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Thread: Bargs' Defense Not Improved Over The Summer

  1. #161
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    Quote RaptorRoo wrote: View Post
    Being the focal point of the team will inspire Bargs to work harder this offseason to improve his rebounding skill set.......Why are you prepared to write him off based on 5 GAMES last season? Regardless of Bosh not playing in those games, he was still conditioned as a secondary player in rebounding
    This is pure conjecture. It's an assumption based solely on an opinion. You have not evidence to support your argument that Bargnani will work harder on rebounding. Why didn't he do it before? What was stopping him? It's not as if the Raptors didn't need more rebounding. That's why they got Amir Johnson and Reggie Evans, both of whom are certainly not the focal point of the offence but rebound at a high rate. Why didn't Bargnani rebound before and what makes you think he will now? There's simply no evidence whatsoever to support your argument. It doesn't mean you can't believe that, but it's not an argument you can back up.

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    Quote RaptorRoo wrote: View Post
    Vinnie_Paz: Who has "suggested" that Bargs HAS made significant progress in rebounding? IF you read the posts properly you'll find that some of us BELIEVE he WILL make significant progress in his rebounding THIS season. Being the focal point of the team will inspire Bargs to work harder this offseason to improve his rebounding skill set. Why do you assume his development has peaked after 4 seasons? As I have have stated before, I believe that Bargs is a late bloomer, and there IS plenty of evidence of some Big Men getting better after 4 seasons so why is Bargnani any different??? Or is it just Euro bias???
    Why are you prepared to write him off based on 5 GAMES last season? Regardless of Bosh not playing in those games, he was still conditioned as a secondary player in rebounding.
    look no one is writing him off, or closing the book on him.

    can you tell me where i have said that ?

    why does it seem that anyone who even slightly comments about andrea's lack of defense and rebounding skills, to you it's like they have wished death upon the entire bargnani family and everyone in europe ?

    my RR name is vinie_paz who is an ITALIAN rapper. no one has a bias against players from europe. there is another thread right not where many people are saying how much they would like to have marc gasol join the raptors.

    so dont turn this into a racial war. b/c everyone knows that is simply ridiculous.

    no, we are only saying that he has not made significant progress in terms of his defense, and there is no evidence to prove otherwise.

    im not going to waste any more of my time on this b/c providing facts, links to web pages confirming what BC has said, the VIDEO in the OP, and countless other arguments have failed to convince you that bargs is one of the WORST REBOUNDING BIG MEN IN THE NBA and all of your arguments ARE FLAWED.

    and i am just going to leave you with this.

    Rafael Arajuo's ROOKIE SEASON (2004-2005) he averaged 9.0 rebounds per 36 minutes
    Andrea Bargnani's FOURTH SEASON (2009-2010) he averaged 6.3 rebounds per 36 minutes.

  3. #163
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    Quote RaptorRoo wrote: View Post
    Being the focal point of the team will inspire Bargs to work harder this offseason to improve his rebounding skill set.
    what an utterly idiotic statement to make.

    why wouldnt he just work as hard as he could on improving his rebounding whether he is the focal point or not ?

    so what if bosh was still here bargs WOULDNT WORK ON HIS REBOUNDING AS HARD ??

  4. #164
    Raptors Republic Starter RapthoseLeafs's Avatar
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    Default Now I'm not bored

    Man, you can spot a Bargnani supporter a mile away.
    Yes you can. And a Demar fan. And a Jack fan. And a Sonny fan. Amir as well. I am a Raptor fan, one amongst many. Although the way some players get treated, I don't know if fan is an appropriate description.
    .
    I like the Raps. I'm a Jay fan as well. Argo one, for those who can't handle liking something as close to Canadian as possible. And as far back as I can remember (before yesterday) I have been a Leaf fan - loyalty means having to eat Kraft Dinner for a long time, hoping someday, filet mignon will show up. But since I can't remember what that tastes like - I was there, but at an age that I didn't know better - I'll just have to imagine.
    .
    I have been through the unknown Coach, with Sir Ballard. And experienced the Maple Leaf version of the Gong Show with "Chucky Chucky Chucky .. let's be a horse together. I'll be the front, and you just be yourself".

