Page 7 of 10 FirstFirst ... 5 6 7 8 9 ... LastLast
Results 121 to 140 of 186

Thread: Bargs' Defense Not Improved Over The Summer

  1. #121
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    481
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    i dont understand why you would think that for BC to say Brandon Roy was the best player coming out of the 2006 draft is a knock on BC or Bargnani ?

    A lot of other GM's passed on Roy, and every GM has some draft picks that if they could go back they would change.

    It's part of the game.

    Manu Ginobli was drafted in the 2nd round. It doesnt mean that all the GM's who had picks in the 1st round are bad or incompetent.

    Just like no one is saying that by BC admitting Roy was the best player, that all of a sudden BC is incompetent.

    A REAL person can look back and say yea maybe I would have drafted Roy instead, but it's ok, we are still good, and getting stronger.

    A FOOL defends their mistakes till the grave and pretends they made all of the right moves ALL OF THE TIME.

  2. #122
    Raptors Republic Starter
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    315
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    "you look at the top two big man for every Championship team and just about every single one were above average defenders and rebounders. It's hard enough to win a Championship in the NBA. Why make it even harder for yourself? "

    So your telling me Gasol was considered a good defender when he was traded to LA? NO he wasn't. THe fact that Gasol improved his defense at 27 years old (became a better player at 27-28 then he was at 24-25) is a testament that all you dinks on this board don't understand the development of big europeans in the NBA. Remember bargni's still only 24 years old which is the same age as Sonny Weems who everyone thinks is improving. I can't wait to the season starts because thats the only way to shut up the peanut gallery of guys who never played a lick of basketball.

  3. #123
    Raptors Republic All-Star
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    1,799
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Frankthetank wrote: View Post
    "you look at the top two big man for every Championship team and just about every single one were above average defenders and rebounders. It's hard enough to win a Championship in the NBA. Why make it even harder for yourself? "

    So your telling me Gasol was considered a good defender when he was traded to LA? NO he wasn't. THe fact that Gasol improved his defense at 27 years old (became a better player at 27-28 then he was at 24-25) is a testament that all you dinks on this board don't understand the development of big europeans in the NBA. Remember bargni's still only 24 years old which is the same age as Sonny Weems who everyone thinks is improving. I can't wait to the season starts because thats the only way to shut up the peanut gallery of guys who never played a lick of basketball.
    Finally someone said it, thankyou. +1

  4. #124
    Raptors Republic Veteran Buddahfan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Los Angeles
    Posts
    5,219
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Frankthetank wrote: View Post
    "you look at the top two big man for every Championship team and just about every single one were above average defenders and rebounders. It's hard enough to win a Championship in the NBA. Why make it even harder for yourself? "

    So your telling me Gasol was considered a good defender when he was traded to LA? NO he wasn't. THe fact that Gasol improved his defense at 27 years old (became a better player at 27-28 then he was at 24-25) is a testament that all you dinks on this board don't understand the development of big europeans in the NBA. Remember bargni's still only 24 years old which is the same age as Sonny Weems who everyone thinks is improving. I can't wait to the season starts because thats the only way to shut up the peanut gallery of guys who never played a lick of basketball.
    Gasol's defense improved because he went to the Lakers who taught him how to utilize his body style and athletic abilities to play defense. You are expecting a lot from Carlesimo - Maybe if he can turn Bargnani into a decent defender he can also fix Johnson's foul problems. Johnson is after all younger than Bargnani, has fewer NBA minutes and like Bargnani never played college ball.

    Here is hoping that Carlesimo can work some magic
    Avatar: Riverboat Coffee House 134 Yorkville Ave. billboard of upcoming entertainers - Circa 1960s

    Memories some so sweet, indeed

    Larger Photo of the avatar



    “As a captain, I played furiously. I drew a lot of fouls, but I brought everything I had to every practice and to every game. I left everything on the court because I simply wanted the team to win”
    Quote from well known personality who led their high school team to a state championship.

  5. #125
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    1,613
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Barg's defense is weaker than weak it takes heart in order to play defense, the desire to shut your man down mentality- that Bargnani lacks from my observations. I believe that we all know who Wright and Jack were both complaining about in the media about not be held accountable for their on court play or lack thereof- Bargnani, by Jay/BC.

