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Thread: Why Is Canada's Men's Basketball Team So Bad?

  1. #21
    Raptors Republic Rookie Gusser's Avatar
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    Quote blaze89 wrote: View Post
    but to be honest with you ive never seen an ACTUAL legitimate basketball training center. so tell me, with so little exposure to basketball in this country how are they not going to lose to teams that are more talented? i remember teams like spain and greece are mostly always in it because theyve taken basketball seriously for a long time.
    Hamilton has a Regional Elite development squad...that replaced a National Development program. However, I get your point.
    It's a top down issue. The athletes are there, the interest is there. The structure and the administration may be lacking to take advantage of the players that we have.

  2. #22
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    I think Canada needs to find ways to develop a better basketball program. I've lived in Ottawa and Toronto and I know Canada as talent but they aren't scouted like our American neighbors. The NBA is more about entertainment than the actual game. International basketball like Olympics & FIBA is about the game and the game is all about winning. You need your best players to achieve this regardless of if the coach likes them personally or not. Politics dont belong in international basketball.

    I have made a list of current and pass players that have played for team Canada which is arguably more talented than any other team in the world except USA.

    Starting lineup: (PG) Steve Nash, (SG) Andy Rautins, (SF) Kelly Onylyk (PF) Joel Anthony, (C) Samuel Dalembert
    Bench: Jamal Magloire, Jermaine Anderson, Deham Brown, Carl English, Jaun Mendez, Jehvohn Shepherd, Levon Kendall

  3. #23
    Administrator Dr. James Naismith's Avatar
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    Quote golden wrote: View Post
    Canada's got some absolute young studs coming up the ranks: Cory Joseph, Tristan Thompson, Kris Joseph and a few others I can't remember right now. Many of them are projected NBA 1st or 2nd rounders in the next few years. I hope Leo is gone by then.
    I'm with you there.

    No doubt the future is bright with young studs like Joseph, Thompson and Myck Kabongo, but I think as long as Leo's at the helm it will deter some of these players from joining the men's program. I think now that the FIBA tournament is over for Canada, its time for another change. I'd love to see a guy like Carleton's Dave Smart take over the reigns as head coach. He has experience as an assistant with the program, its time to award him for the amazing job he's done in Ottawa in the CIS over this last decade.

  4. #24
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    A lot of Canadian kids dream about growing up to become hockey players. Not so much basketball players. Specially outside of perhaps Ontario and BC. Why? Because their dads played hockey and want nothing to do with basketball. And so did their dad's dads. Also, it's all they can ever watch on TV. On all sports channels. All games. All highlights. It's all they're ever exposed to since childhood.

    Just look at the Raps' TV schedule on that other thread and see what the media thinks basketball means to Canadians. The NBA is an American league, and I guess having just 1 team in that league isn't enough to pique the interest of the country. "There aren't that many audiences anyways, so let's push the Raps to some specialty channel only available to few people. We can show more hockey on the main channel that way. Or poker. Or maybe even horse-racing," is probably what they're thinking.

    Another reason is the lack of a quality development program that some have mentioned. But again, that stems from the schools not having enough of a care to pay for basketball development, when there's hockey or football instead.

  5. #25
    Administrator Dr. James Naismith's Avatar
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    Quote jlongs wrote: View Post
    Another reason is the lack of a quality development program that some have mentioned. But again, that stems from the schools not having enough of a care to pay for basketball development, when there's hockey or football instead.
    So sad, yet so true.

    I'm not sure if these schools exist yet in and around the GTA, but out West just outside of Calgary they are now building a highschool that just to caters only to hockey players. Both boys & girls. Apparently outside of your regular classes and 4 hours of daily ice time, they also teach these kids what they can expect after highschool as some potentially go on to be professionals.

    How crazy is that?

    Apparently

  6. #26
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    Quote CrissKali wrote: View Post
    I think Canada needs to find ways to develop a better basketball program. I've lived in Ottawa and Toronto and I know Canada as talent but they aren't scouted like our American neighbors. The NBA is more about entertainment than the actual game. International basketball like Olympics & FIBA is about the game and the game is all about winning. You need your best players to achieve this regardless of if the coach likes them personally or not. Politics dont belong in international basketball.

    I have made a list of current and pass players that have played for team Canada which is arguably more talented than any other team in the world except USA.