    You had to be there.
    .
    I will never boo Bosh, nor have I really booed VC. Maybe a little, but like Ex's, get over it. Or get out of my way. Vince put us, as a basketball entity, on the map. And I have always considered him the best Raptor. He is what brought me to basketball. He was flash, and no matter what, I liked when he put it all out there. Trouble was, as I remember, mom had too much say.
    Damn mothers.
    .
    When I say I'm a fan of Bargnani, I mean a fan. If some think that's deranged, that I'm deranged. I'm also a PC supporter - but of course, that doesn't mean I support hillbilly Reform ideas.
    .
    again, not trying to be rude, but if you can help me understand how making a player the focal point of the team would improve their defense ?
    vinnie_paz,
    You wondered why I used your above quote. Only a small part of my post was really directed at that. And for the part that was, this pretty much sums it up: when a player is given responsibility to lead a team with his play, players do step up. Whether Bargnani will, is something to be determined.
    .
    are you suggesting that it is possible for the raps to acquire a noah TYPE for some TPE and evans ?
    My favourite topic - The CBA.
    An accountant's paradise, where he/she can escape the whole mundane existence of accounting, and put together a package of salaries that has true sports fans going .... wtf. One thing I have learned, is that the TPE is on its' own when it comes to transactions. It can also be split into many unequal parts. But at no time can it be combined with a player. And as such, Evans can't be included with a 5 million dollar TPE to get 10 million back - a Noah type getting real time dollars. But Evans & Marcus & Wright (I believe), can be traded for 13 million - or thereabouts. As I know it, there is a qualifying option with Wright.
    .
    do you understand ? if bargs made progress, and had the capability to lead a team, those 5 games would have been the time. and to not even have ONE game where he even hinted at double digit rebounds is the point.
    vinnie_paz,
    I'm simply saying - as Stats go, that's not enough to make a judgment. It's no different then this post: Bargs' Defense Not Improved Over The Summer ... based on his game against Pekovic. That story went from Pekovic vs Italy, to Pekovic vs Bargnani. Reinforces my belief that it's not the Bargnani homers that are fanatical, but more so the Haters.
    Anyways, I've taken enough Stat courses to know, 5 games out of 82 would not constitute a proper sample size. 50 games (out of 820, if you want to show its' not about percentages) would be more the amount that gets my attention.
    .
    Which brings me to how I see this year for Bargnani. If some people expect him to start off scoring high above last year's numbers (because he'll be the man), they may be disappointed. Post Bosh, we have very few ammo guys after Andrea. Bosh & Bargnani may have sucked at defense, but offensively, we had a very potent duo (8th - and that counts Reggie). Duo aside, our Front Court had not much more - just the makings of potential (Amir). Now Bargs will experience double teams, and more concentrated defense. The upside is, Demar, Weems & Amir should benefit greatly from that. In the end, if Bargs numbers fall, would that be a bad thing.
    .
    I like what's happening with the Raps. I'll miss Bosh. I hope he doesn't get booed too much. Personally, I think this was a good move for both parties. We have draft picks on the team, and possibly 2 more coming next. Just what most have asked for. Should even one sprout from this year, and more next, it will be worth the change.
    .
    In the end, Toronto is a classy city. And it needs to show those m^@therf*@king egos out there - that despite the occasional anger management classes, we really are just intense fans.
    .

  5. #165
    Raptors Republic Starter RapthoseLeafs's Avatar
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    Default There it is ...

    Quote vinnie_paz wrote: View Post
    and i am just going to leave you with this.

    Rafael Arajuo's ROOKIE SEASON (2004-2005) he averaged 9.0 rebounds per 36 minutes
    Andrea Bargnani's FOURTH SEASON (2009-2010) he averaged 6.3 rebounds per 36 minutes.
    .
    Finally ... a good idea comes out of all these debates. Let's sign Raf back.
    .