    Some folks keep on making comparisons to other players but remember that Bargnani was the #1 overall draft pick- Sonny was a second rounder- do the full math not the self serving half. You don't draft projects number 1 overall especially one's that play the same finesse PF position as your Franchise player- Bosh, at the time as it eventually cost TO that same Franchise players 4 years later as f/a for blindly babying Bargnani.

    Trade Barg's ASAP!!!!!!!

  6. #126
    Raptors Republic Superstar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    4,942
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Frankthetank wrote: View Post
    "you look at the top two big man for every Championship team and just about every single one were above average defenders and rebounders. It's hard enough to win a Championship in the NBA. Why make it even harder for yourself? "

    So your telling me Gasol was considered a good defender when he was traded to LA? NO he wasn't. THe fact that Gasol improved his defense at 27 years old (became a better player at 27-28 then he was at 24-25) is a testament that all you dinks on this board don't understand the development of big europeans in the NBA. Remember bargni's still only 24 years old which is the same age as Sonny Weems who everyone thinks is improving. I can't wait to the season starts because thats the only way to shut up the peanut gallery of guys who never played a lick of basketball.
    Apparently you didn't watch much Pau Gasol before he joined the Lakers. He was a half decent defender who's biggest problem was that he simply wasn't strong enough to handle centers, which was the position he played, at the time. He was a pretty good team defender already, however. When he joined the Lakers, he was able to move to PF, where he didn't have to battle the bigger, stronger players and could use his quickness more. The LEAST of Bargnani's problems on defense is guarding bigger, stronger players. In fact, that's his best attribute on defense, guarding big men in the post.

    It's great that you think that Bargnani is going to become a good defender and rebounder, but there's simply no indication he will be. Obviously the longer a player plays in the league, the better he will be, but that doesn't mean he's going to become good at something that he was poor at before. The majority of European players who are good defenders came over as good defender. And the majority that came over not being good defenders never became good defenders.

    Again, you're completely discounting the skill involved in playing defense. If Bargnani can become a good defender, why can't Amir Johnson become a good scorer? There are far more instances of players who couldn't shoot learning how to shoot (Bruce Bowen, Jason Kidd), than poor defenders learning to become good ones.

    As for the insults, I'll spare you them. And I've played basketball and watched it for more than 25 years. I'm pretty sure I know a thing or two about it.

  7. #127
    Raptors Republic Veteran Buddahfan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Los Angeles
    Posts
    5,219
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Frankthetank wrote: View Post
    *This post has been deleted*
    Good for you.

    You may have played the game but that doesn't mean you know basketball.

    The Johnson situation is entirely different from Bargnani's.

    Bargnani was a number #1 pick by frankly a franchise that has not done too well over the last four seasons. So he has had plenty of opportunity to develop his game. It's about a heck of lot more than filling out your body. Yes it helps like it has helped KD become a better all around player. Last season, his third at the age of 21 he raised his rebound rate to 6.9 per 36 minutes. Bargnani by contrast last season his fourth as opposed to KD's third and at the age of 24 instead of KD's 21 still managed only 6.3 rebounds per 36 minutes.

    Lets see what happens to both their respective rebound rates after their fifth season in the league. My guess is that KD will continue to average more rebounds per 36 minutes than Bargnani though I don't expect either to increase their rates much if any at all after their respective fifth seasons.

    Johnson was a number #56 pick by a team that went deep into the playoffs his first three season's in the league. Even in his fourth and last season in Detroit the Pistons made the playoffs. Johnson was indeed lighter when he first came into the league than he is now. No one will argue against that. But it wasn't his lack of weight/muscle that prevented the Pistons from giving him the minutes that Bargnani got in his first four years with the Raptors.

    The Pistons depth up front as well as the fact the Pistons during the Joe Dumars years as GM have never and I mean never developed a solid big man greatly retarded Johnson's growth as a player, not his lack of weight or muscle.

    Even Okur who they drafted never played that well for the Pistons. Larry Brown coached the Pistons to the NBA title in June 2004 while he kept Okur basically pinned to the bench during the playoffs. Okur then signed with Jazz and has excelled under Sloan. However, the Pistons did nothing to develop Okur's game beyond what it was when they drafted him out of Turkey.


