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Thread: Jack It Up Jack Forgot That He Is A Point Guard But Then Maybe He Knows He's Not

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    Raptors Republic Veteran Buddahfan's Avatar
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    Default Jack It Up Jack Forgot That He Is A Point Guard But Then Maybe He Knows He's Not

    Today vs the Celtics we witnessed the tightness of Jack, Weems and DeRozan freeze Bargnani out of the offense during the first half and relegate him to the back of the offensive bus for the entire game.

    Interestingly enough Johnson who can play well with just about anyone found himself playing the second half with all International players, Barbosa, Kleiza, Andersen and Calderon. Johnson to his credit committed only one foul in 15 minutes finishing with a +4 the best among the Raptors players today.

    Shots taken.
    --------------------

    Jack
    ------------------
    Min-------27
    FGA------12
    FT---------5
    Assists----1

    Starters FG% 37%
    Starters +/- Minus 26


    Calderon
    ----------------
    Min-------20
    FGA-------4
    FT---------2
    Assists----6

    Bench FG% 43%
    Bench +/- Plus 6


    In the first half Jack Weems and DeRozan froze Bargnani out of the offense.

    In the second half Bargnani was pressing and finished with his second straight miserable shooting game on 1 - 8 and 4 points

    I don't know whether it will be a good thing or not. However, to the extent that we continue to see Jack, Weems and DeRozan on the court with Bargnani, Andrea can whistle for the ball and it probably won't do him much good.

    Addendum: Dorsey finished with 5 PF in only 9 minutes. If he makes the roster he could be in line to take away Johnson's title as the Raptors Most likely to commit a foul while on the court
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    It's a shame. His shoot first mentality has just been creeping up and stealing his soul. Here's his Ast/FGA ratios going back to college:
    2002/2003 - GTech - 0.86
    2003/2004 - GTech - 0.67
    2004/2005 - GTech - 0.45
    2005/2006 - POR - 0.51
    2006/2007 - POR - 0.59
    2007/2008 - POR - 0.50
    2008/2009 - IND - 0.40
    2009/2010 - TOR - 0.62

    Even with the slight uptick last year, that's a huge drop off from his sophomore year in college when he became a starter. Here's his FGA/Pos over the same span:

    2002/2003 - GTech - 0.65
    2003/2004 - GTech - 0.69
    2004/2005 - GTech - 0.72
    2005/2006 - POR - 0.73
    2006/2007 - POR - 0.71
    2007/2008 - POR - 0.71
    2008/2009 - IND - 0.77
    2009/2010 - TOR - 0.74

    It's like watching the oil spill spread across the gulf.

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    Jack is Jack( a combo guard). I liked how D up'd and drove the ball to the hoop/paint all game barely missing a game tying reverse layup that had even the Boston commentators giving Jack props. The subsequent block by West of Jack's jumper was bad luck. Still Jack > Jose.

    Maybe Bargnani is just ass w/o Bosh to cover for him? Bargnani should have posted his self up in the post and demanded the ball. He played this summer for Italy so he should be in game shape like Kleiza has shown to be in. As I said before the best Raptor units this season will most likely be sans Bargnani. Plus his defense was atrocious as usual Boston commentators even wondered aloud wtf w/ Barg's D.lol

    Barbosa looked really good. TO needs a point forward ie Prince, Diaw, SJackson- ASAP, as Barbosa looks to me to be the Rap's best overall guard so far in the preseason. Kleiza is still better suited to play the 4 in my mind.

    I still can't understand how Andrea is the only Raptor with a guaranteed starting position- as per Triano? Hopefully he steps his game up before the regular season begins.
    Last edited by SirChillyMost; Sun Oct 10th, 2010 at 10:07 PM.