  6. #166
    Raptors Republic Rookie RaptorRoo's Avatar
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    Tim W: IT'S OBVIOUS that having a discussion with you is similar to talking to a brick wall. You regurgitate the same obvious information then act like your doing us all a favour. NO ONE on here is disputing the fact that Bargs rebounding needs to improve but thanks for wasting our time on the site regardless. THE SYSTEM that was utilized last season was obviously based on Bosh getting the abundance of opportunities to drive in the lane therefore creating fouls. SO IN FACT, it does have everything to do with Bargs opportunity to do the same on a consistent basis.
    As for your underwhelming "evidence" regarding BC's "statement", it only helps me make my point once again. "UNRELATED discussions from a number of people who heard the interview"??? So second and third hand interpretations of BC's comments constitutes as "evidence" that BC stated WORD FOR WORD that Roy is a better player than Bargs as YOU have claimed he has stated. You obviously live in a fantasy world if you think that this constitutes real evidence because in the REAL WORLD hearsay is a matter of OPINION NOT FACT. Do you finally understand?

    When I said Bargs is the focal point of the team now, I obviously wasn't just referring to the offensive side of the ball based on my overall statement. So read my posts thoroughly before you respond and you might make more sense.

    You're shortsighted views about this upcoming season for Bargs are the height of illogical. You base your opinion on narrow minded thinking since you actually believe he doesn't have the abilities to make significant improvements even though his opportunity to do so is much greater this season. You said it yourself, "I only judge how a player WILL do with what I've SEEN" and that is supposed to be logical with all the changes in this team, philosophy and Bargs significantly new role for this upcoming season.

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    Vinnie_Paz: IF you don't understand what my statement meant because you lack the intelligence level then there's nothing I can do to help that. Have you ever been counted on in your life to be a leader? Probably not, so I'll speak from my experiences... When great responsibility is given great men rise usually rise to the top. Now, I don't think for one second that Bargs will turn into an all-star this season. However, I do believe that he will make a significant improvement, and a big part of that is based on his training this offseason specifically for his increased responsibilities and opportunities this upcoming season.

    What does Bargs being one of the worst rebounding big men in the league have to do with our discussion about next year? Your skill in bringing up irrelevant info. is a special talent like the stat comparing probably the biggest bust in Raps history to Bargs. What ridiculous point are you trying to make now? Who cares? It wont make any sense anyway.

    The only thing flawed are your ridiculous statements and usless stats but IF you want to live in the PAST then do so, as the rest of us will gladly move forward to better times with a significantly better Bargnani.

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    Quote RaptorRoo wrote: View Post
    Tim W: IT'S OBVIOUS that having a discussion with you is similar to talking to a brick wall. You regurgitate the same obvious information then act like your doing us all a favour. NO ONE on here is disputing the fact that Bargs rebounding needs to improve but thanks for wasting our time on the site regardless. THE SYSTEM that was utilized last season was obviously based on Bosh getting the abundance of opportunities to drive in the lane therefore creating fouls. SO IN FACT, it does have everything to do with Bargs opportunity to do the same on a consistent basis.
    As for your underwhelming "evidence" regarding BC's "statement", it only helps me make my point once again. "UNRELATED discussions from a number of people who heard the interview"??? So second and third hand interpretations of BC's comments constitutes as "evidence" that BC stated WORD FOR WORD that Roy is a better player than Bargs as YOU have claimed he has stated. You obviously live in a fantasy world if you think that this constitutes real evidence because in the REAL WORLD hearsay is a matter of OPINION NOT FACT. Do you finally understand?

    When I said Bargs is the focal point of the team now, I obviously wasn't just referring to the offensive side of the ball based on my overall statement. So read my posts thoroughly before you respond and you might make more sense.

    You're shortsighted views about this upcoming season for Bargs are the height of illogical. You base your opinion on narrow minded thinking since you actually believe he doesn't have the abilities to make significant improvements even though his opportunity to do so is much greater this season. You said it yourself, "I only judge how a player WILL do with what I've SEEN" and that is supposed to be logical with all the changes in this team, philosophy and Bargs significantly new role for this upcoming season.
    Again, you insult. I thought we had progressed from that. Apparently not. And the same could be said about you. At least I back up my argument instead of backing bold predictions without evidence to support it.