    Johnson'r rebounding rate per 36 minutes was actually a lot higher in 07-08 when he was 20 years old, had his first meaningful NBA minutes and was a lot less muscular than he was last season


    Johnson's rebound rate per 36 minutes
    ------------------------------------
    07-08-------11.1
    08-09--------9.2
    09-10--------9.8

    Sorry but your line of "I played the game" doesn't hold water my friend.

    http://www.basketball-reference.com/...johnsam01.html
    Last edited by James Ballswin (Realizar); Thu Aug 19th, 2010 at 09:29 AM.
    Avatar: Riverboat Coffee House 134 Yorkville Ave. billboard of upcoming entertainers - Circa 1960s

    Memories some so sweet, indeed

    Larger Photo of the avatar



    “As a captain, I played furiously. I drew a lot of fouls, but I brought everything I had to every practice and to every game. I left everything on the court because I simply wanted the team to win”
    Quote from well known personality who led their high school team to a state championship.

  8. #128
    Raptors Republic Veteran Buddahfan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Los Angeles
    Posts
    5,219
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Tim W. wrote: View Post
    Apparently you didn't watch much Pau Gasol before he joined the Lakers. He was a half decent defender who's biggest problem was that he simply wasn't strong enough to handle centers, which was the position he played, at the time. He was a pretty good team defender already, however. When he joined the Lakers, he was able to move to PF, where he didn't have to battle the bigger, stronger players and could use his quickness more. The LEAST of Bargnani's problems on defense is guarding bigger, stronger players. In fact, that's his best attribute on defense, guarding big men in the post.

    It's great that you think that Bargnani is going to become a good defender and rebounder, but there's simply no indication he will be. Obviously the longer a player plays in the league, the better he will be, but that doesn't mean he's going to become good at something that he was poor at before. The majority of European players who are good defenders came over as good defender. And the majority that came over not being good defenders never became good defenders.

    Again, you're completely discounting the skill involved in playing defense. If Bargnani can become a good defender, why can't Amir Johnson become a good scorer? There are far more instances of players who couldn't shoot learning how to shoot (Bruce Bowen, Jason Kidd), than poor defenders learning to become good ones.

    As for the insults, I'll spare you them. And I've played basketball and watched it for more than 25 years. I'm pretty sure I know a thing or two about it.


    http://www.myteespot.com/Ka-Pow-Batm...mpaign=froogle
    Avatar: Riverboat Coffee House 134 Yorkville Ave. billboard of upcoming entertainers - Circa 1960s

    Memories some so sweet, indeed

    Larger Photo of the avatar



    “As a captain, I played furiously. I drew a lot of fouls, but I brought everything I had to every practice and to every game. I left everything on the court because I simply wanted the team to win”
    Quote from well known personality who led their high school team to a state championship.

  9. #129
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    481
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Frankthetank wrote: View Post
    *This post has been deleted*
    wow you should try out for the raptors.
    Last edited by James Ballswin (Realizar); Thu Aug 19th, 2010 at 09:30 AM.

  10. #130
    Raptors Republic Superstar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    4,942
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote RaptorRoo wrote: View Post
    *This post has been deleted*
    Well, it's actually "you're", not "your". Also, you seem to be far, far too emotional about this subject, which is probably clouding your judgement. It's certainly clouding your argument. I'm not really sure why you're so upset that Colangelo stated that the best player from the 2006 draft was Brandon Roy. Why does this upset you so much? Do you disagree?

    As for the articles, they state what Colangelo said. I heard it myself. He said that no one could have predicted that Brandon Roy would have been the best player in the draft, that no one had him as the best player, that other teams passed on him and that he's still happy with his selection. I'm obviously not lying, yet you seem to want to cling to your argument.

    If you want to continue to post here, I'd advise you not to take criticisms of players so personally. You launch into personal attacks against the poster, rather than try and debate the argument. If you can't take criticism of players you like, I suggest you stick to websites where criticizing of Raptors is not allowed. It is here.
    Last edited by James Ballswin (Realizar); Thu Aug 19th, 2010 at 09:16 AM.

  11. #131
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    481
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    hmm pau gasol in his ROOKIE year, averaged 8.9 rebounds per game....

