vinnie_paz wrote:
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Does Anybody Else Find This Type Of Attitude In A Fan Tasteless?
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Lark Benson wrote: View Post100% agree with Carefoot. Whether you like it or not, success in the NBA today requires at least one superstar on your team, preferably 2-3 (and yes the 2004 Pistons were an exception, but that's a freak accident that hasn't been duplicated in long, long time). Now consider how the Raptors are going to acquire a superstar. Free agency? Doubtful. Trade? Unlikely, and you typically have to give away your best assets to complete the trade, leaving the cupboard bare and the clock ticking before the superstar bolts at the end of their likely-to-be-expiring-soon contract. That leaves the draft.
As for this idea of a losing culture, it's bullshit. More specifically, it's a fairy tale invented by sports writers with nothing else to write about. Were we talking about Cleveland's losing culture once they drafted LeBron? How about Orlando after Dwight Howard? Miami after Wade? What about LA during the years where it was Kobe and not much else? You heard anyone mentioning Chicago's losing culture once they got Rose and Noah? Once a team acquires talent and begins to win games, it's past is no longer an issue unless management continues too make it one (see: Clippers).
In fact I'd go so far as to say that Derozan would be FAR more likely to bolt at the end of his contract if the Raps can't add more young talent and be in a position to start making some 2nd and 3rd round playoff noise. How many NBA players do you think want to sit on a team that's a perennial bubble playoff team with no hope of competing for a championship? I'd bet not many. It's a lot easier to endure the darkness if there's a light at the end of the tunnel.
2. It seems that you are defining "success" as at least getting to the NBA Finals. The Pistons got to the EC Finals six? straight seasons without a superstar. Many would consider that a great success and achievement.
3. At this point I would dare say that over 75% of the Raptors fans would consider 10-11 a success if the Raptors are in the playoffs come next April. You don't need a superstar on your team to make the playoffs.
After the Raptors make the playoffs two seasons in a row then maybe we should revisit that roster and see if there is a player on it at that at time who is considered a superstar or potential superstar that could lead the Raptors to the NBA Finals.
Lets crawl before we walk or before we run.Avatar: Riverboat Coffee House 134 Yorkville Ave. billboard of upcoming entertainers - Circa 1960s
Memories some so sweet, indeed
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“As a captain, I played furiously. I drew a lot of fouls, but I brought everything I had to every practice and to every game. I left everything on the court because I simply wanted the team to win”
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i worked for my dad at one point.... it f'in SUCKED BALLS... you cant slack off when your boss is your dad
if you do slack off, even for a second... everyone sees you as a lecherous coat tail rider..
people are narrow minded like that... its tough having to live up to being the boss's kid... there's always going to be some douche who didnt actually pay attention to your work and only to the fact that your boss is your dad, that is going to want to tear you down without warrant
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Any poster here who says we should lose should be banned. This is a fan supporters site, how could you possibly endorse losing??? I pay my hard earned bucks to go see as many games a year as possible, and feed Rogers countless dollars for their new sports channels just to watch every game. I don't care if WE DO lose, but only if we try our heart out each game.
Anyone who supports losing is a loser, a born loser.
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Multipaul wrote: View PostAny poster here who says we should lose should be banned. This is a fan supporters site, how could you possibly endorse losing??? I pay my hard earned bucks to go see as many games a year as possible, and feed Rogers countless dollars for their new sports channels just to watch every game. I don't care if WE DO lose, but only if we try our heart out each game.
Anyone who supports losing is a loser, a born loser.
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sleepz wrote: View PostHe didn't say that. He said to be prepared to watch a loser. There is a difference.
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Multipaul wrote: View PostSorry, that sentiment was directed to Vinnie's post, not specifically at Carefoot's blog (which I have a very love/hate feeling towards, sometimes i think he subscribes to the "Feschuk" school of journalism, other times he is bang on)
I think he mentioned he wants BC fired, which is another argument altogether considering his contract is up and if they re-sign him (maybe the Raps scrap and claw to an 8th or 9th place finish?) then we're looking at another 2-4 year run for BC, and I only speak for myself when I say that his possible re-signing is a dreadful thought for the future of this franchise.
I don't enjoy watching the Raps lose, however I look at the talent and roster make-up of this team and I envision a tough year for them. If they play hard and do well, thats cool, but if they lose 50+ I won't be surprised in the least and if they end up getting a top 3 pick, I will get over the year in a hurry, especially if BC is gone going into the 2011-2012 season.
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Nick wrote: View PostI don't get it, why is BC such a bad GM?
the best centers he paired bosh with was bargs, a banged up j.o. rasho nesterovic, and jake voshkul.
the best wingmen on the team since bc was here were joey graham, jason kapono, carlos delfino, hedo turkoglu, and linus kleiza
overpaid for amir...
gave jose a $45 million over 5 years contract after he had 1 decent season in which jose didnt even start for most of the games or avg more than 30 min...
Jermaine O'neil had 2 years and over 40 million left on his contract. Indiana was desperate to get rid of him... in his last season with the pacers jermain averaged 13 n 6. now is this really a player that we should not only have to take on the bad contract but then also GIVE UP A 1st ROUND PICK (who happened to be Roy Hibbert, a defensive centre that we need)
Less than a year after acquiring J.O. we trade him to Miami, along WITH ANOTHER 1ST ROUND PICK, for marion and banks. now banks' had a contract that went past the 2010 free agent summer, and Miami was desperate to get rid of it... so did we really have to give up a 1st round pick for 2 months of shawn marion and we had to take the banks contract ?
what if bosh signed with houston or chicago.. we would never get that 1st round pick back.
