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Thread: History review: 2006-07 Offseason Power Rankings

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    Default History review: 2006-07 Offseason Power Rankings

    In the start of the season, ESPN ranked the Raps as #24 out of 30 teams
    but by the end of the season, we were ranked #6
    http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/teams/...=2&season=2007

    nba.com ranked us #25 but we ended at the top of our division
    http://www.nba.com/features/power_rankings.html

    Does the 2010-11 Raptors have what it takes to surprise again?

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    No. No they do not.

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    Quote Jaworski wrote: View Post
    In the start of the season, ESPN ranked the Raps as #24 out of 30 teams
    but by the end of the season, we were ranked #6
    http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/teams/...=2&season=2007

    nba.com ranked us #25 but we ended at the top of our division
    http://www.nba.com/features/power_rankings.html

    Does the 2010-11 Raptors have what it takes to surprise again?
    Not a chance. The Raptors don't have the same make up now. Back then they had two really strong leaders, who were strong defenders and consistent on offense. Those two guys were Anthony Parker and Jorge Garbajosa. Right now, I don't see that present in anyone. Jack may be a good leader but he showed some character flaws last season that he can't bring to the table this season if he wants to be a good leader. Even if he brings his best to the table I'm skeptical if he's the guy who can bring this group together. You can take a history lesson of years prior to 2006-07 where the team got a crap power ranking and then went on to prove the critics correct. There are more cases of that.

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    They will surprise the analysts who expect them to be in dead last in the league but on paper, this is a 25 win team as currently constructed. It's a good thing that a) BC isn't done building this team (no way he let's that trade exception go to waste) and b) that NBA games aren't played on paper.

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    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    NBA games aren't played on Twitter either.

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    Raptors Republic Veteran Buddahfan's Avatar
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    Quote EverythingBlaxx wrote: View Post
    They will surprise the analysts who expect them to be in dead last in the league but on paper, this is a 25 win team as currently constructed. It's a good thing that a) BC isn't done building this team (no way he let's that trade exception go to waste) and b) that NBA games aren't played on paper.
    So you are saying that Bosh was worth about 20 non-replaceable wins last season?

    40 2009-10 win total
    5 add in five for Turks negative effect on the team that will not longer be present
    --------
    45 Total est wins in 09-10 if the Raptors had had Kleiza and not Turk
    25 Your win total
    ---------
    20 - win decline.
    ============

    Bosh's value to the 09-10 Raptors = 20 non-replaceable wins.

    So Bosh was worth half of the Raptors wins in 09-10. Yea sure he was.

    I think that you have a big hole in your screen door.
    Last edited by Buddahfan; Fri Sep 17th, 2010 at 02:13 PM.
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    Jack has already brought this group together (outside of the International players)- who do you think organized the fellas in TO before training camp & was in Vegas this summer working out with the team- Jose? Bargnani? No way, it was/is Jack.

    Any team with Bargnani as the Franchise player isn't going to win much more than 25 games in the NBA plus that 2006 Raptor roster was much more basketball experienced from top to bottom. Plus that team had a competitive coach (Sam) whom held players accountable & they played solid defense as well.

    Too bad BC watched as Boston made all the real moves after the 2006-07 season that have left them atop the Division ever since, challenging for another NBA title in 2010 while TO is waiting to watch were the 2011 Lottery balls fall.

    Toronto-as is, will be one of the worst teams (Cleveland, Minnesota, TO) in the entire NBA record wise.
    Last edited by SirChillyMost; Fri Sep 17th, 2010 at 02:38 PM.

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    Ed Davis will play the role of Bargnani ... strong rookie campaign, in conversation for ROY.

    Kleiza will play the role of Garbajosa, the gritty big SF who plays tons of key minutes and contributes in many ways.

    Anthony Parker was actually a disappointment for me ... I thought he'd take on the #2 scoring role on the wing after his great European career ... Barbosa will be our big scoring SG addition.

    Rasho came in to play steady, unspectacular minutes at the C spot - much like we hope to see from Amir.

    Bargnani will have to grow into the CB4 role, of main offensive threat and all-star ... it's possible.

    Fred Jones was another big disappointment that year - look to Sonny to be the explosive improvement there.

    Jamario was the next season but - GASP - Ronald Dupree's here. Although we don't have the crazy void we used to at SF/SG.

    Looking at wings, i'd say today's version of DeMar, Kleiza, Barbosa, Sonny ... is better than the division winning Parker, Jones, Graham, Garbajosa ... arguably ...
    The only way to bag a classy lady is to give her two tickets to the gun show... and see if she likes the goods.

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    Quote SirChillyMost wrote: View Post
    Jack has already brought this group together (outside of the International players)- who do you think organized the fellas in TO before training camp & was in Vegas this summer working out with the team- Jose? Bargnani? No way, it was/is Jack.

    Any team with Bargnani as the Franchise player isn't going to win much more than 25 games in the NBA plus that 2006 Raptor roster was much more basketball experienced from top to bottom. Plus that team had a competitive coach (Sam) whom held players accountable & they played solid defense as well.

    Too bad BC watched as Boston made all the real moves after the 2006-07 season that have left them atop the Division ever since, challenging for another NBA title in 2010 while TO is waiting to watch were the 2011 Lottery balls fall.

    Toronto-as is, will be one of the worst teams (Cleveland, Minnesota, TO) in the entire NBA record wise.
    seriously man, you should just do a cut and paste coz you say the same crap every single time
    here, cut and paste this because this is pretty much the gyst off ALL your posts

    bargnani sucks
    bc sucks
    raptors suck

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    I think they will be quite a bit better than most are predicting. I don't see them finishing ahead of the Celtics for the division but battling for the eighth spot at around 500 is a very good possibility.

    In terms of player importance during 06-07 season I think Kleiza and Ed Davis are both guys who bring a lot of the same element that Garbo brought. Actually I think the biggest issue this team will have is a lack or wing players who can shoot well. Unless DeRozen and Weems have improved vastly from distance the only wing we have who can spot up from three is kleiza and I don't think that's the role they want for him. The 06-07 team had Parker and a superior version or Jason Kapono knocking down threes.
    "When Life gives you lemons, you clone those Lemons to make super lemons!"
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    Quote tbihis wrote: View Post
    seriously man, you should just do a cut and paste coz you say the same crap every single time
    here, cut and paste this because this is pretty much the gyst off ALL your posts

    bargnani sucks
    bc sucks
    raptors suck


    'Nuff said.......

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    Bargnani isn't a franchise player - no doubt about that. He is a good second option (with solid defensive players around him) and an unbelievable third option.

    This goes along with what my thinking of the Raptors is as currently constructed (which I have repeated numerous times):

    The Raptors have great role players and bench. They do not have elite NBA quality starters at this point.

    Hopefully a high draft pick (Perry Jones? Kyle Irving? Harrison Barnes?), a trade involving the TPE, a trade involving some expiring contracts, and a solid free agent signing will make the Raptors serious competitors in 1-2 seasons.

    Time will tell. Hopefully BC didn't use his three wishes in Phoenix and in 2006-2007.

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    Raptors Republic Veteran Buddahfan's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    Bargnani isn't a franchise player - no doubt about that. He is a good second option (with solid defensive players around him) and an unbelievable third option.

    This goes along with what my thinking of the Raptors is as currently constructed (which I have repeated numerous times):

    The Raptors have great role players and bench. They do not have elite NBA quality starters at this point.

    Hopefully a high draft pick (Perry Jones? Kyle Irving? Harrison Barnes?), a trade involving the TPE, a trade involving some expiring contracts, and a solid free agent signing will make the Raptors serious competitors in 1-2 seasons.

    Time will tell. Hopefully BC didn't use his three wishes in Phoenix and in 2006-2007.
    The thing about saying that someone is not a legit starter is that it almost begs the question.

    The reason is because the argument goes that so and so is not a legit starter on a playoff quality team.

    So my question is how many players with as few career NBA minutes as DeRozan and Amir have are starters on NBA playoff teams?

    Amir, Kleiza and DeRozan along with Bargs and maybe even Jack could start on other selective lottery teams depending on the needs on those teams.
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    Grammar, please.
    It's about money

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    Quote Buddahfan wrote: View Post
    The thing about saying that someone is not a legit starter is that it almost begs the question.

    The reason is because the argument goes that so and so is not a legit starter on a playoff quality team.

    So my question is how many players with as few career NBA minutes as DeRozan and Amir have are starters on NBA playoff teams?

    Amir, Kleiza and DeRozan along with Bargs and maybe even Jack could start on other selective lottery teams depending on the needs on those teams.
    I don't know about the minutes question and, no offense, have little desire to check it out. But off the top of my head:

    1) Rondo and Perkins the year the C's won the championship but they bought Rondo from Phoenix and traded all young assets and #5 in Jeff Green for Allen and Garnett to go along with Pierce (needless to say this is an exception to the rule)
    2) Courtney Lee with Orlando 2 years ago but look at who he started with
    3) Beasley in Miami but the Raps don't have a Wade to carry the entire team - and Bosh is not in the same league as Wade
    4) Jennings in Milwaukee
    5) Sam Cassell back in the '94
    6) Carmelo's rookie season

    Basically to answer your question - it is rare.

    However, the follow up comment is exactly what I'm talking about. The guys the Raptors have starting could start on almost any other lottery team. As a Raptor fan, this isn't good enough for me. Instead of a lineup like this:

    PG - Jack/Calderon/Banks
    SG - DD/Barbosa/Weems
    SF - Kleiza/Wright/Dupree
    PF - Johnson/Davis/Evans/Dorsey
    C - Bargs/Anderson/Alabi

    I would like to see a line up like this:

    PG - Kyle Irving/Jack
    SG - DD/Barbosa/Weems
    SF - Jeff Green/Kleiza/Wright
    PF - Bargs/Davis/Dorsey
    C - Marc Gasol/Johnson/Alabi

    Does that make sense? The guys we have are great bench and role players. The guys in italics (who I thought of off the top of my head) are the kind of players we need to really compete which we don't have.

    Hopefully a high draft pick, TPE, and cap space can combine to create a lineup with the talent we already have and the options available in the draft, free agency, and trade market.

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    Raptors Republic Veteran Buddahfan's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    I don't know about the minutes question and, no offense, have little desire to check it out. But off the top of my head:

    1) Rondo and Perkins the year the C's won the championship but they bought Rondo from Phoenix and traded all young assets and #5 in Jeff Green for Allen and Garnett to go along with Pierce (needless to say this is an exception to the rule)
    2) Courtney Lee with Orlando 2 years ago but look at who he started with
    3) Beasley in Miami but the Raps don't have a Wade to carry the entire team - and Bosh is not in the same league as Wade
    4) Jennings in Milwaukee
    5) Sam Cassell back in the '94
    6) Carmelo's rookie season

    Basically to answer your question - it is rare.

    However, the follow up comment is exactly what I'm talking about. The guys the Raptors have starting could start on almost any other lottery team. As a Raptor fan, this isn't good enough for me. Instead of a lineup like this:

    PG - Jack/Calderon/Banks
    SG - DD/Barbosa/Weems
    SF - Kleiza/Wright/Dupree
    PF - Johnson/Davis/Evans/Dorsey
    C - Bargs/Anderson/Alabi

    I would like to see a line up like this:

    PG - Kyle Irving/Jack
    SG - DD/Barbosa/Weems
    SF - Jeff Green/Kleiza/Wright
    PF - Bargs/Davis/Dorsey
    C - Marc Gasol/Johnson/Alabi

    Does that make sense? The guys we have are great bench and role players. The guys in italics (who I thought of off the top of my head) are the kind of players we need to really compete which we don't have.

    Hopefully a high draft pick, TPE, and cap space can combine to create a lineup with the talent we already have and the options available in the draft, free agency, and trade market.
    1. Rondo and Perkins were picked and not better players at the time because the Celtics were over the luxury level and the owners did not want to spend any more money then they thought they needed to., The thinking was the big three were so good that any two players will do to make five unless as the last two don't cost too much. So Rondo and Perkins just happened to be in the right place in the right time.

    2. Lee got the minutes because he had a skill that met an Orlando need in their offense. Lee can shoot three's In his rookie season he took over 200 of them and made over 40% of them. The Magic eventually got rid of him because they didn't think he was worth the money. So the Lee thing while it did happen it again was something that rarely happens in the league.

    3. Beasley, Jennings and Carmello. Yes on this. I forgot to add, sometimes really high draft picks can help a team become a playoff team in their first few season. like those three. Yes DeMar was taken before Jennings but Jennings was considered by far the best player in the country the year that he graduated from High School. He would have gone a lot higher in the draft than he did if he could have been selected the year before right out of high school but he was not eligible for the draft so he had to go to Europe since he did not want to play college ball. He didn't play very well in Europe spending a lot of time on the bench there. So it seems to me that his ranking was lowered a bit because of his rejecting the American NCAA system for a year and because he did not play very well while over in Europe. However, in my opinion he should have been ROY even with his low shooting percentage and I would have drafted him in the top 5.

    Cassell in 94 must have been with KG. KG has a way of allowing teams to round out their five man unit with cheap fillers at the time.

    After that in the second part you lost me entirely.
    Last edited by Buddahfan; Sat Sep 18th, 2010 at 07:44 PM.
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    Courtney Lee was traded by Orlando to New Jersey as part of the Vince Carter deal it had nothing to do with his salary (which is rookie scale) or Orlando thinking that he wasn't worth the money. Please keep it as close to 100% as possible.

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    Quote Buddahfan wrote: View Post
    1. Rondo and Perkins were picked and not better players at the time because the Celtics were over the luxury level and the owners did not want to spend any more money then they thought they needed to., The thinking was the big three were so good that any two players will do to make five unless as the last two don't cost too much. So Rondo and Perkins just happened to be in the right place in the right time.

    2. Lee got the minutes because he had a skill that met an Orlando need in their offense. Lee can shoot three's In his rookie season he took over 200 of them and made over 40% of them. The Magic eventually got rid of him because they didn't think he was worth the money. So the Lee thing while it did happen it again was something that rarely happens in the league.

    3. Beasley, Jennings and Carmello. Yes on this. I forgot to add, sometimes really high draft picks can help a team become a playoff team in their first few season. like those three. Yes DeMar was taken before Jennings but Jennings was considered by far the best player in the country the year that he graduated from High School. He would have gone a lot higher in the draft than he did if he could have been selected the year before right out of high school but he was not eligible for the draft so he had to go to Europe since he did not want to play college ball. He didn't play very well in Europe spending a lot of time on the bench there. So it seems to me that his ranking was lowered a bit because of his rejecting the American NCAA system for a year and because he did not play very well while over in Europe. However, in my opinion he should have been ROY even with his low shooting percentage and I would have drafted him in the top 5.

    Cassell in 94 must have been with KG. KG has a way of allowing teams to round out their five man unit with cheap fillers at the time.

    After that in the second part you lost me entirely.
    I was just trying to think of rookies who made significant contributions to playoff teams.

    Sam Cassell was with the Rockets when they won their two championships when Jordan was retired for the first time. They had quite a team but Cassell did play a very significant role.

    Yeah, sorry about the second part. I'll try again.

    No doubt that Amir, Kleiza, Bargs, Jack, and DD could start on other lottery teams. In a nutshell I was attempting to compare the line up they have NOW to what they could have next season.

    In the possible line up for next season three of the starters of this year are now the bench - which would make an awesome bench and an awesome top 8 players for the Raps (9 including Davis, 10 with Barbosa, 11 with Weems).