    BARGS in his FOURTH year, averaged 6.2 rebounds per game...

    not sure why you are using gasol as a reference to say bargs will improve... SOME players improve SOME DONT... but gasol came into the league ALREADY A GOOD REBOUNDER.

    fyi - not that stats are everything but in gasol's rookie year he averaged 2.1 blocks...

    so wouldnt you agree that he using the progress gasol has made to imply bargs will have similar improvement is completely ridiculous ?

    we can all hope that he improves for the sake of the raptors, but as of today, there is absolutely no evidence that he will be any better.

  12. #132
    Raptors Republic Veteran Buddahfan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Los Angeles
    Posts
    5,219
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Tim W. wrote: View Post
    Well, it's actually "you're", not "your". Also, you seem to be far, far too emotional about this subject, which is probably clouding your judgement. It's certainly clouding your argument. I'm not really sure why you're so upset that Colangelo stated that the best player from the 2006 draft was Brandon Roy. Why does this upset you so much? Do you disagree?

    As for the articles, they state what Colangelo said. I heard it myself. He said that no one could have predicted that Brandon Roy would have been the best player in the draft, that no one had him as the best player, that other teams passed on him and that he's still happy with his selection. I'm obviously not lying, yet you seem to want to cling to your argument.

    If you want to continue to post here, I'd advise you not to take criticisms of players so personally. You launch into personal attacks against the poster, rather than try and debate the argument. If you can't take criticism of players you like, I suggest you stick to websites where criticizing of Raptors is not allowed. It is here.

    +10


    Tim W.
    ---------
    You are on a roll today. No way IMMA B mess'n w/ what ur writ'n 2day.
    Avatar: Riverboat Coffee House 134 Yorkville Ave. billboard of upcoming entertainers - Circa 1960s

    Memories some so sweet, indeed

    Larger Photo of the avatar



    “As a captain, I played furiously. I drew a lot of fouls, but I brought everything I had to every practice and to every game. I left everything on the court because I simply wanted the team to win”
    Quote from well known personality who led their high school team to a state championship.

  13. #133
    Raptors Republic Starter
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    315
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Gasol, BOsh, Nowitzki and kevin garnet were all first options by their 3 rd year. Bargni has never been a first option untill this coming season. You dip shits can say all you like but I will let this years stats back me up. Start living in the future not the past. SIrchilly your oppinion means even less then buddah and timw. You guys say that were emotional for defending ANdrea but it sounds like all three of you guys have an agenda to slander Bargni.

    when you know your going to be right it feels a lot better. The raptors will be as a good or better without BOSH and tuRK. Just like the Blue Jays. All the analysts had the JAYS last in the division and conference. The jays lost their star player and seem to be better. I would love to bet each one of you guys that ANdrea will average over 20 points a game and 8 rebounds a game. $20 each if your man enough.
    Check out my website www.guelphbball.com

  14. #134
    Raptors Republic Rookie RecklessIndifference's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Calgary, AB
    Posts
    134
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Frankthetank wrote: View Post
    Gasol, BOsh, Nowitzki and kevin garnet were all first options by their 3 rd year. Bargni has never been a first option untill this coming season. You dip shits can say all you like but I will let this years stats back me up. Start living in the future not the past. SIrchilly your oppinion means even less then buddah and timw. You guys say that were emotional for defending ANdrea but it sounds like all three of you guys have an agenda to slander Bargni.

    when you know your going to be right it feels a lot better. The raptors will be as a good or better without BOSH and tuRK. Just like the Blue Jays. All the analysts had the JAYS last in the division and conference. The jays lost their star player and seem to be better. I would love to bet each one of you guys that ANdrea will average over 20 points a game and 8 rebounds a game. $20 each if your man enough.
    Check out my website www.guelphbball.com
    Man, your website needs work. Here's the website of the league I play in
    http://www.hoopzbasketball.com

  15. #135
    Raptors Republic Rookie RecklessIndifference's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Calgary, AB
    Posts
    134
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Frankthetank wrote: View Post
    *This post has been deleted*
    Using statistics to point out deficiencies is not 'slander'.

    The only thing close to 'slander' is when you attack the other forum members with insults.
    Last edited by James Ballswin (Realizar); Thu Aug 19th, 2010 at 09:33 AM.