BC traded 2 2nd round picks for carlos delfino... one of those 2nd round pick detroit used to draft jonas jerebko. a very cheap but very talented SF who can play defense. he average 10pts 6 rbds inhis rookie year and is 6'10.
he signed jason kapono a SF who cant play DEFENSE at 12:01am on the first day of free agency and gave him $24 million over 4 years.
if players are reluctant to sign in toronto because it's not in the USA, then our best method of acquiring good players would be through the draft. look at how happy derozan, davis, alibi, and even bosh and vince were when they were 19 and got picked by an nba team... so why are we giving away draft picks ?
also can you say that bc has a vision when in the same summer, he tries to acquire kleiza, barnes, diaw, barbosa, wright... it feels like he is just interested in floating above water and not really ever developing. he is only interested in getting players that will just get us by and we will be in 9-12 place all season.
without 2 time nba mvp steve nash on the court making everyone better, BC doesnt have a clue on how to put together a team that will go deep in the playoffs...
Edit: He also traded for TJ Ford then signed him to a deal that TJ is still enjoying today. I belive its between $8 and $9 million this year.Last edited by vinnie_paz; Thu Aug 26, 2010, 05:23 PM.
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RecklessIndifference wrote: View PostWay to ignore every single one of Jerry Colangelo's accomplishments in Basketball
I'd say he has a better 'basketball related' family history than our other GM's
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Buddahfan wrote: View Post1. I think you are getting way ahead of things with this post.
2. It seems that you are defining "success" as at least getting to the NBA Finals. The Pistons got to the EC Finals six? straight seasons without a superstar. Many would consider that a great success and achievement.
3. At this point I would dare say that over 75% of the Raptors fans would consider 10-11 a success if the Raptors are in the playoffs come next April. You don't need a superstar on your team to make the playoffs.
After the Raptors make the playoffs two seasons in a row then maybe we should revisit that roster and see if there is a player on it at that at time who is considered a superstar or potential superstar that could lead the Raptors to the NBA Finals.
Lets crawl before we walk or before we run.
People seem to think that a year of development, of throwing the young players into the deep end to see how well they can swim, would somehow have these terrible consequences for the franchise. I just don't see it. Losing gets vilified as this thing to be avoided at all costs instead of a by-product of the opportunity to learn on the fly, to make mistakes and to grow, which is what a team full of young players with as-yet-untapped talent requires. This approach is incongruous with making a playoff push unless you have such an impressive collection of talent that you can't help it (see: Thunder). The Raps don't have this kind of talent, and they don't even know what they DO have in most of their young guys. In order to find out, they're going to try a variety of offensive and defensive schemes, lineups, plays, roles, etc.. A team with this much to learn about itself is going to have a VERY hard time putting it all together quickly enough to make the 8th seed.
As for the Pistons, two things: Firstly, put them in the western conference during that time frame and they'd have a fraction of their success. Secondly, just because Billups and Wallace weren't labeled as superstars doesn't mean they didn't impact the play of their team in the same way.
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vinnie_paz wrote: View Postdrafted a PF when our franchise player was a PF...
the best centers he paired bosh with was bargs, a banged up j.o. rasho nesterovic, and jake voshkul.
the best wingmen on the team since bc was here were joey graham, jason kapono, carlos delfino, hedo turkoglu, and linus kleiza
overpaid for amir...
gave jose a $45 million over 5 years contract after he had 1 decent season in which jose didnt even start for most of the games or avg more than 30 min...
Jermaine O'neil had 2 years and over 40 million left on his contract. Indiana was desperate to get rid of him... in his last season with the pacers jermain averaged 13 n 6. now is this really a player that we should not only have to take on the bad contract but then also GIVE UP A 1st ROUND PICK (who happened to be Roy Hibbert, a defensive centre that we need)
Less than a year after acquiring J.O. we trade him to Miami, along WITH ANOTHER 1ST ROUND PICK, for marion and banks. now banks' had a contract that went past the 2010 free agent summer, and Miami was desperate to get rid of it... so did we really have to give up a 1st round pick for 2 months of shawn marion and we had to take the banks contract ?
what if bosh signed with houston or chicago.. we would never get that 1st round pick back.
BC traded 2 2nd round picks for carlos delfino... one of those 2nd round pick detroit used to draft jonas jerebko. a very cheap but very talented SF who can play defense. he average 10pts 6 rbds inhis rookie year and is 6'10.
he signed jason kapono a SF who cant play DEFENSE at 12:01am on the first day of free agency and gave him $24 million over 4 years.
if players are reluctant to sign in toronto because it's not in the USA, then our best method of acquiring good players would be through the draft. look at how happy derozan, davis, alibi, and even bosh and vince were when they were 19 and got picked by an nba team... so why are giving away draft picks ?
also can you say that bc has a vision when in the same summer, he tries to acquire kleiza, barnes, diaw, barbosa, wright... it feels like he is just interested in floating above water and not really ever developing.
without 2 time nba mvp steve nash on the court making everyone better, BC doesnt have a clue on how to put together a team that will go deep in the playoffs...
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