Does Anybody Else Find This Type Of Attitude In A Fan Tasteless?

[sleepz]

Dude, take a look at the NBA landscape. there are ALOT of teams out there that could never attract players even half as good as JO, Turk ,etc. We are not in that bad a shape. I don't know how old you are, but I lived through the dark days of the Raptors, where Jalen Rose was our go-to guy. Trust me kid, it ain't that bad. Google Rob Babcock- that is how bad we had it.

www.miamiheat.com, you can find useful links to post your rhetoric there

I'm old enough to have been watching Alvin Robertson, Willie Anderson, C. Rogers, Damon and the boys being coached up by Brendan Malone and playing hard every night while losing most games. I've been watching basketball for quite some time. Showtime, Bad Boys era, as well as the hated Celts with the REAL big three.

It's interesting you bring up Babcock though. He acutally set the table (him and Embry) nicely for BC. Maybe we should use Grunwald as a better point of comparison who actually showed me more promise and gave me more hope for this Raps team than Bryan Colangelo ever has.

It is hard in the NBA landscape to attract talent as you've mentioned, so maybe BC should try a different method of acquiring that talent? Maybe draft a few players instead of trading away picks like they don't matter? BC's making million selling slurpees to the delusional Bargnani fanboys who like having someone in the NBA that looks like themselves. (in a dimly lit room of course) lol

You suggest I should go to the Heat website? Why? Because i'm not praising and making excuses for a fraud GM like you, or making a martyr out of a player that has not accomplished anything in 4 years other than getting a COY fired, making an all-star run for the hills, and telling the fans how lazy he is AFTER singing a healthy contract extension? lol. You're funny.

I'll be following the Heat like I follow every other team in the NBA, but I will continue to follow the Raps as a fan of the team and being the city I live in, like I always have since '95 'kid'.

It's going to be fun listening to the excuses when reality will dawn on you around game 25. Keep posting though, cause I will be there all year to remind you of how truly BAD it is.

[Multipaul]

I'm old enough to have been watching Alvin Robertson, Willie Anderson, C. Rogers, Damon and the boys being coached up by Brendan Malone and playing hard every night while losing most games. I've been watching basketball for quite some time. Showtime, Bad Boys era, as well as the hated Celts with the REAL big three.

It's interesting you bring up Babcock though. He acutally set the table (him and Embry) nicely for BC. Maybe we should use Grunwald as a better point of comparison who actually showed me more promise and gave me more hope for this Raps team than Bryan Colangelo ever has.

It is hard in the NBA landscape to attract talent as you've mentioned, so maybe BC should try a different method of acquiring that talent? Maybe draft a few players instead of trading away picks like they don't matter? BC's making million selling slurpees to the delusional Bargnani fanboys who like having someone in the NBA that looks like themselves. (in a dimly lit room of course) lol

You suggest I should go to the Heat website? Why? Because i'm not praising and making excuses for a fraud GM like you, or making a martyr out of a player that has not accomplished anything in 4 years other than getting a COY fired, making an all-star run for the hills, and telling the fans how lazy he is AFTER singing a healthy contract extension? lol. You're funny.

I'll be following the Heat like I follow every other team in the NBA, but I will continue to follow the Raps as a fan of the team and being the city I live in, like I always have since '95 'kid'.

It's going to be fun listening to the excuses when reality will dawn on you around game 25. Keep posting though, cause I will be there all year to remind you of how truly BAD it is.

"making an all-star run for the hills"

that about sums it up

[Scott Carefoot]

Mr. Carefoot's just prepping you for reality.

This was my intent. I'm not an advocate of "tanking", I just don't think this team has the talent to win more than 30 games. Obviously, this could change depending on how Colangelo uses the TPE.

Sorry, that sentiment was directed to Vinnie's post, not specifically at Carefoot's blog (which I have a very love/hate feeling towards, sometimes i think he subscribes to the "Feschuk" school of journalism, other times he is bang on)

Comparing me to Feschuk? Ouch, that hurts. I can't speak to Feschuk's motives, but I never write anything just to be provocative or contrarian. I try to take stances and provide analysis that I haven't seen elsewhere. That's always been the intent of my blog and it's the reason I don't post as often as other blogs. If somebody's already written about a topic and I don't think I have a fresh take on it, I leave it to the many other solid Raptors blogs (including this one) to cover it.

Anyway, I found this thread because I was getting a ton of referrals from here and figured I'd join for funzies. Since I've broken my RR Forum cherry here, please be gentle with me.