    As for your argument about Bosh getting to the line more because he had more opportunities, you obviously didn't read the post I linked to. In Bosh's rookie season he got to the line 40.4 times for every 100 times he shot the ball. A free throw to field goal attempt ratio of 40.4%. That is very good and was an excellent indication he had the ability to become a very good scorer. This was despite not being the 4th option on the team, behind Carter, Rose and Marshall. This past season his ratio was 50.9%. This past season, Bargnani's ft/fga ration was 20.4%. Very low, especially for a big man and for a player whose best attribute is his offense. COntrast that with DeMar DeRozan, who certainly was not featured in the Raptor's offense. His ratio was 38%.

    I've heard the argument that Bargnani doesn't get to the line as much because he's a three point shooter. Well, Dirk Nowitzki's ratio in his first full season (he only played 47 games in his first) was 31.1%. Pretty good, but obviously not as good as Bosh's. That ratio has risen to 39.2% this season.

    See, the thing about this ratio is that it changes very little whether a player is involved in the offense or not. It is an indicator of how aggressive a player is on offense. It's a good bet that Bosh, despite being the third option in Miami, will get to the line at a similar rate as in Toronto. And it's a good bet that DeRozan will end up with a ratio of between 40-50% over the next five to ten years. No matter where he is featured in the offense.

    As for the interview. I'm tired of arguing this point, but I linked to two websites that were unrelated TO ONE ANOTHER talking about the interview. Where on earth am I going to come up with the actual interview that happened during a summer league game? I simply don't understand why you seem to be so offended by Colangelo saying this that you have to deny it. Why are you so SURE he DIDN'T say this? And you've never answered my question about whether you think it's true or not. Do you think that Roy was the best player from the 2006 draft?

    Okay, Bargnani is going to be the focal point of the team. Great. How does that affect how he plays on defense and rebounding? WIll he play harder because of this? SO would he not play harder if he wasn't?

    I never said Bargnani doesn't have the ability to make significant improvements. I just stated there is absolutely no evidence to support this theory. EVERY player in the league could end up making a significant improvement, but that doesn't mean it's going to happen. Why is Bargnani over DeRozan, or Amir Johnson, or Julian Wright?

    As for judging only what you've seen to be illogical, am I supposed to judge on what I haven't seen? GOing on what you've seen of a player so far is at least concrete. DeRozan could end up scoring 25 ppg and becoming the focal point of the team. There's just as much evidence to support that theory. What exactly are YOU going on? If it's not what you've seen of Bargnani so far, then what is it?

    And why are you so offended by someone who disagrees with you?
    Last edited by Tim W.; Thu Aug 19th, 2010 at 02:22 AM.

  9. #169
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    Quote RaptorRoo wrote: View Post
    Vinnie_Paz: IF you don't understand what my statement meant because you lack the intelligence level then there's nothing I can do to help that. Have you ever been counted on in your life to be a leader? Probably not, so I'll speak from my experiences... When great responsibility is given great men rise usually rise to the top. Now, I don't think for one second that Bargs will turn into an all-star this season. However, I do believe that he will make a significant improvement, and a big part of that is based on his training this offseason specifically for his increased responsibilities and opportunities this upcoming season.

    What does Bargs being one of the worst rebounding big men in the league have to do with our discussion about next year? Your skill in bringing up irrelevant info. is a special talent like the stat comparing probably the biggest bust in Raps history to Bargs. What ridiculous point are you trying to make now? Who cares? It wont make any sense anyway.

    The only thing flawed are your ridiculous statements and usless stats but IF you want to live in the PAST then do so, as the rest of us will gladly move forward to better times with a significantly better Bargnani.
    Again you assume that simply because there is opportunity that Bargnani will rise to it. What has lead you to believe that he will? Something must have. There have been countless players who have been given the opportunity and failed.

