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Thread: Whose ROSTER Is Better: Raps vs Kings?

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    Default Whose ROSTER Is Better: Raps vs Kings?

    Sacramento Kings

    PG - Beno Udrih 28
    SG - Tyreke Evans 20
    SF - Omri Casspi 22
    PF - Jason Thompson 24
    C - DeMarcus Cousins 20

    06 - Pooh Jeter 26
    07 - Donte Green 22
    08 - Antoine Wright 26
    09 - Carl landry 26
    10 - Samuel Dalembert 29

    11 - Ime Udoka 33
    12 - Hassan Whiteside 21



    Toronto Raptors

    Raps

    PG - Jarrett Jack 26
    SG - Demar Derozan 21
    SF - Leinus Kleiza 25 / Sonny Weems 24
    PF - Amir Johnson 23
    C - Andrea Bargnani 24

    06 - Jose Calderon 28
    07 - Leandro Barbosa 27
    08 - Julian Wright 23
    09 - Ed Davis 21
    10 - David Anderson 30

    11 - Reggie Evans 30
    12 - Marcus Banks 28
    Last edited by vinnie_paz; Wed Sep 1st, 2010 at 12:53 PM.

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    Well, a lot depends on how well Cousins plays. He's certainly got the talent to be the best rookie in the draft, but who knows. If he plays as well as he can, Sacramento most definitely has a better roster.

    I'm not as high on Evans as some. I think he's a ball dominating SG who probably doesn't look nearly as good on a more talented team. I liken him to Damon Stoudemire. When Stoudemire wasn't allowed to completely dominate the ball, his value decreased. Unfortunately, you're not going to win a whole lot of games with him dominating the ball like he did in Toronto. He simply didn't score efficiently enough and turned the ball over too much.

    Casspi is probably an underrated player who, if you put him on the Raptors squad, might be the best player right now. I don't think he's got as high a ceiling as guys like DeRozan, but he's certainly someone I can see starting on a contender.

    The combination of Jason Thompson and Carl Landry is a good defense-offense. Still, I'd rather have the Raptors PFs.

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    Uh, the Kings by a long shot. A seemingly legit franchise player in Evans, a probable star in Cousins, a potential defensive menace in Whiteside (once Dalembert is gone), gritty defender/shooter in Casspi, the ever so versatile Jason Thompson, and let's not forget the consistent Carl Landry. The team is built for the future, and it may even have some OKC-type momentum. A 40-win season wouldn't surprise me THAT much.

    All the Raps have is a hopeful star in DeRozan, a "reached my peak" Sonny Weems, a temporary point guard in Jack, a broken point guard in Jose, a potential duo of gritty defenders in Davis and Wright, a washed up Barbosa, and the overrated Amir Johnson.

    I don't know man. Talk to me in 2-3 years, when Jose's gone and we're 100% in the rebuilding mode.

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    Quote Introcollapse wrote: View Post
    Uh, the Kings by a long shot. A seemingly legit franchise player in Evans, a probable star in Cousins, a potential defensive menace in Whiteside (once Dalembert is gone), gritty defender/shooter in Casspi, the ever so versatile Jason Thompson, and let's not forget the consistent Carl Landry. The team is built for the future, and it may even have some OKC-type momentum. A 40-win season wouldn't surprise me THAT much.

    All the Raps have is a hopeful star in DeRozan, a "reached my peak" Sonny Weems, a temporary point guard in Jack, a broken point guard in Jose, a potential duo of gritty defenders in Davis and Wright, a washed up Barbosa, and the overrated Amir Johnson.

    I don't know man. Talk to me in 2-3 years, when Jose's gone and we're 100% in the rebuilding mode.
    donte green is nice too... he's 6'11 but has handles like a sg or sf... he can shoot and is only 22.

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    Ya, actually, I agree. The Kings, overall, do have a much better roster, whether or not Cousins plays up to his ability (having Dalembert and Whiteside behind him. The Raptors are much better at PG, about even at the PF position, but lose out everywhere else, including the bench. I wouldn't be shocked to see the Kings win 40, but I think somewhere around 35 is more likely. They're still too young.

