Does Anybody Else Find This Type Of Attitude In A Fan Tasteless?

[noxleno]

This thread is in response to this guy's article: http://ht.ly/2v4fP

Ignoring whatever Mr. Carefoot is trying to say regarding Bargnani and Villanueva, I wanted

to get the RR community's opinions on the implications of this type of pro-losing philosophy.

This guy might not admit it, but by saying that we should be happy to simply watch

the players progress and hope to obtain one of the "can't miss" draft prosepcts, he is

advocating losing. I agree, development doesn't have to be painful to watch, but this

is essentially saying we should enjoy losing. I don't know about you, but I'd much

prefer the Raps to be "scrappy" and competing for the 8th seed; if they squeeze into the

playoffs, that could be an invaluable confidence boost for the young guys. THAT is the

best thing for development, not losing and playing at their allegedly poor level.

One person even commented that he does not consider it selling out your team to

ACTIVELY ROOT AGAINST THEM..... WTF? I'd like to both compete AND develop,

thanks. What do you guys think? I think to sit back and actually root for your team to lose

in order to achieve a high draft pick is tasteless and gutless, especially before the season

has even started!

[JoePanini]

I would be quite happy with a top 5 pick though. I don't mean to be a "bad fan" but I honestly don't feel we can win more than 40 wins. I think if we even win 40 games, it would be VERY disappointing. Because not only we don't make the play-offs, we even get a low pick. I would rather everyone plays as well as they can (which won't win us 40 games anyways) and play exciting basketball. Then we draft Kyrie. I'm not rooting for us to lose, but we won't win 50% of our games. And if we don't get a high pick, we will NEVER develop, unless we have extremely lucky on sided trades, or DeMar averages 20 a game, and Bargnani avergas 20-8 and learns to play defence. I think we should take advantage of this year, and draft a true talent. Most great teams make their way through great draft picks. Orlando and Howard. Cleveland and James. OKC and Durant and Westbrook etc..

[noxleno]

Yes, you make a good point. And I'd like to reiterate that I'm not saying it's tasteless to look at possible upsides if the Raps do utterly fail; there' nothing wrong with saying, "hey, they didn't win too many games, hopefully we'll get something good from the draft. Also, I realize it's foolish to maintain false hopes that the Raps stun us all with a 50 win season. I just think people need to wait until they do actually fail, then discuss the potential benefit, rather than wish for them to do badly to get a high draft pick. After all, we could have the worst record in the league and still miss the first three picks. Then how would you feel, knowing you've waited patiently and stoically endured the losses with the hopes of it being beneficial only to realize that it was in vain?

[JoePanini]

But don't we pretty much know that we won't make the play-offs. Eventhough I hate Bosh, and I feel without him we give chances to other players. We are worse of a team this year than last, and we didn't even make the play-offs last year. I think we should trade Jose for Dampier. Waive Dampier. Then next year draft a high pick hopefully. Next years prospects look promising..

[heinz57]

i care about the sport.

hoping your team loses is for losers. no way around it.. no way to defend your loserish ways.

it's like hoping to score a hot chick by fucking her fat friends as a way in

i'd rather make a try at the hot chick and get rejected, rather then swim through a mountain of lard so that pizza the hutt will give you a hook up with her hottie friend based on your dickmanship

[EverythingBlaxx]

Let's be clear, Scott isn't promoting tanking or hoping we lose a bunch of games so we get a high draft pick. He's trying to prepare us for what is going to be a very difficult season and providing us with a bright side. Let's face it, this team as presently constructed is not very good. They are going to get blown out some nights, other nights they are going to lose some very close games. This year is going to be tough and we're probably looking at a 25-win season

[Buddahfan]

To begin with I do not believe that Bargnani will be the best Raptors player or even among the top two in 10-11. Third best will be the best if he can get his defense together more than it was in 09-10. If he can't than he could be the worst Raptors starter.

Bottom line is that there is no way that Bargani will be the Raptors best player or even their second best player in 10-11.

Now I can see why a lot of people think that the Raptors will do so poorly in 10-11.