[Buddahfan]

Of course you can make the playoffs without a superstar, but what's the point in doing so? Exactly where do you go from there? How are you able to add talent from that point on without trading away the assets that got you there in the first place? Are you simply hoping to get lucky with a late first round or second round draft pick? Making the playoffs with a collection of mediocre talent is in no way a path to future success unless that team is full of young pieces that are making large strides in their development. I would put the Raptors in the former category, not the latter.

People seem to think that a year of development, of throwing the young players into the deep end to see how well they can swim, would somehow have these terrible consequences for the franchise. I just don't see it. Losing gets vilified as this thing to be avoided at all costs instead of a by-product of the opportunity to learn on the fly, to make mistakes and to grow, which is what a team full of young players with as-yet-untapped talent requires. This approach is incongruous with making a playoff push unless you have such an impressive collection of talent that you can't help it (see: Thunder). The Raps don't have this kind of talent, and they don't even know what they DO have in most of their young guys. In order to find out, they're going to try a variety of offensive and defensive schemes, lineups, plays, roles, etc.. A team with this much to learn about itself is going to have a VERY hard time putting it all together quickly enough to make the 8th seed.

As for the Pistons, two things: Firstly, put them in the western conference during that time frame and they'd have a fraction of their success. Secondly, just because Billups and Wallace weren't labeled as superstars doesn't mean they didn't impact the play of their team in the same way.

1. Let me start with the Pistons - People made this comment a lot about them when they were winning. So I went and looked at a couple of the seasons comparing the Pistons winning percentage against WC teams to actual WC teams winning percentage against other WC teams and as I recall also for their entire 82 games each season.

The Pistons came out as I recall 1st in one season and 2nd in another. That means for those two season that the Pistons would have have finished either first or second in the WC if they were in the WC during those two season.

You can go check it for yourself if you want. I don't recall which two seasons I used but as I remember it was two of the ones in which they got to the EC Finals but not the NBA Finals.

2. It is only your opinion that the Raptors won't have the player or player's necessary to get to the NBA Finals within two seasons after they have made the playoffs for two seasons in a row.

With all due respect

A. You have no idea who the Raptors will draft during that period.
B. You have no idea how the young talent they have will develop individually and as a team. You are just giving your opinion. Not to discredit it but I doubt that you can see into the future with any degree of accuracy in this area.
C. You have no idea who the Raptors may trade for during this period.
D. You have no idea what free agents the Raptors may sign during that period.

So the idea that the you need a superstar to win in the NBA has not been proven by fact. First we would have to agree on whether any of the teams that have gotten, not necessarily won, to the NBA Finals since the end of the Jordan era have done so without a superstar. If you want to list who you think was a superstar among the two Finalists going back the last 20+ years, I will be glad to debate whether I agree that any of them are a superstar. This is after we agree on how you define a superstar. You can start if you would like to.

Even if we come to an agreement that supports your position we would still have to wait and see what happens with this core unit over the next seven seasons, who is subtracted and who is added along with the Raptors regular season and playoff standings before we will be able to prove or disprove your theory.

Right now your theory is just your opinion.

This is not conclusive enough to win an argument on basketball with me.

So you are voicing your opinion on the future and it is noted. Thank you.

[Nick]

drafted a PF when our franchise player was a PF...

the best centers he paired bosh with was bargs, a banged up j.o. rasho nesterovic, and jake voshkul.

the best wingmen on the team since bc was here were joey graham, jason kapono, carlos delfino, hedo turkoglu, and linus kleiza

overpaid for amir...

gave jose a $45 million over 5 years contract after he had 1 decent season in which jose didnt even start for most of the games or avg more than 30 min...

Jermaine O'neil had 2 years and over 40 million left on his contract. Indiana was desperate to get rid of him... in his last season with the pacers jermain averaged 13 n 6. now is this really a player that we should not only have to take on the bad contract but then also GIVE UP A 1st ROUND PICK (who happened to be Roy Hibbert, a defensive centre that we need)

Less than a year after acquiring J.O. we trade him to Miami, along WITH ANOTHER 1ST ROUND PICK, for marion and banks. now banks' had a contract that went past the 2010 free agent summer, and Miami was desperate to get rid of it... so did we really have to give up a 1st round pick for 2 months of shawn marion and we had to take the banks contract ?

what if bosh signed with houston or chicago.. we would never get that 1st round pick back.

