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Thread: Does This Make It Harder To Trade Calderon?

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    Raptors Republic Veteran LBF's Avatar
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    Default Does This Make It Harder To Trade Calderon?

    Calderon also ranks last among 65 players who defended the ballhandler on at least 150 possessions.
    about 15 hours ago via web
    JCalderon's D is indeed as bad as advertised. In 9th %ile of NBA players in overall D, ranks last among 166 players w/ min 600 D possessions
    about 15 hours ago via web

    http://twitter.com/bqrmagic

    the word has spread that Calderon is an awful defender, anyone who didn't believe it before is going to have a hard time arguing with these stats.

    so, does this make it harder to sell calderon to other teams?
    If Your Uncle Jack Helped You Off An Elephant, Would You Help Your Uncle Jack Off An Elephant?

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    Where did these stats come from? It would be nice to see where Jack ranked, because I don't believe he was too far ahead of Calderon. People have to remember that the Raptors AS A TEAM were the worst in the NBA at defense. Is that all Calderon's fault? Hardly.

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    Raptors Republic Veteran LBF's Avatar
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    argue all you want, but, no one is worse than Calderon. so, put that in your pipe and smoke it.

    you cannot argue calderon is the WORST defender. so stop.
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    Raptors Republic Rookie RecklessIndifference's Avatar
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    Quote LBF wrote: View Post
    http://twitter.com/bqrmagic

    the word has spread that Calderon is an awful defender, anyone who didn't believe it before is going to have a hard time arguing with these stats.

    so, does this make it harder to sell calderon to other teams?
    can u give a real link to the article?

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    Care to read my post again? I simple asked where the stats came from so that I could also see where Jack ranks, since he was playing with the same players as Jose. No where did I argue that Calderon was or was not the worst defender at the PG position. I'd appreciate it if you read my posts before you reply to me. Kthxbai.

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    Raptors Republic Veteran LBF's Avatar
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    it doesn't matter where jack ranked. cause the question was does this hurt our chances of trading calderon.

    adn i don't know if there is an article on it, all i found was this.

    google it if you want.
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    It absolutely matters where Jack and other PGs ranked so that we can see where Jose was relative to his peers. If Jose was worse than Player X by 0.1% instead of 10%, it makes quite the difference. Knowing where PGs ranked on this "defending the ballhandler" stat will allow us to make a decision on whether or not this makes Calderon harder to trade.

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    Last 2 tweets contain data from Synergy Sports Technology. Stats ranked by Points Per Possession.
    about 15 hours ago via web
    http://twitter.com/bqrmagic
    If Your Uncle Jack Helped You Off An Elephant, Would You Help Your Uncle Jack Off An Elephant?

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    Raptors Republic Veteran LBF's Avatar
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    http://www.synergysportstech.com/

    figure it out yourself. is what ypu are going to have to do to know that.
    If Your Uncle Jack Helped You Off An Elephant, Would You Help Your Uncle Jack Off An Elephant?

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    According to BasketballReference.com rating system

    Jack had a defensive rating of 115
    Calderon's was 116

    Not much of a difference

    http://www.basketball-reference.com/.../jackja01.html

    According to BasketballReference.com's rating system

    Here are the defensive ratings for all of the Raptors players who had a negative rating on defense

    Jack--------1.28
    Calderon----2.83
    DeRozan----3.62
    Turk--------4.56
    Bargnani----9.10

    http://basketballvalue.com/teamplaye...=DESC&team=TOR
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    Quote LBF wrote: View Post
    it doesn't matter where jack ranked. cause the question was does this hurt our chances of trading calderon.

    adn i don't know if there is an article on it, all i found was this.

    google it if you want.
    I googled it and found this discussion.

    http://forums.realgm.com/boards/view...=32&p=24743176

    which is interesting b/c it basically points out that Calderon's impact on defense isn't that bad. Which tells me Jack's defense isn't much better when he is on the court. It also states Amir's impact is huge.

    So either our defensive system is really bad.... or Jack and Calderon are both bad defeneders.