    Starting lineup: (PG) Steve Nash, (SG) Andy Rautins, (SF) Kelly Onylyk (PF) Joel Anthony, (C) Samuel Dalembert
    Bench: Jamal Magloire, Jermaine Anderson, Deham Brown, Carl English, Jaun Mendez, Jehvohn Shepherd, Levon Kendall
    No offense, but that Canadian squad is not even close to what a few of the other top countries could put together if they had their best players available.

    Spain is obvious, France could field Parker + Pietrus + Batum + Diaw + Noah with Turiaf off the bench for example. Brazil would be another nasty squad at full strength, I'm sure there are others but I'm not all that up on international rosters. Canada isn't the only nation lacking it's best players.

    You do make a good point about the importance of playing the team game vs the entertainment game though, and in a tournament format depth is crucial. The Americans in particular take advantage of this fact, playing pressure D for 40 minutes and getting plenty of the easy baskets that allow them to survive despite their spotty offense. The worlds are a lot like the NBA playoffs in that teams that can consistently play good defense, control tempo and take advantage of mismatches to score easy buckets will often prevail. Canada can play decent D and control tempo but they lack to talent to take advantage of mismatches and consistently generate high percentage looks.

  7. #27
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    Lark, I completely agree, that Canadian dream team is still pretty poor compared to other rosters.

    I've said this in another thread, but just wait. Over the next 5-10 years, Canada is gonna show the world some serious players. The NBA came to Canada in the 1995, and this whole generation of kids that have grown up watching the game are coming up. I really think we're gonna start seeing the impact that having the Toronto Raptors in town is going to have on the national team. The kids just entering University and also in prep schools in the states right now are legitimate NBA prospects.

  8. #28
    Raptors Republic Rookie pistol pete's Avatar
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    the quality level isn't high, and this is not Rautins fault, but they didn't play at their collective best, and this is Rautins fault. For the new generation, Triano might be a good choice

  9. #29
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    Development and basketball programs seems to be the biggest problem for Canada in my opinion.

    In Greece for instance the pro league is called A1. As a young baller you work yourself up from say the C or D league. The better and older you get, the higher you climb in teams and leagues until you reach A1 professional status. Those C or D league teams have full-time coaches, arenas/gyms, and staff to develop their players which is all funded by sponsors and the local government. It works very much the same way soccer works in England for instance.
    The overall program in Greece, Spain, Lithuania, Serbia, etc are so much more developed than Canada's.

  10. #30
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    Quote Doc Naismith wrote: View Post
    I'm with you there.

    No doubt the future is bright with young studs like Joseph, Thompson and Myck Kabongo, but I think as long as Leo's at the helm it will deter some of these players from joining the men's program. I think now that the FIBA tournament is over for Canada, its time for another change. I'd love to see a guy like Carleton's Dave Smart take over the reigns as head coach. He has experience as an assistant with the program, its time to award him for the amazing job he's done in Ottawa in the CIS over this last decade.
    Interesting idea. A lot of the young CDN players are already in the junior national programs - is Dave Smart already coaching them? If there is familiarity and respect, then that's a plus.

    Otherwise, assuming that in a few years time Leo is gone, then the program will need to pick up the pieces and restore credibility. So at that point they will probably need a boost of credibility by adding a "name" coach with NBA and international track record. There's really only one Canadian guy who fits the bill - Jay Triano, who should be out of work as an NBA head coach and/or working somewhere in the NBA as an assistant. A bonus is that Jay might be able to entice Nash for one last hurrah to mentor the youngsters.

    Another option is to look at hiring an non-Canadian international coach, with a track record of success, just like they do in soccer. For example, I believe that David Blatt (who is an Israeli-America) coached the Russian national team to the Eurobasket championship.

  11. #31
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    Quote SirChillyMost wrote: View Post
    Exactly.lol

    I didn't like how he handled the whole Dalembert situation. But Canada has some very prominent HS talent in the US plus Bonner should be available in the future. Triano should be the Team Canada head coach not the Raptor's head coach in my opinion.
    +1.

    Leo handled the whole Dalembert fiasco so poorly. To top it all off, he's not a good coach. Just because you can do colour on a broadcast shouldn't equate to the fact that you can coach.

    With the contingent of Canadian kids at US prep schools, and from the sounds of it, the kids actually want to play for Canada, I think the future of Canada basketball is bright, provided that Rautins is fired in favour of a real coach. I'd like to see Dave Smart from Carleton University be given the reigns of the team.

  12. #32
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    Quote Doc Naismith wrote: View Post
    So sad, yet so true.

    I'm not sure if these schools exist yet in and around the GTA, but out West just outside of Calgary they are now building a highschool that just to caters only to hockey players. Both boys & girls. Apparently outside of your regular classes and 4 hours of daily ice time, they also teach these kids what they can expect after highschool as some potentially go on to be professionals.

    How crazy is that?

    Apparently
    We have that in Toronto, Doc. It's called Upper Canada College and St. Michael's College school. All they do is pump out hockey players.

  13. #33
    Administrator Dr. James Naismith's Avatar
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    Quote MangoKid wrote: View Post
    We have that in Toronto, Doc. It's called Upper Canada College and St. Michael's College school. All they do is pump out hockey players.
    Isn't St. Mike's the school you and fancylad went too?

    Anyhow, but this school outside of Calgary is only for hockey players. Is that the same with St. Mike's and Upper Canada?

  14. #34
    Super Moderator MangoKid's Avatar
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    Quote Doc Naismith wrote: View Post
    Isn't St. Mike's the school you and fancylad went too?

    Anyhow, but this school outside of Calgary is only for hockey players. Is that the same with St. Mike's and Upper Canada?
    That's the exact same school. Our coaches would recruit guys to come play for us. And they'd get a partial scholarship (which was against the rules). And it wasn't just hockey. It was basketball and football too. I remember we'd get guys from all over the country every year.

    St. Mike's and UCC just seem to pump out more hockey players than anything - there are still quite a number of guys who went to St. Mike's that play in the NHL. I didn't play hockey. Hell, I can't even skate. But hockey players, especially the star ones, the teachers turn a blind eye to if they don't complete a homework assignment.

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    Raptors Republic Rookie Afro_Daddy's Avatar
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    bcuz our stars (nash, dalembert) dont play + Leo rautins = 0-5. im sure if we had at least one of those guys playing we would have one at least one game. this may be a stupid Q, but y does triano help out the US team, instead of coach canadas?

  16. #36
    Super Moderator MangoKid's Avatar
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    Because basketball Canada fired Triano in favour of Rautins.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star ezz_bee's Avatar
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    Got my undergrad @ carleton and watched a lot of ravens games. They were/are the most consistant team I've ever seen. They played the exact same way regardless if they were down 5 or up 25. The most focus i've seen by any team at any level. Dave Smart accomplished something here that will not be duplicated by anyone for a long long time. Not sure if he could handle NBA personalities but can't imagine a better candidate to replace Leo.
    "They're going to have to rename the whole conference after us: Toronto Raptors 2014-2015 Northern Conference Champions" ~ ezzbee

    "We only have one rule on this team. What is that rule? E.L.E. That's right's, E.L.E, and what does E.L.E. stand for? EVERYBODY LOVE EVERYBODY. Right there up on the wall, because this isn't just a basketball team, this is a lifestyle. ~ Jackie Moon

  18. #38
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    Quote ezz_bee wrote: View Post
    Got my undergrad @ carleton and watched a lot of ravens games. They were/are the most consistant team I've ever seen. They played the exact same way regardless if they were down 5 or up 25. The most focus i've seen by any team at any level. Dave Smart accomplished something here that will not be duplicated by anyone for a long long time. Not sure if he could handle NBA personalities but can't imagine a better candidate to replace Leo.
    I didn't know much about Dave Smart before his name was mentioned by a bunch of posters. Thanks, guys. Reading this article below, not sure if his tactics will translate well to NBA players, although I love his basic philosophy, i.e., practice competing and winning until it becomes a habit.

    http://www.canada.com/ottawacitizen/...5-01c3513848d1

    Keep in mind that the new crop of CDN youngsters are projected as NBAers, so handling those personalities would be key. It's not trivial, seeing as Leo himself was an NBAer and has been around NBA players for ages, but still couldn't see eye to eye with Sam Dalembert for example. Not sure whose fault that was, but just reinforces that it's a big issue.

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