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Thread: Did The Raps Mess Up Barg's Development?

  1. #41
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    Tim W said:

    ""Perhaps it wasn't the Raptors who hindered his development, but his parents for coddling him too much as a boy, or maybe the school system that never challenged him. Or maybe it's Italian society that's to blame, bringing up a generation of mamma's boys who don't know how to take care of themselves. ""

    Where do you get this stuff Tim? "Italian society for bringing up a generation of mammas boys who don't know how to take care of themselves""

    WTF do you know about Italian society, or how the mamma's raise the boys, or whether they can look after themselves?

    Are you suggesting the only way for any player to ever be good in the NBA is to grow up without a father, and most times raised by a grandmother since your parents were crackheads? Sure those kids learn to grow up fast if that's what you call it but I would rather have a talented player that respects himself, his family, his fans,hi teamates, and his management, who does not complain, does not get mouthy ( Wright).

    Again it is not Barg's fault he was chosen #1, and he was a development project from day one since he had never played NBA basketball, or American college ball. He has progressed every year even though he has had horrible coaching and mentoring. He will continue to improve and play very well alongside Amir, Davis and Kleiza, all while keeping his mouth shut and doing his job.

    I like a player who isn't always bragging about himself, and showboating. Something wrong with a mature 24 year old kid who's still trying to improve his game?

  2. #42
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    Quote Tim W. wrote: View Post
    ...Then again, no one seems to be forcing Bargnani to do ANYTHING different. Or more precisely, Bargnani has not done anything that wasn't his strength. They haven't forced him to be a back to basket player, a banger, or anything that he wasn't coming into the league.

    I'm not quite sure what the Raptors could have done differently. It's not as if they hid him on the bench, or asked him to do things he wasn't capable of or that hurt his development. He averaged more minutes in his second second than Amir Johnson got last season, despite shooting under 40% and being a liability on the defensive end. For those who think Sam Mitchell unfairly benched him, Bargnani was basically given the starting center position in his second season, but couldn't keep it due to poor play. He was given several chances throughout the season to get it back but never took advantage. That falls squarely on him.

    Perhaps it wasn't the Raptors who hindered his development, but his parents for coddling him too much as a boy, or maybe the school system that never challenged him. Or maybe it's Italian society that's to blame, bringing up a generation of mamma's boys who don't know how to take care of themselves.

    I'm sure there are lots of people who you could claim are responsible for the lack of development of Bargnani, but in the end it's Bargnani who is ultimately responsible for his career.
    Um, what? Firstly if you had not realized Bargnani changed his ENTIRE basketball style. He entered the league as a 7 footer with good shot and quick feet and decent ball handling skills. And I want to remind you that he weighed 220 lb and barely EVER entered the paint (unless for a layup or occasional dunk). He averaged 11 points, most of them outside the paint. And 4 rebounds with barely any offensive boards and he didn't even average 1 block.

    Then 2 years ago, he came back after the summer having put 30 lb of muscle. And from the first few games we could already see a change in him. He actually looked more fierce under the basket, and attacked it. He still wasn't confident but he went up against other big men, and actually post up on many occasions. He was no longer the lanky italian on the three point line. He improved EVERYTHING. He became more reliable shooter, more reliable inside. And actually defended against other big men. He blocked many shots and played good post defence. He improved his abilities to face double teams and I think improved EVERY facet of his game. And his rebounding went up to 6 and a half. And over one offensive board (which isn't good, but still improvement, and I don't care about your 48 stats or anything, he averaged 2 boards more than his career average.)
    About not taking his chances? You don't remember the months where he averaged 20 points and 6/7 boards? Which he averaged for half of the season.

    And what's with your comment about Italian society? Seriously wtf. You grow up differently here, and who are you to criticize the way kids are brought up in Italy? How do you know all kids are "mamma's boys" how do you know that we aren't thought to take care of ourselves. What a load of bullshit. I don't even need to reply to that, and if you want me to I will but it won't be a very pleasant post.

  3. #43
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    Quote Pizzaman wrote: View Post
    Tim W said:

    ""Perhaps it wasn't the Raptors who hindered his development, but his parents for coddling him too much as a boy, or maybe the school system that never challenged him. Or maybe it's Italian society that's to blame, bringing up a generation of mamma's boys who don't know how to take care of themselves. ""

    Where do you get this stuff Tim? "Italian society for bringing up a generation of mammas boys who don't know how to take care of themselves""

    WTF do you know about Italian society, or how the mamma's raise the boys, or whether they can look after themselves?

    Are you suggesting the only way for any player to ever be good in the NBA is to grow up without a father, and most times raised by a grandmother since your parents were crackheads? Sure those kids learn to grow up fast if that's what you call it but I would rather have a talented player that respects himself, his family, his fans,hi teamates, and his management, who does not complain, does not get mouthy ( Wright).

    Again it is not Barg's fault he was chosen #1, and he was a development project from day one since he had never played NBA basketball, or American college ball. He has progressed every year even though he has had horrible coaching and mentoring. He will continue to improve and play very well alongside Amir, Davis and Kleiza, all while keeping his mouth shut and doing his job.