BC traded 2 2nd round picks for carlos delfino... one of those 2nd round pick detroit used to draft jonas jerebko. a very cheap but very talented SF who can play defense. he average 10pts 6 rbds inhis rookie year and is 6'10.

he signed jason kapono a SF who cant play DEFENSE at 12:01am on the first day of free agency and gave him $24 million over 4 years.

if players are reluctant to sign in toronto because it's not in the USA, then our best method of acquiring good players would be through the draft. look at how happy derozan, davis, alibi, and even bosh and vince were when they were 19 and got picked by an nba team... so why are we giving away draft picks ?

also can you say that bc has a vision when in the same summer, he tries to acquire kleiza, barnes, diaw, barbosa, wright... it feels like he is just interested in floating above water and not really ever developing. he is only interested in getting players that will just get us by and we will be in 9-12 place all season.

without 2 time nba mvp steve nash on the court making everyone better, BC doesnt have a clue on how to put together a team that will go deep in the playoffs...

Whaaaaat-ever... BC's job was to build around Bosh, and thats exactly what he did, creatively at that. Your saying all these guys were such bad signing, what were our other options? You can't just spout off about how this signing was bad and that signing was bad, because in reality, you literally have no idea what goes on within the Raptors franchise. If there were better options then he would of done it (Isn't this a no-brainer?) To say Amir is over-paid is so unoriginal, why don't you develop your own outlook and not just listen to what the mainstream media who has no idea about the Raptors.

[Buddahfan]

I have already proven that Amir is not overpaid in 10-11

Wednesday, August 11, 2010

Cost Per Win Share Created Amir Does Welll

In this case Johnson was the fifth most productive among this group of Forwards when it comes to producing Win Shares; i.e. Wins for the team, based upon his actual minutes played in 09-10 and his 10-11 salary.

On the other hand Bargnani was only the 15th most cost effective player out of this group and costs MLSE twice as much per win produced than Johnson.

You can go to my Amir Johnson blog here to see the actual numbers

[Multipaul]

This was my intent. I'm not an advocate of "tanking", I just don't think this team has the talent to win more than 30 games. Obviously, this could change depending on how Colangelo uses the TPE.



Comparing me to Feschuk? Ouch, that hurts. I can't speak to Feschuk's motives, but I never write anything just to be provocative or contrarian. I try to take stances and provide analysis that I haven't seen elsewhere. That's always been the intent of my blog and it's the reason I don't post as often as other blogs. If somebody's already written about a topic and I don't think I have a fresh take on it, I leave it to the many other solid Raptors blogs (including this one) to cover it.

Anyway, I found this thread because I was getting a ton of referrals from here and figured I'd join for funzies. Since I've broken my RR Forum cherry here, please be gentle with me.

Welcome aboard!

[Pizzaman]

Anthony Parker older and not as good as when he played with your Rupaul started and played on a team LeBron took to the best record in the NBA, something RuPaul could not no matter who his teamates were which is why he cuckolded and agreed to be the main bitch queen for two real stars.
B.C. did everything possible with what the Raptors had to trade and pay to build around RuPaul and it did not work. I'm convinced B.C. knew it likely would not yet could not convince Peddie and Tanenbaum to trade him.
I would rather watch a 25 win TEAM than a 40 win season led by the RuPaul of the league who built his own stats while never helping out any other players, or the team in general.
Tanking on purpose is for losers only, and I cannot imagine anyone ever trying to lose at anything unless you're playing with a little kid and want them to build confidence.

[Pizzaman]

Anthony Parker older and not as good as when he played with your Rupaul started and played on a team LeBron took to the best record in the NBA, something RuPaul could not no matter who his teamates were which is why he cuckolded and agreed to be the main bitch queen for two real stars.
B.C. did everything possible with what the Raptors had to trade and pay to build around RuPaul and it did not work. I'm convinced B.C. knew it likely would not yet could not convince Peddie and Tanenbaum to trade him.
I would rather watch a 25 win TEAM than a 40 win season led by the RuPaul of the league who built his own stats while never helping out any other players, or the team in general.
Tanking on purpose is for losers only, and I cannot imagine anyone ever trying to lose at anything unless you're playing with a little kid and want them to build confidence.

This was meant in reply to sleepz comments earlier in the post.

[Pizzaman]

I'm old enough to have been watching Alvin Robertson, Willie Anderson, C. Rogers, Damon and the boys being coached up by Brendan Malone and playing hard every night while losing most games. I've been watching basketball for quite some time. Showtime, Bad Boys era, as well as the hated Celts with the REAL big three.

It's interesting you bring up Babcock though. He acutally set the table (him and Embry) nicely for BC. Maybe we should use Grunwald as a better point of comparison who actually showed me more promise and gave me more hope for this Raps team than Bryan Colangelo ever has.