    You keep trying to shoot down our argument (often through insults), but never actually come up with concrete evidence for your argument. You just keep saying that he's skilled, or smart or will work hard. Those are all your opinions, but you're not telling us what you are basing these opinions on. We have given detailed stats and examples of what has formed our opinion. Saying other players have done it is not evidence because other players have also NOT done it. In fact the vast majority have not. WHy is Bargnani in the minority?

    I just think what we are all looking for is SOMETHING that gives us an indication of why you so firmly believe that Bargnani will make such significant improvements this year, other than your own opinion.

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    Quote RaptorRoo wrote: View Post
    Vinnie_Paz: IF you don't understand what my statement meant because you lack the intelligence level then there's nothing I can do to help that. Have you ever been counted on in your life to be a leader? Probably not, so I'll speak from my experiences... When great responsibility is given great men rise usually rise to the top. Now, I don't think for one second that Bargs will turn into an all-star this season. However, I do believe that he will make a significant improvement, and a big part of that is based on his training this offseason specifically for his increased responsibilities and opportunities this upcoming season.

    What does Bargs being one of the worst rebounding big men in the league have to do with our discussion about next year? Your skill in bringing up irrelevant info. is a special talent like the stat comparing probably the biggest bust in Raps history to Bargs. What ridiculous point are you trying to make now? Who cares? It wont make any sense anyway.

    The only thing flawed are your ridiculous statements and usless stats but IF you want to live in the PAST then do so, as the rest of us will gladly move forward to better times with a significantly better Bargnani.
    again in your last 2 posts, nothing of value, except insults towards people who disagree with you...and more predictions which no one at this point can possibly know will come true or not.

    i understand what you're saying, I am just asking why you believe that and isnt it possible that your prediction will not come true.

    making statements like "IF you don't understand what my statement meant because you lack the intelligence level then there's nothing I can do to help that" is unfortuanate.

    you make a statement about when great responsibility is given to great men they usually rise to the top. (to the top??)

    yes but what does this have to do with bargnani ? he isnt great... and not ALL MEN some men rise and achieve greatness. (again not all) amir johnson might START for the raps, thus you can say he will be given great responsibility. so will he RISE also ? if not why ? what if amir gets hurt, and david anderson is put into the starting 5? what about reggie ?

    you asked "
    What does Bargs being one of the worst rebounding big men in the league have to do with our discussion about next year?"

    did you read the thread title ?

    the reason i brought up arajuo was just to show you that if bargs REALLY HAS MADE PROGRESS LIKE YOU KEEP SAYING, then that's really sad b/c haffa was better in his rookie year than barg's is now in terms of defense and rebounding.

    that was the relevence

    you said barg's rebounding numbers will go up. and his defense will get better based on the training he is doing this summer. well that is very sad b/c even against NON-NBA players his defense looked suspect.

    now just to clarify, when bosh broke his face last season, and the raps were fighting for a playoff spot... was BARGS NOT GIVEN A GREAT RESPONSIBILITY, and if he is SO GREAT, then why did he NOT RISE, even once like you are so sure he will in the future.

    this is historical fact. what you provide is insults and predictions.

    unless you are implying that what bargnani couldnt do in april of 2010, he has somehow magically learned due to him now being the focal point and his training this summer on recognizing a ball that is not going to go in, then jumping and trying to get it.

    oh i forgot, first he probably learned this summer, that to get a rebound maybe once in a while you should stand in the paint, and when the opposing team shoots, you TURN AROUND.

    also there is no possible way that you know what he is working on this summer. i dont think the italian team has practice and bargs is just in the corner somewhere not learning the plays but rebounding by himself.
    Last edited by vinnie_paz; Thu Aug 19th, 2010 at 02:39 AM.

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    Quote RaptorRoo wrote: View Post
    Tim W: What evidence do YOU have that Bargnani wont improve? In fact, you've already admitted to seeing STATS (and you included them in one of your posts), that have displayed his progression each season (with the exception of the odd category). This progression may not be astronomical but IT IS PROGRESSION. NOW that Bargs is the focal point of the team his role will OBVIOUSLY change meaning more focus also on D and better Rebounding. Why? Because HE is talented and smart enough to understand this fact and he has continued to work hard this offseason with that in mind.
    i know you're going to ask where did you say bargs will improve on defense and rebounding, well here it is.