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    Raptors Republic Rookie LeeZ's Avatar
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    I beg to differ about Bargs being frozen out. He froze himself out, pure and simple. If he's just gonna camp out behind the 3-pt line (and hasn't he said that he's going to stop doing that this year?) and then just dish the ball off (along the perimeter) when he does get a pass thrown his way, then I would do exactly what Jack et al are doing. In what should be a statement time for Il Mago (and by statement, I mean stepping up in Bosh's absence, being if not THE man, then at least A man; getting back on dee -- did you see the play where he got stripped of the ball on a drive (one of only two on the night) and then SAUNTERED, yes, SAUNTERED back instead of helping stop the Celts' break; rebounding; putting someone - ANYONE - on their ass instead of daintily trying to block shots but heaven forbid that he should even TOUCH the guy about to dunk the ball, to be contrasted with Pierce, who literally put DD on his ass early on...yeah, so like I was saying, wasn't this supposed to be statement time for him? And yet he has laid two catatonic, disinterested disappearance acts on the fans and his teammates right out of the gate. Isn't there ANYONE in the Raps organization who has the BALLS to get in this guy's face and DEMAND a decent effort, some intensity, some desire? If there isn't, then please, do us all a favour and trade this guy. He could be a very good complementary piece on a very good team. OUR team has to be about effort and desire, though. Two things he has in EXTREMELY short supply. I've never been a Bargnani basher. Until now. I just see more of the same old bullshit from him. He's had his chance. Show him the door.

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    Quote LeeZ wrote: View Post
    He could be a very good complementary piece on a very good team. OUR team has to be about effort and desire, though. Two things he has in EXTREMELY short supply. I've never been a Bargnani basher. Until now. I just see more of the same old bullshit from him. He's had his chance. Show him the door.
    I think you have made your position on this very clear.
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    Umm... No one is freezing anyone out. Bargnani went 1 for 8 on his merit alone. And it's not Jack's fault Bargnani let some camp invitee blow by him for a dunk with less than 3 minutes left. Expecting Jarrett Jack to be anything more than what he is is foolish (I got a little peeved when he tried that shot against West, but at least he tried SOMETHING and West, realistically speaking, is a better basketball player than Jack). Jack had 7 assists in Phoenix, so we know he's capable of being a facilitator.

    Look, it's preseason and none of this really matters. I don't care about the score or whether they win or lose, but the fact that Bargnani and Calderon (0 for 4) couldn't make 2nd stringers pay has to worry some fans. At this point, I don't really expect anything from Bargnani. Sometimes, you are who you are and Bargnani might not be anything else but a poor man's Mehmet Okur.

    “(Bargnani) is not doing things as quickly, and with as much urgency as we’d like him to. Maybe he’s not in shape. . . . Maybe these practices are taking a toll.”

    -- Jay Triano, 10-10-10

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    Quote LeeZ wrote: View Post
    I beg to differ about Bargs being frozen out. He froze himself out, pure and simple. If he's just gonna camp out behind the 3-pt line (and hasn't he said that he's going to stop doing that this year?) and then just dish the ball off (along the perimeter) when he does get a pass thrown his way, then I would do exactly what Jack et al are doing. In what should be a statement time for Il Mago (and by statement, I mean stepping up in Bosh's absence, being if not THE man, then at least A man; getting back on dee -- did you see the play where he got stripped of the ball on a drive (one of only two on the night) and then SAUNTERED, yes, SAUNTERED back instead of helping stop the Celts' break; rebounding; putting someone - ANYONE - on their ass instead of daintily trying to block shots but heaven forbid that he should even TOUCH the guy about to dunk the ball, to be contrasted with Pierce, who literally put DD on his ass early on...yeah, so like I was saying, wasn't this supposed to be statement time for him? And yet he has laid two catatonic, disinterested disappearance acts on the fans and his teammates right out of the gate. Isn't there ANYONE in the Raps organization who has the BALLS to get in this guy's face and DEMAND a decent effort, some intensity, some desire? If there isn't, then please, do us all a favour and trade this guy. He could be a very good complementary piece on a very good team. OUR team has to be about effort and desire, though. Two things he has in EXTREMELY short supply. I've never been a Bargnani basher. Until now. I just see more of the same old bullshit from him. He's had his chance. Show him the door.
    LEEZ for fuckin' mayor!!! Dude, all that you said, I co-sign that. BC needs to open his eyes because if Bargs is the only one guaranteed a starting role, then what message does that spread to the rest of the players and coaching staff. It explains Triano's demeanor when asked about Bargs being the only one with a guaranteed starters role. He didn't even seem comfortable saying that, real talk. Even Jose, with ALL of the criticism, along with Banks, has came into the camp and pre-season in better mind frame to excel, or try even. Bargs is probably thinking that he's aight because of BC's (because I'm not sold on Triano being sold on Bargs) constant support and high expectations. Sort of like that spoiled mama's boy who you just wanted to punch out in the sandbox. To be honest, before he's fully exposed, if not already, we should trade him. He's our most valuable chip, right now. Believe me. He's not working with us. How can the organization stand there and say that Bargs got better, when he's exposed the same way, every year. He just gets bigger. Yeah, his outside inside game was good last season, towards the end, but we had a different make up and Byatch as our go to guy. Il Wasto has to go, NOW.
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    Bargnani for Okafor anyone?? Just read that Chouest has pulled out of buying the Hornets. That means Shinn will be back into dumping salary.
    Last edited by Maleko; Mon Oct 11th, 2010 at 12:01 AM.

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    I do think that Jack needs to facilitate more and combo gard or not if he's going to start he needs to be a distributer so our guys can get into the game. As far as Bargs, maybe Jack is avoiding him on offense but I think this is more of a case of Bargs not getting after it. He never looks like he wants to take it to the other team and all his shots look like he's forcing his offence. Maybe it is a locker room issue but I think it is more likely that no one has given him the message that we need him to perform if this franchise has any hope this year. I am all for giving him the ball every second pay and telling him to create during next game, just to see what he does when it is all on him. We need Bargs to play to his potential this season and I think we should do whatever it takes to make that happen.
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    Quote Maleko wrote: View Post
    Bargnani for Okafor anyone?? Just read that Chouest has pulled out of buying the Hornets. That means Shinn will be back into dumping salary.
    Yes, yes, a thousand times yes. Okafor would give us the rebounding that would allow us to fast break. We should be a running team. That should be our identity. We have the athletes to do it. We have the interchangeable parts to do it (basically, put 10 guys' names in a hat and pick one starting unit and one bench unit), so we could play everyone 24 minutes or so, during which they would be expected to RUN, RUN, RUN! And full-court press 24/7. Last team to try this was Pitino's Knicks back when Jackson was a rookie, and it worked, they overachieved big time. It wears down the opposition, because their starters get real tired, real fast. And it allows our offence to score in transition a lot, which will mask some of our glaring deficiencies in a half-court offence. Plus it's entertaining to watch, so it gives us fans a reason to buy tickets while we're rebuilding.

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    Raptors Republic Rookie Quest's Avatar
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    LeeZ and Gamebreaker are on point: Bargs has been frozen on the catch and rushed shots early in clock for 80% of his career so far, not to even mention how many players score on him, so let's not act surprised, or blame Jack for leaving off the cold hand on a given night. The only time Jack really rushes offense is near the end of a close game in which no one else is taking control and he has too much pride not to go down fighting. If he could have more certainty or confidence in a single option then you would probably see much less of those rushed shots. That's not in defence of Jack, just that the situation he's in is tough, given his own strengths, tendencies and limitations. Obviously the coach has to give them a nice play to run in those critical situations so they can focus on their assignments...
    Anyways, Jack is Jack, as it turns out we're lucky to have him, but the real crazy thing for fans about Bargs being "frozen" all the time is when we see the giant awaken and easily affect somebody's shot or even just take a breath, put the ball on the floor and destroy somebody at the rim. It's those flare-up moments that punish us to know what his true potential is... but does anyone think he's gonna suddenly start playing like that all the time?

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