  16. #136
    Raptors Republic Starter
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    315
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    I can make up some stats and throw them on the board and then follow the stats up with slanderous words. I don't see Andrea here to defend himself or BC but you guys insult them. Stats are good to draw conclusions but they're not the end all of basketball. Sorry to tell you but some of the most important players on teams have crappy stats. SO HOW MANY BLOGS IS TO MUCH BEFORE IT BECOMES SLANDEROUS???? So if you guys wrote a blog on a lawyer or even a stock and slandered the lawyer or the stock you do know that you can get sued and lose. I've seen law suites in securites on ONE POST and that person has lost. SO when you start 6-8 blogs in one month?

  17. #137
    Raptors Republic Starter
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    315
    Post Thanks / Like

  18. #138
    Raptors Republic Rookie RecklessIndifference's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Calgary, AB
    Posts
    134
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Frankthetank wrote: View Post
    I can make up some stats and throw them on the board and then follow the stats up with slanderous words. I don't see Andrea here to defend himself or BC but you guys insult them.
    You can make up stats... sure.

    But these are stats that were derived from his playing history. The only person who 'made up' these stats is Andrea.

    And don't talk to me about 'slandering' Andrea, I have always had good things to say about him.Check my post history. I just think his rebounding is really bad.

  19. #139
    Raptors Republic Starter
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    315
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    I agree his rebounding isn't the best. To call him heartless, useless and to trade him aren't stat based. We've looked at this subject 10 ways to sunday and its time to move on. We can reopen the subject when the season starts. Blast me all you like if I'm wrong

  20. #140
    Raptors Republic Superstar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    4,942
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Frankthetank wrote: View Post
    Gasol, BOsh, Nowitzki and kevin garnet were all first options by their 3 rd year. Bargni has never been a first option untill this coming season. You dip shits can say all you like but I will let this years stats back me up. Start living in the future not the past. SIrchilly your oppinion means even less then buddah and timw. You guys say that were emotional for defending ANdrea but it sounds like all three of you guys have an agenda to slander Bargni.

    when you know your going to be right it feels a lot better. The raptors will be as a good or better without BOSH and tuRK. Just like the Blue Jays. All the analysts had the JAYS last in the division and conference. The jays lost their star player and seem to be better. I would love to bet each one of you guys that ANdrea will average over 20 points a game and 8 rebounds a game. $20 each if your man enough.
    Check out my website www.guelphbball.com
    Okay, again with the insults. Why? Because we disagree with you? And how on earth am I slandering Bargnani?

    slan·der   [slan-der]
    –noun
    1. defamation; calumny: rumors full of slander.
    2. a malicious, false, and defamatory statement or report: a slander against his good name.
    3. Law . defamation by oral utterance rather than by writing, pictures, etc.

    I haven't done any of that. I haven't said anything personal about Bargnani, and there is nothing I have said that hasn't been backed up by facts or stats. You seem to think simply criticizing how a player performs on the court is slandering him. It isn't.
    And I never started one of these threads. In fact, I don't believe I've ever started a thread here about Bargnani.

    You want to say that Bargnani will make a great developmental leap this year. Great. We simply pointed out that the evidence works against that premise. If you had said that DeRozan would become an All-Star this year, I would have debated that. I was ecstatic that the Raptors were able to draft Ed Davis, but if anyone said he would one day become a top ten player, I would say you're nuts.

    The problem I have with many Bargnani fans is they often COMPLETELY ignore evidence in order to argue their point, or their argument lacks logic. And then if you point that out, they get offended.

    And no one has ever said that Bargnani will not increase his scoring. I certainly wouldn't be shocked if he ends up averaging 22 ppg- although my guess is it will be around 20 ppg, and I also wouldn't be surprised if it did end up going down. It will be interesting. I certainly don't think his efficiency will remain the same, and I think he'll often struggle to score consistently. But becoming the #1 option doesn't affect defense and rebounding, so why do Bargnani fans keep bringing up the fact that he's going to be the #1 option this year. Great. That means he'll probably end up shooting the ball a lot more. Cause and effect tells me that he will probably score more. Again, however, none of that tells me anything about his defense or rebounding.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •