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Thread: NBA.com Summer Report Card

  1. #21
    Raptors Republic Veteran LBF's Avatar
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    Quote your mom wrote: View Post
    Well said. Totally agreed with on my part.
    hi mom!
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    Raptors Republic Rookie Paradigm Shift's Avatar
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    Quote Buddahfan wrote: View Post
    I have already proven that if Johnson plays at just the same level in 10-11 that he did in 09-10 that for 10-11 the Raptors will not be overpaying him....
    BC overpaid Amir simply because, Amir would have taken less. Amir, himself, said he was surprised by the offer. So even if he transforms himself into the second coming of Karl Malone and starts in the All Star game, BC overpaid him.

    One of a GM's prime responsibilities is to know the market, know the players and to spend as little as possible against the cap to sign them.

    So all the statistics in the world may show Amir is worth more than he got but they don't change the fact that BC paid him more than he had to.

  3. #23
    Raptors Republic Veteran Buddahfan's Avatar
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    Quote Paradigm Shift wrote: View Post
    BC overpaid Amir simply because, Amir would have taken less. Amir, himself, said he was surprised by the offer. So even if he transforms himself into the second coming of Karl Malone and starts in the All Star game, BC overpaid him.

    One of a GM's prime responsibilities is to know the market, know the players and to spend as little as possible against the cap to sign them.

    So all the statistics in the world may show Amir is worth more than he got but they don't change the fact that BC paid him more than he had to.
    Can you bring a link to a story or a video or audio interview with Amir or his agent that backs up what you are saying?


    If not it seems to me that you can read Amir's mind and facial expressions.

    That is one heck of a ability that you have

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  4. #24
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    Quote Buddahfan wrote: View Post
    Can you bring a link to a story or a video or audio interview with Amir or his agent that backs up what you are saying?


    If not it seems to me that you can read Amir's mind and facial expressions.

    That is one heck of a ability that you have

    Congratulations
    Link to one of the most awkward news conference answers ever!! Amir saying he was looking for 25-30's. Just watch Colangelo and Triano squirm. It happens at the 3:50 mark of the news conference video.

    edit - Just realized the link goes to all the raptors TV videos. The video i am referring to is on page 5 of that link, and it is the Amir News Conference. If someone can embed the video in the thread that would be great.

    PS - not an Amir hater and I do think he will have a good year, however, I agree that even Amir thinks they exceeded his expectations.
    Last edited by BC Boy; Tue Sep 7th, 2010 at 10:46 PM.

  5. #25
    Raptors Republic Rookie Paradigm Shift's Avatar
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    Hey BC Boy!

    Way to demystify my ability to read minds!

    Buddahfan,

    I was explicit that I was not talking about Amir's worth. I don't think it is out of the question that he will earn his money. I hope to hell he does.... but nothing that happens in the future will change the fact that he was overpaid this summer.......because he could have been signed by Toronto for less $.
    Last edited by Paradigm Shift; Tue Sep 7th, 2010 at 11:31 PM.

  6. #26
    Raptors Republic Veteran Buddahfan's Avatar
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    Quote BC Boy wrote: View Post
    Link to one of the most awkward news conference answers ever!! Amir saying he was looking for 25-30's. Just watch Colangelo and Triano squirm. It happens at the 3:50 mark of the news conference video.

    edit - Just realized the link goes to all the raptors TV videos. The video i am referring to is on page 5 of that link, and it is the Amir News Conference. If someone can embed the video in the thread that would be great.

    PS - not an Amir hater and I do think he will have a good year, however, I agree that even Amir thinks they exceeded his expectations.
    This is old news. All he says is that he was looking at about $25 million which is about what I was looking at. The guaranteed amount is for $30 million.

    Now there are several possibilities here with regard to why he said that.

    1. He could truly have been offered more per season than he thought he would get offered. This could have been for a number of reasons which are unknown.


    2. He could have been expecting a contract for only four years and was looking at it the same way that I was at the time; i.e., $25 million for 4 years. So BC gave him an extra year which he didn't expect. I even posted that at the time. Considering that Amir will be only 27 in the fifth year, signing him for five years rather than four is not overpaying him.


    3. It could be that he was just being in character at that press conference. He has always said the right things in public about other players and management. We all know it is nice and makes everyone happy when an employee says in public that he/she got a bigger raise then they were expecting, Especially when it is at a press conference that you are asked the question. This is even more true when the person who gave you a raise is in the room with you.

    So he may just have been gracious and a bit self-effacing which is totally in keeping with the public persona he has exhibited since he has been in the NBA.


    4. It could be that he just wanted to return to Toronto and that in his last communication with his agent before he got the news of the offer, his agent was playing the old game of: They are only offering $25, but I will see what I can do for you" When in fact the Raptors may have offered $34 million to begin with. This way his agent can go off and come back with the higher offer to make himself look good and make the player happy because he got more than he thought he was going to get based upon his last communication with his agent.

    Bottom line is that we will never know which of those scenarios is true.
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  7. #27
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    Quote Buddahfan wrote: View Post
    This is old news. All he says is that he was looking at about $25 million which is about what I was looking at. The guaranteed amount is for $30 million.

    Now there are several possibilities here with regard to why he said that.

    1. He could truly have been offered more per season than he thought he would get offered. This could have been for a number of reasons which are unknown.


    2. He could have been expecting a contract for only four years and was looking at it the same way that I was at the time; i.e., $25 million for 4 years. So BC gave him an extra year which he didn't expect. I even posted that at the time. Considering that Amir will be only 27 in the fifth year, signing him for five years rather than four is not overpaying him.


    3. It could be that he was just being in character at that press conference. He has always said the right things in public about other players and management. We all know it is nice and makes everyone happy when an employee says in public that he/she got a bigger raise then they were expecting, Especially when it is at a press conference that you are asked the question. This is even more true when the person who gave you a raise is in the room with you.

    So he may just have been gracious and a bit self-effacing which is totally in keeping with the public persona he has exhibited since he has been in the NBA.


    4. It could be that he just wanted to return to Toronto and that in his last communication with his agent before he got the news of the offer, his agent was playing the old game of: They are only offering $25, but I will see what I can do for you" When in fact the Raptors may have offered $34 million to begin with. This way his agent can go off and come back with the higher offer to make himself look good and make the player happy because he got more than he thought he was going to get based upon his last communication with his agent.

    Bottom line is that we will never know which of those scenarios is true.
    All I know is that Amir looks like a kid that just got a bigger allowance than he expected (a mix of emotions between shock and humility from the contract... which is endearing) and Colangelo looks like a parent that realized he just got hosed!! You're right about the fact that I am reading into facial expressions and body language, but I cannot help feeling awkward every time I watch it.

  8. #28
    Raptors Republic Veteran Buddahfan's Avatar
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    Quote BC Boy wrote: View Post
    All I know is that Amir looks like a kid that just got a bigger allowance than he expected (a mix of emotions between shock and humility from the contract... which is endearing) and Colangelo looks like a parent that realized he just got hosed!! You're right about the fact that I am reading into facial expressions and body language, but I cannot help feeling awkward every time I watch it.
    Interesting comment about a personal feeling

    It seems to me that Amir wanted to stay with the Raptors more than he wanted the money. I can think of a number of reasons that he would want to stay with the Raptors.

    He was grinning the whole time. I think he was relieved and happy to have gotten what he primarily wanted, which was to stay with the Raptors.

    Reasons why I know Amir would have wanted to stay with the Raptors having nothing to do with money.

    1. He is a loyal person. He stated so much in resigning with the Pistons three years ago even though the word was the Spurs had offered him more money. He said at the time that one of the main reasons that he resigned with the Pistons was because they were the team that first drafted him out of high school, which is those days was a big deal if you didn't want to go to college, since Europe was not considered an alternative to college in those days.

    2. He is tight with DeRozan. They pal around a lot in Los Angeles and play hoops together at places like the HAX in the summer.

    3. He got in my opinion some very good coaching from the Raptors last season especially from English who was able to be a big help and factor in Amir's developing offensive game.

    4. He probably knew that Bosh was going to leave so he knew he would have a great opportunity in Toronto. I am sure that it was discussed during the contract negotiations

    5. The Raptors have a young team with a more than a handful being very young and athletic like himself

    6. He likes the city. Why not.

    From what I have learned about him over the years is that he is not a big ego head and more self-effacing so the money part of the contract is not as important to him as it is to a lot of players.

    So he could have been willing to stay for less money because of those factors. Therefore one could say that BC may have paid Amir more than he had to. However, based upon what I have seen of his play and yes the stats I think that his 2010-11 salary at about $750,000 below the league average is a fair salary for 10-11 even if he doesn't improve in 10-11.

    Of course he doesn't improve over the next five seasons than it could be that he will become overpaid.