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    Quote RecklessIndifference wrote: View Post
    I googled it and found this discussion.

    http://forums.realgm.com/boards/view...=32&p=24743176

    which is interesting b/c it basically points out that Calderon's impact on defense isn't that bad. Which tells me Jack's defense isn't much better when he is on the court. It also states Amir's impact is huge.

    So either our defensive system is really bad.... or Jack and Calderon are both bad defeneders.
    Amir's numbers on defense have been pretty consistent over the last three seasons or since he started to play in the NBA. I am not counting the 11 games total that he played in his first two years under contract to the Pistons.

    Like I have posted elsewhere.

    Amir eats advanced metrics both on the offense and on the defense.

    Of course some of us believes that those advanced metrics more accurately represent what a player contributes to a team's success or failure than do the simple box score numbers. On the other hand there is a very large group of NBA fans who believe that advanced metrics are all gibberish and nothing more than bean counters wet dream.

    The truth like with all all extreme position arguments probably lies somewhere between the two opposing points of view.
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    i don't think those two statements make it harder to trade calderon. without knowledge of their method their conclusions cannot be verified and therefore are not legitimate. However, in general calderon is see as being a poor to terrible defender on the worst defensive team in the league. i don't think this is a secret to anyone. if there are interested parties in calderon, they know what they are getting.
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    Quote Buddahfan wrote: View Post
    Amir's numbers on defense have been pretty consistent over the last three seasons or since he started to play in the NBA. I am not counting the 11 games total that he played in his first two years under contract to the Pistons.

    Like I have posted elsewhere.

    Amir eats advanced metrics both on the offense and on the defense.

    Of course some of us believes that those advanced metrics more accurately represent what a player contributes to a team's success or failure than do the simple box score numbers. On the other hand there is a very large group of NBA fans who believe that advanced metrics are all gibberish and nothing more than bean counters wet dream.

    The truth like with all all extreme position arguments probably lies somewhere between the two opposing points of view.
    That sounds about right. I don't think there is any way you could completely discard these stats and numbers. Is Amir the most efficient player in the NBA? Probably not, but I think this really points out the fact that his career 'box score' numbers aren't telling the whole story either.

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    Quote RecklessIndifference wrote: View Post
    That sounds about right. I don't think there is any way you could completely discard these stats and numbers. Is Amir the most efficient player in the NBA? Probably not, but I think this really points out the fact that his career 'box score' numbers aren't telling the whole story either.
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    I don't know if calderon has the worst D in the league but if he does I wouldn't be surprised. both jack and calderon let players WALK by them on a regular basis. I think everyone knows he D is bad its all about whether or not his weakness can be hidden, he probably hasn't been traded because most teams don't think they can hide his lack of D enough to justify acquiring him

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    Just my two cents on the issue.

    I'm not arguing one way or the other, but I think it's important to underscore the team defense concept.

    Say, for example, the Raps were fielding a team of Calderon, Derozan, Turk, Bosh and Bargs. Ie, their starting 5 from last year.

    If there were better defenders at the 3, 4 and 5, particularly at the 3 and 5, PG's would be far less likely to attempt to drive into the paint from the top or from the wing. That the Raps had bad help defenders at the forward and centre likely made it that much more appealing for the opposing team to have at them. I'm not saying this makes Calderon's defense better. What I am saying is that the success rate of opposing PG's is likely hugely inflated due to the fact that there was no one in the paint or SF who could adequately compensate for the PG penetration.

    The way the league is dominated by fast PG's right now, and as a rule of thumb as far as basketball goes, the defender is typically always at a disadvantage, particularly at the 1.

    It goes without saying that if Calderon was playing with Okafor at the 5 and Artest at the 3 that Calderon's opposite number would have a far worse line. Not only would the opposing PG score less, they would likely attempt to drive and score less as well.

    To sum, yes Calderon has defensive issues. But the lack of overall D on the part of the Raps only served to compel opposing teams to attack more from the point into the paint far more than they would have had the Raps interior D been better. Better defense in the paint makes better defense at the wing, and vice-versa. One weak link exposes and exacerbates the other.

    It is unfair to fully blame one player the way Calderon is when obviously the whole team was suffering from the no-D affliction.

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    Every organization in the league has a scouting team. I'm sure their research dwarfs what the media can produce. I keep reading that there are people who value Jose Calderon.

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