    Post #161

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    Quote RaptorRoo wrote: View Post
    Vinnie_Paz: Who has "suggested" that Bargs HAS made significant progress in rebounding? IF you read the posts properly you'll find that some of us BELIEVE he WILL make significant progress in his rebounding THIS season. Being the focal point of the team will inspire Bargs to work harder this offseason to improve his rebounding skill set. Why do you assume his development has peaked after 4 seasons? As I have have stated before, I believe that Bargs is a late bloomer, and there IS plenty of evidence of some Big Men getting better after 4 seasons so why is Bargnani any different??? Or is it just Euro bias???
    Why are you prepared to write him off based on 5 GAMES last season? Regardless of Bosh not playing in those games, he was still conditioned as a secondary player in rebounding.
    this is your post...it's post #171... where you ask "Who has "suggested" that Bargs HAS made significant progress in rebounding? IF you read the posts properly you'll find that some of us BELIEVE he WILL make significant progress in his rebounding THIS season. Being the focal point of the team will inspire Bargs to work harder this offseason to improve his rebounding skill set. "

    WHo??

    ummm YYOUU !

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    Quote RaptorRoo wrote: View Post
    Regardless of Bosh not playing in those games, he was still conditioned as a secondary player in rebounding.
    Tim, this is a post from Raptoroo. post #171. i think this says it all.

    raptoroo believes that even though Bargnani played 35+ minutes at CENTER, "he was still conditioned as a secondary player in rebounding."

    the center was a "secondary player" in rebounding. i didnt know teams told their players that hey you can only go after the rebound if the "primary" rebounder is not there.

    you got to be kidding me raptoroo !

    I think anyone who wants to have a serious discussion with raptoroo is in for a huge disappointment.

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    Raptors Republic Veteran Buddahfan's Avatar
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    Off the Court / Still lacking the fundamentals
    Israel isn't the only country with an NBA star, so if we want to win, we are going to have to play a lot harder.
    By Eyal Gil

    Tuesday's contest was the third straight game showing a deterioration in the points column, which surprisingly emphasizes the importance of defense - or rather, the lack of it.

    We have no one to fight like mad for every ball, somebody who will scratch, hit and strangle to get to it. No one is ready to sacrifice himself. There's no one to commit a foul.

    And yet rather than play the one person who comes close to this description, Uri Kokia, coach Arik Shivek opted on Tuesday to keep him on the bench,

    even though Bargnani was totally outplaying David Bluthenthal and Lior Eliyahu. Once Kokia entered the game, the scary 2.13m center stopped scoring, but it was too late.
    http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition...ntals-1.308885
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    “As a captain, I played furiously. I drew a lot of fouls, but I brought everything I had to every practice and to every game. I left everything on the court because I simply wanted the team to win”
    Quote from well known personality who led their high school team to a state championship.

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    Please someone delete this thread. I can't stand it. What is this crap? I'm sorry but firstly we are all Raptor fans, why are we doing this? Secondly RaptorRoo, please do everyone a favor and stop all of this or just stop using this site. You are causing no good. All your points are crap, but that's not the problem, people can have their own opinions. But you are harassing other members.

    This thread was not started to commence a battle between us Raptor fans.

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    Quote JoePanini wrote: View Post
    Please someone delete this thread. I can't stand it. What is this crap? I'm sorry but firstly we are all Raptor fans, why are we doing this? Secondly RaptorRoo, please do everyone a favor and stop all of this or just stop using this site. You are causing no good. All your points are crap, but that's not the problem, people can have their own opinions. But you are harassing other members.

    This thread was not started to commence a battle between us Raptor fans.
    We are all still raptors' fans even though we might have discrepancies in opinions. We all want Bargnani to "step up", that way our team wouldn't suck. The debate is whether these hopes are legitimate (backed up by stats) and probable (based on projection).