    I like a player who isn't always bragging about himself, and showboating. Something wrong with a mature 24 year old kid who's still trying to improve his game?
    Uh, I was using sarcasm to make a point. Apparently you didn't catch that. I'll try to be even more obvious next time.

  4. #44
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    Quote Pizzaman wrote: View Post
    Tim W said:

    Or maybe it's Italian society that's to blame, bringing up a generation of mamma's boys who don't know how to take care of themselves. ""
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  5. #45
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    Quote JoePanini wrote: View Post
    Um, what? Firstly if you had not realized Bargnani changed his ENTIRE basketball style. He entered the league as a 7 footer with good shot and quick feet and decent ball handling skills. And I want to remind you that he weighed 220 lb and barely EVER entered the paint (unless for a layup or occasional dunk). He averaged 11 points, most of them outside the paint. And 4 rebounds with barely any offensive boards and he didn't even average 1 block.

    Then 2 years ago, he came back after the summer having put 30 lb of muscle. And from the first few games we could already see a change in him. He actually looked more fierce under the basket, and attacked it. He still wasn't confident but he went up against other big men, and actually post up on many occasions. He was no longer the lanky italian on the three point line. He improved EVERYTHING. He became more reliable shooter, more reliable inside. And actually defended against other big men. He blocked many shots and played good post defence. He improved his abilities to face double teams and I think improved EVERY facet of his game. And his rebounding went up to 6 and a half. And over one offensive board (which isn't good, but still improvement, and I don't care about your 48 stats or anything, he averaged 2 boards more than his career average.)
    About not taking his chances? You don't remember the months where he averaged 20 points and 6/7 boards? Which he averaged for half of the season.

    And what's with your comment about Italian society? Seriously wtf. You grow up differently here, and who are you to criticize the way kids are brought up in Italy? How do you know all kids are "mamma's boys" how do you know that we aren't thought to take care of ourselves. What a load of bullshit. I don't even need to reply to that, and if you want me to I will but it won't be a very pleasant post.
    Okay, first of all, as I stated above the comment about blaming Italy was OBVIOUSLY sarcastic. I was trying to use a stereotype in order to make a point. If you read the whole post, I think it's pretty obvious I wasn't blaming anyone for Bargnani's lack of development. How do you know that? Because I actually said so.

    As for Bargnani, he's gone from a 7 footer who mostly shoots outside to a 7 footer who mostly shoots outside. He really hasn't changed his game that much. Certainly no more than any other player who entered the NBA. You look at any reasonably skilled player and they've certainly made at least the same amount of changes in their game. Players are actually expected to add to their game every year.

    And your comment about Bargnani only averaging 4 rpg and less than a block a game in his first season don't make sense. Look at his per 36 mpg stats. He only averaged 3.9 rpg and 0.8 bpg because he only played 25 mpg. His rebounds and blocks per minute barely have gone up in 4 years. Per 36 minutes, his rpg have gone up 0.7 over four years and his blocks have gone up 0.2. These are not massive improvements, here. Even his scoring has only gone up 1.1 ppg in four years, per 36 minutes. Bosh's rpg went up 2.0 in his first 4 years. And his scoring went from 12.3 to 21.1 over 36 mpg. I know you say you don't care about per minute stats, but you're the one who brought up his improvement in stats, so I just wanted to point out that his statistical improvement has been negligible.

    He has improved facets of his game. There's no denying this. It's a natural thing for players to do. Amir Johnson actually has some semblance of a jumpshot, now and is better on offense. DeRozan appears as though he's worked on his jumpshot as well. Players are expected to improve their game as time goes on. No one has said Bargnani hasn't improved several facets of his game, which is one main reason he's not playing 25 mpg, anymore.

    As for Bargnani averaging "20 points and 6/7 boards? Which he averaged for half of the season. ", that's not exactly true. For two months in the 2008-2009 season he average close to 20 ppg and 6 rpg (not 7), which is not close to half of the 6 months the NBA plays during the regular season. And this past season he had a couple of months when he average 19 and 6. Since he average 17 and 6 for the entire season, I don't see how this is such a revelation.

  6. #46
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    Quote Tim W. wrote: View Post
    Uh, I was using sarcasm to make a point. Apparently you didn't catch that. I'll try to be even more obvious next time.
    No issue...but I did not see sarcasm in those comments but rather a comment about Italians that is not true.
    Anyway I made my point and so did you.

  7. #47
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    Quote Pizzaman wrote: View Post
    No issue...but I did not see sarcasm in those comments but rather a comment about Italians that is not true.
    Anyway I made my point and so did you.
    Just for the record, I have no idea whether Bargnani's parents coddled him or whether the Italian school system challenged him or not. That was sarcasm, too.

  8. #48
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    No problem thanks. When I first read your post it sounded like a slam on Italians etc.. so if it's not what you meant then excuse me for getting annoyed. We don't agree on very much Raptor stuff yet you have not normally resorted to slander or other bs to make your point, so I can take you at your word. Besides most of us are really hot tempered and learn to make our own way. Bargnani happens to be one of those shy guys who does not usually show emotion, and while I like his demeanor and professionalism I would like to see him get pissed more like when he threw Vince carter to the ground.

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