    Basically many of the upper teams have guys coming off the bench that could start for the lottery teams. So the Raptors lineup, while currently comparable to bottom tier teams in the league, is currently not comparable to upper tier teams in the league because our starters most likely would not start on the upper tier teams.

    The hypothetical lineup I put in using the assets the Raps have over the next year (draft pick, TPE, salary cap) could send many of this year's starters to the bench. Assuming the team gels and has good chemistry (which is not a guarantee) that would be a deep team and one that could certainly contend for a top spot in the east.

    Any clearer? I hope so.

    And if still not clear - one last kick at the can:

    Take the current team,
    drop Evans, Banks, Anderson, and Calderon
    add Irving (or a much better PG than what we currently have), Jeff Green (or a much better SF than we currently have), and Marc Gasol (or a much better C than we currently have)
    have Jack, Kleiza, Johnson coming off the bench

    Assuming DD develops as expected this year, Bargs, Irving (if he lives up to the hype), Green, and Gasol could all start on upper tier teams in the NBA.

    Jack, Kleiza, and Johnson would not be starting on upper tier teams in the league unless they are playing with Kobe/Gasol/Artest or Pierce/Allen/Garnett or Wade/LeBron/Bosh.

    Ohhh, I think I might have got your point now - lol - hopefully mine came through somewhere in this mess.

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    Raptors Republic Veteran Buddahfan's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    I was just trying to think of rookies who made significant contributions to playoff teams.

    Sam Cassell was with the Rockets when they won their two championships when Jordan was retired for the first time. They had quite a team but Cassell did play a very significant role.

    Yeah, sorry about the second part. I'll try again.

    No doubt that Amir, Kleiza, Bargs, Jack, and DD could start on other lottery teams. In a nutshell I was attempting to compare the line up they have NOW to what they could have next season.

    In the possible line up for next season three of the starters of this year are now the bench - which would make an awesome bench and an awesome top 8 players for the Raps (9 including Davis, 10 with Barbosa, 11 with Weems).

    Basically many of the upper teams have guys coming off the bench that could start for the lottery teams. So the Raptors lineup, while currently comparable to bottom tier teams in the league, is currently not comparable to upper tier teams in the league because our starters most likely would not start on the upper tier teams.

    The hypothetical lineup I put in using the assets the Raps have over the next year (draft pick, TPE, salary cap) could send many of this year's starters to the bench. Assuming the team gels and has good chemistry (which is not a guarantee) that would be a deep team and one that could certainly contend for a top spot in the east.

    Any clearer? I hope so.

    And if still not clear - one last kick at the can:

    Take the current team,
    drop Evans, Banks, Anderson, and Calderon
    add Irving (or a much better PG than what we currently have), Jeff Green (or a much better SF than we currently have), and Marc Gasol (or a much better C than we currently have)
    have Jack, Kleiza, Johnson coming off the bench

    Assuming DD develops as expected this year, Bargs, Irving (if he lives up to the hype), Green, and Gasol could all start on upper tier teams in the NBA.

    Jack, Kleiza, and Johnson would not be starting on upper tier teams in the league unless they are playing with Kobe/Gasol/Artest or Pierce/Allen/Garnett or Wade/LeBron/Bosh.

    Ohhh, I think I might have got your point now - lol - hopefully mine came through somewhere in this mess.
    To summarize my comments about the second section.

    I don't agree with with your assessment of the players.

    Before the end of 10-11 Kleiza and DeRozan will prove that they could start on a solid playoff team. Johnson will also if he can keep his fouls down and average 30 + mpg.
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    Quote Buddahfan wrote: View Post
    To summarize my comments about the second section.

    I don't agree with with your assessment of the players.

    Before the end of 10-11 Kleiza and DeRozan will prove that they could start on a solid playoff team. Johnson will also if he can keep his fouls down and average 30 + mpg.
    C'mon Buddha, the guy wrote so much. He deserves a long answer! HAHA. Explain pleeaaasseeeeee, it's fun to read Learn new things ever day

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