    Take this analogy (or don't, it might be a terrible one). You and your friend are at the horse track, somehow a horse with one prosthetic leg made it on to the card and was pegged as a favourite, even though past races has shown that to be not true. Your buddy wants to bet his life savings on that horse, he claims,

    "Joe, you don't understand my logic because you lack intelligence, with great power comes great responsibilities. Speaking from experience, that prosthetic horse has a jet pack up his ass"

    Even after his obscene comments, being his friend, are you not still going to point out that the horse he's about to blow his life savings on has three legs and haven't won all day?

    The problem with this debate, and the one in the fake analogy, is one side offers legitimate points, and the other side, slander.
    Last edited by Krix; Thu Aug 19th, 2010 at 12:14 PM.

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    Raptors Republic Rookie RecklessIndifference's Avatar
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    This thread is bbboooorrriiinnnggg..... Let's just let it die, and save the 600 word essays for school

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    You do realize that Nikola Pekovic is one of the best players in Europe? Would have been a top 10 pick in 2008, but due to a VERY sticky contract in Europe he went in the second round.

    Seeing Bargnani at least being aware of what's going on around him as Pekovic attacks the rim is good enough for me. Pekovic assaults average D. You'll see this year; the Wolves just got'im.

  19. #179
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    Quote Krix wrote: View Post
    We are all still raptors' fans even though we might have discrepancies in opinions. We all want Bargnani to "step up", that way our team wouldn't suck. The debate is whether these hopes are legitimate (backed up by stats) and probable (based on projection).
    Some fans want him to be traded.

    The reality is the only reasons more Raptors fans are not clamouring for him to be traded are

    1. They don't believe that BC will ever trade him
    2. They don't believe that the Raptors can win without his scoring.

    Of course the majority for posters on RaptorsRepublic don't believe that the Raptors can win in 10-11 even with his scoring.

    I think he will be on a very short leash this season especially if Davis steps up and he and Johnson can become effective together on the court.

    Does that mean that BC will try and move Bargnani before the trade deadline next February? I don't think so. However, I do believe that:

    1. Bargnani's minutes could be reduced to under 30 mpg if Davis and Johnson can perform effectively together for extended minutes per game.

    2. If a one sided offer for Bargnani came along like the one for Calderon that Charlotte later backed out of, that Bargnani could very be history by the trade deadline in February especially if Davis and Johnson can pair effectively.

    It will be very interesting to compare Johnson's foul rate in 10-11 when he is on the court with Bargnani vs that when he is on the court with Davis. My guess is that Johnson's foul rate will be lower when he is on the court with Davis. I think that reasons are pretty obvious.
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    “As a captain, I played furiously. I drew a lot of fouls, but I brought everything I had to every practice and to every game. I left everything on the court because I simply wanted the team to win”
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  20. #180
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    Quote Introcollapse wrote: View Post
    You do realize that Nikola Pekovic is one of the best players in Europe? Would have been a top 10 pick in 2008, but due to a VERY sticky contract in Europe he went in the second round.

    Seeing Bargnani at least being aware of what's going on around him as Pekovic attacks the rim is good enough for me. Pekovic assaults average D. You'll see this year; the Wolves just got'im.
    I think to you need to recheck your thinking at the door.

    Raptors fans for the most part feel Bargnani has become a fairly decent one on one defender. That he can guard slower less athletic players, even some of the more talented ones in the NBA. So it is no surprise that he can guard a less than average athletic rookie

    Bargnani man lovers need to wake up to the reality of Bargnani's biggest failing.

    His horrible team defense.


    Will Carlesimo be able to devise a team defensive scheme to compensate for this?

    Ans: I hope that Davis and Johnson can be effective together for extended periods on the court.
    Avatar: Riverboat Coffee House 134 Yorkville Ave. billboard of upcoming entertainers - Circa 1960s

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    “As a captain, I played furiously. I drew a lot of fouls, but I brought everything I had to every practice and to every game. I left everything on the court because I simply wanted the team to win”
    Quote from well known personality who led their high school team to a state championship.

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