If I also thought that Bargnani was going to be the Raptors first or second best player, when you combine offense and defense than I to would be forecasting a 25-30 win season.

[blackjitsu]

That's what a young draftee wants. To be picked up by a team that has a tradition of not trying and losing. Someone explain to me how that was beneficial for New Jersey this off-season. I'd rather have a team stuck in mediocrity than be a perpetual loser. You'll never keep your draft picks. But this team is going to surprise people. I really think this is a non-stater.

[Arsenalist]

If having the worst record in the league guaranteed you the top pick, I could see some sense in going the tank route. BUT, it's not and NJ is a prime example that just because you suck doesn't mean you're going to get rewarded for it.

Unless a team has been tracking and targeting a particular player and are hell-bent in trying to have a go at him, they can try ruining a season hoping he'll be the saviour. Even that doesn't make much sense, though, since if you really wanted that player you could have a go at him via a trade on draft day or after the fact.

Top Five pick doesn't mean anything. Certainly not enough to waste a whole season and solidify the Raptors' impression as losers.

[Nick]

The Eastern conference is really good this year. However, I don't think its impossible for the Raps to make the playoffs. The Raps have the most underated nucleus in the league, which is understandable. You usually don't get proactive outlooks from experts based on accomplishing nothing. I think the Raps will have much better chemistry then allot of the teams in the Eastern conference though. This alone will propel the Raps to allot more wins then people think.

[RecklessIndifference]

Plenty of teams make a living drafting later. It's not about getting the top pick, it's about drafting smart, and maybe getting lucky here and there. It's about grooming the players you do have, building around a system and keeping the players that make a difference.

The Cons of tanking a season far outweigh the benefits (bad player moral = players leaving, players not coming, draft picks not working out for your team)

[vinnie_paz]

i hope the team loses but only because i want bc fired.

and i hope the next gm doesnt come from a family with billions of dollars, and isnt a used car salesman.

[Lark Benson]

100% agree with Carefoot. Whether you like it or not, success in the NBA today requires at least one superstar on your team, preferably 2-3 (and yes the 2004 Pistons were an exception, but that's a freak accident that hasn't been duplicated in long, long time). Now consider how the Raptors are going to acquire a superstar. Free agency? Doubtful. Trade? Unlikely, and you typically have to give away your best assets to complete the trade, leaving the cupboard bare and the clock ticking before the superstar bolts at the end of their likely-to-be-expiring-soon contract. That leaves the draft.

As for this idea of a losing culture, it's bullshit. More specifically, it's a fairy tale invented by sports writers with nothing else to write about. Were we talking about Cleveland's losing culture once they drafted LeBron? How about Orlando after Dwight Howard? Miami after Wade? What about LA during the years where it was Kobe and not much else? You heard anyone mentioning Chicago's losing culture once they got Rose and Noah? Once a team acquires talent and begins to win games, it's past is no longer an issue unless management continues too make it one (see: Clippers).

In fact I'd go so far as to say that Derozan would be FAR more likely to bolt at the end of his contract if the Raps can't add more young talent and be in a position to start making some 2nd and 3rd round playoff noise. How many NBA players do you think want to sit on a team that's a perennial bubble playoff team with no hope of competing for a championship? I'd bet not many. It's a lot easier to endure the darkness if there's a light at the end of the tunnel.

[vinnie_paz]

100% agree with Carefoot. Whether you like it or not, success in the NBA today requires at least one superstar on your team, preferably 2-3 (and yes the 2004 Pistons were an exception, but that's a freak accident that hasn't been duplicated in long, long time). Now consider how the Raptors are going to acquire a superstar. Free agency? Doubtful. Trade? Unlikely, and you typically have to give away your best assets to complete the trade, leaving the cupboard bare and the clock ticking before the superstar bolts at the end of their likely-to-be-expiring-soon contract. That leaves the draft.

As for this idea of a losing culture, it's bullshit. More specifically, it's a fairy tale invented by sports writers with nothing else to write about. Were we talking about Cleveland's losing culture once they drafted LeBron? How about Orlando after Dwight Howard? Miami after Wade? What about LA during the years where it was Kobe and not much else? You heard anyone mentioning Chicago's losing culture once they got Rose and Noah? Once a team acquires talent and begins to win games, it's past is no longer an issue unless management continues too make it one (see: Clippers).