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    Quote Tim W. wrote: View Post
    Ya, actually, I agree. The Kings, overall, do have a much better roster, whether or not Cousins plays up to his ability (having Dalembert and Whiteside behind him. The Raptors are much better at PG, about even at the PF position, but lose out everywhere else, including the bench. I wouldn't be shocked to see the Kings win 40, but I think somewhere around 35 is more likely. They're still too young.
    I think it has more to do with the conference that they are in, but if you merge the east and the west, and you take the top 16 as playoff seeds then you definitely have the kings in the mix, and that makes them way better than us.
    Remember they have Evans, a legitimate franchise player and future superstar in my opinion. If Cousins even slightly reaches his expectations this season and Dalembert fits in well this is a team that could possibly win 40 games, personally I'd be shocked if they do not improve and become the next " O.K. Thunder".

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    What happen to Sonny Weems?! It seems that some people already forgot about him for some reason.

    Sacramento already had 25 wins playing together under the same circumstances last season so they should already be stronger with Evans and Casspi second season and first year Demarcus Cousins should give them an immediate boast. For that reason I give a slight edge to Sacramento over the Raptors.

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    Udrih is lousy. Jack and Calderon aren't great, but surely not lousy. And with a lousy PG the Kings aren't going anywhere.

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    Kings by quite a bit. Thing is that they don't have a point guard, Tyreke usually brings the ball up but they need a legit PG if they ever want to win consistently. But overall their team is real good, very underrated starting line-up. Thompson is a legit 15 10 guy. Tyreke might have had a fluke year last year, but I think he can still put up those numbers (20-5-5). Casspi is a great defender and a very underrated shooter... Cousins could become one of the best offensive big men and one of the best rebounders in a few years, obviously it's up to him and how he "conducts" himself...

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    LOL, and Raptors fans overrate our players? What is this?

    Cousins hasn't played in 1 NBA game and he's gunna have a huge impact? Thompson and Caaspi havn't proven anything in my opinion. And Tyreke Evans was the only player on the team who could score and handle the ball. Obviously he has to put up some big numbers. And the rest of their roster? lol. The only player in their starting line-up i see with an advantage is Tyreke and we don't know how much DeRozan has improved, so I'm waiting to see that.

    If you'd watch the Kings you'd see how much flaws Tyreke has (turnovers are one example) and the team as a whole. No point guard, no consistent wing presence, and the center position in the hands of Cousins. A rookie playing 35 minutes a game isn't as great as you might think, especially at that position. And he already has been labeled immature if that means anything.

    Raptors > Kings

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    Quote Tim W. wrote: View Post
    I'm not as high on Evans as some. I think he's a ball dominating SG who probably doesn't look nearly as good on a more talented team. I liken him to Damon Stoudemire. When Stoudemire wasn't allowed to completely dominate the ball, his value decreased. Unfortunately, you're not going to win a whole lot of games with him dominating the ball like he did in Toronto. He simply didn't score efficiently enough and turned the ball over too much.
    +1. I've been looking for a good comparison for a while, damon works. Final judgement in a couple of years

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    Quote Hotshot wrote: View Post
    What happen to Sonny Weems?! It seems that some people already forgot about him for some reason.

    Sacramento already had 25 wins playing together under the same circumstances last season so they should already be stronger with Evans and Casspi second season and first year Demarcus Cousins should give them an immediate boast. For that reason I give a slight edge to Sacramento over the Raptors.
    oh shit you're right... how could i have forgotten sonny... thanks.

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    Quote Macc wrote: View Post
    LOL, and Raptors fans overrate our players? What is this?

    Cousins hasn't played in 1 NBA game and he's gunna have a huge impact? Thompson and Caaspi havn't proven anything in my opinion. And Tyreke Evans was the only player on the team who could score and handle the ball. Obviously he has to put up some big numbers. And the rest of their roster? lol. The only player in their starting line-up i see with an advantage is Tyreke and we don't know how much DeRozan has improved, so I'm waiting to see that.