    We shall see
    Last edited by Buddahfan; Wed Sep 8th, 2010 at 12:22 AM.
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  9. #29
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    @tim w.:

    @bhuddafan: They simply should have paid him less. A player, who has averaged 17 minutes last year demands 25 Million. Guaranteed? Maybe during the next season i have to admit that i was wrong, but only if he has a breakout year. Just from what has happended until today, the raptors overpaid him heavily.

  10. #30
    Raptors Republic Rookie pistol pete's Avatar
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    Quote jjiio wrote: View Post
    @tim w.:

    @bhuddafan: They simply should have paid him less. A player, who has averaged 17 minutes last year demands 25 Million. Guaranteed? Maybe during the next season i have to admit that i was wrong, but only if he has a breakout year. Just from what has happended until today, the raptors overpaid him heavily.
    If ever Amir has been 5 millions overpaid, having traded Hedo for Barbosa and acquired Kleiza combine for a summer which deserves much more than D

  11. #31
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    Maybe, but that's not, what i'm talking about. I liked how the Raptors bounced back after losing Bosh. Kleiza, Davis, Barbosa and Johnson are(or hopefully will be) solid players so to me the frontoffice did pretty well, except the amount of money they are paying to Amir. I don't care how any network, analyst or website is rating the players or graduating the offseason of Toronto, i want to see this team play.

  12. #32
    Raptors Republic Rookie pistol pete's Avatar
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    Quote jjiio wrote: View Post
    Maybe, but that's not, what i'm talking about. I liked how the Raptors bounced back after losing Bosh. Kleiza, Davis, Barbosa and Johnson are(or hopefully will be) solid players so to me the frontoffice did pretty well, except the amount of money they are paying to Amir. I don't care how any network, analyst or website is rating the players or graduating the offseason of Toronto, i want to see this team play.
    I got it wrong, then. My fault. Then, about "I don't care how any network, analyst or website is rating the players or graduating the offseason of Toronto, i want to see this team play": I totally agree with you.

  13. #33
    Raptors Republic Rookie YKR23's Avatar
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    nba.com felt bad and didnt wanna give us anything lower than a passing grade, therefore the D lol. we really deserve an F-

  14. #34
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    Quote pistol pete wrote: View Post
    I got it wrong, then. My fault. Then, about "I don't care how any network, analyst or website is rating the players or graduating the offseason of Toronto, i want to see this team play": I totally agree with you.
    I agree the D is bullshit.
    We lost Bosh ( aka RuPaul), Turk ( aka Turdinator), Rasho ( nice guy too old and slow), POB ( shite).
    Kleiza, Barbosa and Davis are all good players who will contribute, while only RuPaul contributed last year. The new three are better than the old three.
    Amir will get a chance for more regular play, and with Bargs, Kleiza, Davis, Anderson will form a better front line rotation than we had last year.
    Definitely a C+

  15. #35
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    Default Going nowhere with Bosh

    Repeat after me. (until it sinks in deep) The Raps were going NOWHERE with Bosh! NOWHERE!!! They may or may not make the playoffs next year. At least there's a question mark hanging over their future. (immediate and long-term) With Bosh, we knew exactly where they were going: NOWHERE!

  16. #36
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    Getting rid of Turk and Bosh, at the very least, allowed this team the opportunity to start in a direction that might lead to winning. If we kept either we'd be in perpetual purgatory.

  17. #37
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    I give management a C.

  18. #38
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    Bosh left because he obviously was never going to be a real number 1 and would rather be a number 3, we in turn received our first round pick back and the TPE. That was a lot more than Cleveland received for Lebron's departure. Hedouche was a cancer and now we have a former 6th man of the year. Davis was a steal at 13 and will prove that this season. Kleiza is coming off a great FIBA tourney experience so he'll be better with the Raps than he was with Denver. Finally, BC is still working hard to trade Calderon possibly with Evans and/or possibly with some picks while using the TPE all for an impact player.
    At the very least, we get a C+ with the strong possiblity of moving to a B- if BC can complete the last part of my statement.

  19. #39
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    Default Wrong Question

    The whole rating a team on what they did in the summer is full of errors. We can not judge until we see what comes of the new CBA, the TPE, and the draft picks. Losing Bosh will hurt big time in the short term. He was far and away the most competitive player on the team: an almost unguardable forward. However, the moves BC made around this were great and lay a nice carpet for building as long as he shows some patience. I hope they give the kids pt and finish with a high pick.

  20. #40
    Raptors Republic Rookie your mom's Avatar
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    I don't know whats harder, a 100 pound brick of concrete or Buddahfan when he thinks about amir johnson.

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