it every time so deal with it!
    the man provided 2 sources which clearly showed BC admitted that Roy was the best player in the 2006 draft.... what more do you need ?

  20. #120
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    Quote RaptorRoo wrote: View Post
    Because YOU stated that BC said Roy is a better player that Bargs and that is a LIE and I have stated THAT FACT SEVERAL TIMES. I don't care what your opinion is regarding other legit NBA personnel, The fact of the matter is BC NEVER SAID ROY WAS BETTER THAN BARGS, is that sinking in yet? Or do I need to continue to school you on your bullshit. The articles you linked are NOT BC's COMMENTS therefore your point is useless...If your going to make outrageous claims about what BC "supposedly" said about a Raptor (not to mention the leader of our team) then at least have the decency to back up the claim. You may Bullshit your way around in life but ON HERE I will CALL you on it every time so deal with it!
    Colangelo DID say that Roy was the best player from the 2006 draft. I posted two links that discussed him admitting that and he said it on at least one other occasion, as well. Is this heresy? Is he not allowed to admit the truth? How long have you been a member of the team? Have you always been a dick?

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