    If you'd watch the Kings you'd see how much flaws Tyreke has (turnovers are one example) and the team as a whole. No point guard, no consistent wing presence, and the center position in the hands of Cousins. A rookie playing 35 minutes a game isn't as great as you might think, especially at that position. And he already has been labeled immature if that means anything.

    Raptors > Kings
    its not just for the next season... it's which roster is better long-term... and no wing presence ? and i dont you know anything about jason thompson.

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    As a Kings fan, I'll update this thread so it's a bit more accurate. lol

    Dalembert will be the starting center, at least at the start of the year. I'd venture to say Cousins (who will play some center) might play more power forward even. Jason Thompson plays much more effective at the center position, so, they'll all rotate with Landry being the primary PF. Really wouldn't shock me to see Cousins and Landry split the majority of minutes at PF and have Thompson back up Dalembert, with mixing and matching at the appropriate times.

    As for Evans, he's no Damon, IMO. Skill set wise, they're different players. Size/strength wise, it's two totally different things. I'm not sure how they're really all that comparable in general, other than both players stellar statistical rookie seasons. Seems like trying to compare an apple to an orange.

    As for Udrih, Doc will tell you have much I loathe the guy, but he was actually incredibly solid last season, as opposed to his 2009 campaign which was pure trash. The problem with Udrih is you never know which one you're going to get. Will you get the 2010/2008 version? Or will you get the 09 version? He says he was injured in 09, but, really...you can only pull your vagina so many times.

    Raps and Kings both have some nice young talent and lots of questions still to be answered, IMO.

    I love DD...think he's going to be a handful this year. Have a Kevin Martin like emergence. And if AB is used properly, he can be an extremely effective player. Barbosa should really be a nice addition too. I hated watching him butt-ram the Kings when he was with the Suns. The worst thing for the Raps is being stuck in the East which seems to get stronger by the day almost.

    Either way, both squads have some nice talent...and considering what the Raps went through, losing Bosh for nothing, they're not in an awful position which most teams would be (say, like, Cleveland?).

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    Quote Macc wrote: View Post
    LOL, and Raptors fans overrate our players? What is this?

    Cousins hasn't played in 1 NBA game and he's gunna have a huge impact? Thompson and Caaspi havn't proven anything in my opinion. And Tyreke Evans was the only player on the team who could score and handle the ball. Obviously he has to put up some big numbers. And the rest of their roster? lol. The only player in their starting line-up i see with an advantage is Tyreke and we don't know how much DeRozan has improved, so I'm waiting to see that.

    If you'd watch the Kings you'd see how much flaws Tyreke has (turnovers are one example) and the team as a whole. No point guard, no consistent wing presence, and the center position in the hands of Cousins. A rookie playing 35 minutes a game isn't as great as you might think, especially at that position. And he already has been labeled immature if that means anything.

    Raptors > Kings
    No, Cousins, Thompson and Casspi haven't proven anything. Of course neither have any of the Raptor players, so I'm not sure your point. You think Amir Johnson and Ed Davis have proven more than Jason Thompson and Carl Landry? Together, they averaged 30 ppg and 15 rpg. And even if Cousins doesn't play up to his abilities, they still have Dalembert, who has the ability (and has in the past) to average a double-double. The only Raptor small forward that has ever averaged double figures in scoring last season is Kleiza, and he didn't even play in the NBA last season. Casspi averaged 10.3 ppg and 4.5 rpg in just 25 mpg. At best, the Raptors and Kings are even at that position.

    The only position, including the bench, the Raptors have a clear advantage over the Kings at is PG. No one is saying they're a great team, but they certainly have more talent than the Raptors at the moment.

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    agree with most everyone else, kings by a country mile.

    and for all those shitting on their pg situation, you don't really need a playmaking pg when you have a ball-dominating sg like tyreke who can score and make plays. in fact, it might be a hindrance to the sg doing his thing. see: the portland trailblazers trying to get rid of andre miller for someone who shoots better and handles the ball less. or, the miami heat teams before they started collecting expiring contracts for this summer. they won a title with jason williams and a 52 year old gary payton, both over the hill and shells of their former selves.

    not saying tyreke is d-wade, but you get my point.

    i actually think beno would be fine for that team if he were a better defender, he's just overpaid.