In fact I'd go so far as to say that Derozan would be FAR more likely to bolt at the end of his contract if the Raps can't add more young talent and be in a position to start making some 2nd and 3rd round playoff noise. How many NBA players do you think want to sit on a team that's a perennial bubble playoff team with no hope of competing for a championship? I'd bet not many. It's a lot easier to endure the darkness if there's a light at the end of the tunnel.

agree, but when you GM trades away draft picks like their baseball cards, then even the light at the end of the tunnel gets very dim.

[RecklessIndifference]

i hope the team loses but only because i want bc fired.

and i hope the next gm doesnt come from a family with billions of dollars, and isnt a used car salesman.

Way to ignore every single one of Jerry Colangelo's accomplishments in Basketball

I'd say he has a better 'basketball related' family history than our other GM's

[Nick]

i hope the team loses but only because i want bc fired.

and i hope the next gm doesnt come from a family with billions of dollars, and isnt a used car salesman.

I don't get it, why is BC such a bad GM?

[vinnie_paz]

Way to ignore every single one of Jerry Colangelo's accomplishments in Basketball

I'd say he has a better 'basketball related' family history than our other GM's

yea JERRY COLANGELO's accomplishments....i was talking about BRYAN COLANGELO...

[RecklessIndifference]

yea JERRY COLANGELO's accomplishments....i was talking about BRYAN COLANGELO...

No you were talking about his FAMILY history

[Buddahfan]

100% agree with Carefoot. Whether you like it or not, success in the NBA today requires at least one superstar on your team, preferably 2-3 (and yes the 2004 Pistons were an exception, but that's a freak accident that hasn't been duplicated in long, long time). Now consider how the Raptors are going to acquire a superstar. Free agency? Doubtful. Trade? Unlikely, and you typically have to give away your best assets to complete the trade, leaving the cupboard bare and the clock ticking before the superstar bolts at the end of their likely-to-be-expiring-soon contract. That leaves the draft.

As for this idea of a losing culture, it's bullshit. More specifically, it's a fairy tale invented by sports writers with nothing else to write about. Were we talking about Cleveland's losing culture once they drafted LeBron? How about Orlando after Dwight Howard? Miami after Wade? What about LA during the years where it was Kobe and not much else? You heard anyone mentioning Chicago's losing culture once they got Rose and Noah? Once a team acquires talent and begins to win games, it's past is no longer an issue unless management continues too make it one (see: Clippers).

In fact I'd go so far as to say that Derozan would be FAR more likely to bolt at the end of his contract if the Raps can't add more young talent and be in a position to start making some 2nd and 3rd round playoff noise. How many NBA players do you think want to sit on a team that's a perennial bubble playoff team with no hope of competing for a championship? I'd bet not many. It's a lot easier to endure the darkness if there's a light at the end of the tunnel.

1. I think you are getting way ahead of things with this post.
2. It seems that you are defining "success" as at least getting to the NBA Finals. The Pistons got to the EC Finals six? straight seasons without a superstar. Many would consider that a great success and achievement.
3. At this point I would dare say that over 75% of the Raptors fans would consider 10-11 a success if the Raptors are in the playoffs come next April. You don't need a superstar on your team to make the playoffs.

After the Raptors make the playoffs two seasons in a row then maybe we should revisit that roster and see if there is a player on it at that at time who is considered a superstar or potential superstar that could lead the Raptors to the NBA Finals.

Lets crawl before we walk or before we run.

[heinz57]

i worked for my dad at one point.... it f'in SUCKED BALLS... you cant slack off when your boss is your dad

if you do slack off, even for a second... everyone sees you as a lecherous coat tail rider..

people are narrow minded like that... its tough having to live up to being the boss's kid... there's always going to be some douche who didnt actually pay attention to your work and only to the fact that your boss is your dad, that is going to want to tear you down without warrant