It is hard in the NBA landscape to attract talent as you've mentioned, so maybe BC should try a different method of acquiring that talent? Maybe draft a few players instead of trading away picks like they don't matter? BC's making million selling slurpees to the delusional Bargnani fanboys who like having someone in the NBA that looks like themselves. (in a dimly lit room of course) lol

You suggest I should go to the Heat website? Why? Because i'm not praising and making excuses for a fraud GM like you, or making a martyr out of a player that has not accomplished anything in 4 years other than getting a COY fired, making an all-star run for the hills, and telling the fans how lazy he is AFTER singing a healthy contract extension? lol. You're funny.

I'll be following the Heat like I follow every other team in the NBA, but I will continue to follow the Raps as a fan of the team and being the city I live in, like I always have since '95 'kid'.

It's going to be fun listening to the excuses when reality will dawn on you around game 25. Keep posting though, cause I will be there all year to remind you of how truly BAD it is.

Is that really why you hate Bargnani so much sleepz?? Is it because he's white and obviously cannot play if he is? ""The delusional Bargnani fanboys who like having someone in the NBA that looks like themselves""
Nice quote from a racist. Is that why you slam Bargnani in every breath yet contiue to praise girly ass RuPaul, and you praise the Young Gunz even though they've accomplished nothing, and you say Jack is the better of him and Jose?
I agree Jack has heart and works hard, but Jose has more talent when he sleeps than Jack but I think now we can really see your motivation, and why you have a hate on for all Euros even calling Kleiza a Euro when clearly he's not. Kleiza was born somewhere else like many of us Canadians ( of which you're also not), but he played basketball in the American system.
Perhaps why you hate B.C. so much is because he has built a team with some players that actually look like some of the fans do.
And you thought others racist!!
Get a life pal.

[vinnie_paz]

Whaaaaat-ever... BC's job was to build around Bosh, and thats exactly what he did, creatively at that. Your saying all these guys were such bad signing, what were our other options? You can't just spout off about how this signing was bad and that signing was bad, because in reality, you literally have no idea what goes on within the Raptors franchise. If there were better options then he would of done it (Isn't this a no-brainer?) To say Amir is over-paid is so unoriginal, why don't you develop your own outlook and not just listen to what the mainstream media who has no idea about the Raptors.

i did give my own opinion. and i asked if anyone here thought that we needed to give a 1st round pick to get J.O. and then we needed to give another 1st round pick for shawn marion for 2 months... i can see how you would want to disagree but by saying "Whaaaaaaaat-ever" doesnt really help take the discussion further.

[vinnie_paz]

I don't think its impossible for the Raps to make the playoffs. The Raps have the most underated nucleus in the league, which is understandable. You usually don't get proactive outlooks from experts based on accomplishing nothing. I think the Raps will have much better chemistry then allot of the teams in the Eastern conference though. This alone will propel the Raps to allot more wins then people think.

how do you know the raps will have better chemistry before the season has even started ?

are you hanging out with the young gunz of every team in the east this summer ? i dont think so.

so on what grounds can you say the raps will have better chemistry than most teams in the east ?

[Pele]

Exciting Mediocrity

I've said it before. Bosh was like Mats Sundin; a good player who, unfortunately, is not good enough to build a team around. It was a recipe for failure from the start. (time to get rid of BC)

The Raps will probably come out slow over the first twenty. (6-14), they'll compete over the next 40 (27-13, just enough to give some hope) and then they'll tank over the last 22 as teams get serious about the playoffs. (4-18)

That makes for a 37 win season and a 9-13th pick in next years draft.

Weems/Derozan/Davis highlight reels and Solomon's development are the only things I look forward to.

[vinnie_paz]

Is that really why you hate Bargnani so much sleepz?? Is it because he's white and obviously cannot play if he is? ""The delusional Bargnani fanboys who like having someone in the NBA that looks like themselves""
Nice quote from a racist. Is that why you slam Bargnani in every breath yet contiue to praise girly ass RuPaul, and you praise the Young Gunz even though they've accomplished nothing, and you say Jack is the better of him and Jose?
I agree Jack has heart and works hard, but Jose has more talent when he sleeps than Jack but I think now we can really see your motivation, and why you have a hate on for all Euros even calling Kleiza a Euro when clearly he's not. Kleiza was born somewhere else like many of us Canadians ( of which you're also not), but he played basketball in the American system.
Perhaps why you hate B.C. so much is because he has built a team with some players that actually look like some of the fans do.
And you thought others racist!!
Get a life pal.

why do always just insult anyone who has a different opinion ?

your posts are always FILLED WITH NOTHING BUT INSULTS.

you do the forum a huge disservice by acting this way.

[Pizzaman]

I do?? Are you kidding? All he does is insult everyone who is just trying to be a fan and like a few players. What does his comment mean then if it is not insulting?
How can you say I insult people when he clearly just insulted many of us?