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    Quote Eze wrote: View Post
    As for Evans, he's no Damon, IMO. Skill set wise, they're different players. Size/strength wise, it's two totally different things. I'm not sure how they're really all that comparable in general, other than both players stellar statistical rookie seasons. Seems like trying to compare an apple to an orange.
    You misunderstand the comparison. No one is comparing the two skill-wise. Obviously they are completely different players in that regard. Both players were drafted by bad teams and basically given the ball to do with what they please. There was little choice in the matter. Both players dominated the ball and put up great numbers, as a result. Both players need the ball in their hands and to be able to dominate the ball to be truly effective, but I don't see great team success with that. When Damon moved to Portland, he couldn't dominate the ball as much and struggled to adjust. He never looked as good as he did in Toronto because he's the type of player that needs to dominate the ball in order to be take full advantage of his skills, but simply isn't good enough to be able to dominate the ball on a contender. I see the same thing with Evans. With better players, I see Evans becoming less effective. He never really impressed me much in the games I watched, as he doesn't seem to have a clue how to run an offense, often passes only as a last resort, and while he's in the air, and doesn't have an outside shot to speak of. I see him as a poor man's Dwayne Wade, but Wade is much more athletic, is a much better passer and knows how to win, something I've yet to see from Evans.

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    I am interested to see how much time Whiteside will see, and how he will perform also. I think he has a skill set the Raptors could have used, although Davis probably brings a lot of the rebounding / shot blocking that Whiteside would have. I was hoping BC followed through when he said he might try to acquire a 2nd pick in the first round. It will be some time before Alabi is ready to compete in the NBA, I think Whiteside will be able to make more of an impact earlier in his career.

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    Quote Tim W. wrote: View Post
    You misunderstand the comparison. No one is comparing the two skill-wise. Obviously they are completely different players in that regard. Both players were drafted by bad teams and basically given the ball to do with what they please. There was little choice in the matter. Both players dominated the ball and put up great numbers, as a result. Both players need the ball in their hands and to be able to dominate the ball to be truly effective, but I don't see great team success with that. When Damon moved to Portland, he couldn't dominate the ball as much and struggled to adjust. He never looked as good as he did in Toronto because he's the type of player that needs to dominate the ball in order to be take full advantage of his skills, but simply isn't good enough to be able to dominate the ball on a contender. I see the same thing with Evans. With better players, I see Evans becoming less effective. He never really impressed me much in the games I watched, as he doesn't seem to have a clue how to run an offense, often passes only as a last resort, and while he's in the air, and doesn't have an outside shot to speak of. I see him as a poor man's Dwayne Wade, but Wade is much more athletic, is a much better passer and knows how to win, something I've yet to see from Evans.
    I'll just have to say I respectfully disagree with everything other than the jumper, lol, and even then, he's spent all off-season retooling it (Fanhouse did an article on it yesterday ironically) and had one of the best jumpers in all of High School basketball before going away from it at Memphis. He's a pretty special talent, IMO.

    I think some King fans tend to overhype him into the second coming, he's not that - but he's pretty special.

    And all that said...he's 20 years old. He's got some time to grow.
    Last edited by Eze; Wed Sep 1st, 2010 at 04:26 PM.

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    Tim, you are hating Evans a lil bit. The guy was what one of three player's in NBA history to average 20-5-5 as a rookie? The guy is a stone cold killer and while his defense wasn't exemplary last year, he has my bet to be all NBA defense for years upon years. He can get to the rim whenever he wants and seems to have the Kobe gene where he takes the team on his back and wills it to win. He has a lot of growing up to do and doesn't seem to make player's better as much he lets them play with him and while that needs to be improved, if the league got blown up and started over I would draft him in the top ten to start my franchise.

    The Kings are stacked for the future. They have tons of size and athleticism, guys who can play now and guys for the future. I would take thier young core over young every core in the league minus the Thunder. They need a pg who can play off the ball and spread the floor, but that's about it.

    I am fairly sold on the raptors young core and feel it is undervalued by the big guns at ESPN, but the Kings are a serious up and comer in the West and if Evans and Cousins can co-exist, it going to be scary.

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