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Thread: Jay Got His Training Camp Plus 1: Now What Is His System?

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    Default Jay Got His Training Camp Plus 1: Now What Is His System?

    When Jay initially took over for Sam 17 games into the 2008-09 season alot of folks said that Jay needed a training camp to implement his style and shake the team from being under Sam's mindset.

    Ok.

    Jay got his training camp plus one now can somebody out there in RR land please explain to me what exactly is the basketball system that Jay has implemented and how is it better than what the Rap's were doing under Sam both offensively and defensively because Jay is scrapping what he implemented last season ie defending the house, in training camp while seemingly implementing a whole new system once again. Does Jay even have a specific system? Or does he just change up his system as he sees fit (as directed by BC)?

    Much appreciated and thanks in advance.

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    Raptors Republic Starter knickz's Avatar
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    I want triano fired immediatley...i have lost all faith with this guy's coaching abilities

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    Well, he changed the system with new personnel, and since I've only seen three preseason games, it's pretty much impossible to determine exactly what he's doing, but it seems to me he's trying to build an attacking defense, predicated on defensive pressure and trapping, which would lead to a lot of turnovers and fast break points. Considering the roster, I think it's a sound system. These guys are best when they get out and run. Of course the system requires effort, and if the effort is not there, as it was not in Chicago, the team is going to look bad.

    On offense, since there's no one that will demand double teams, movement is key. Again, if you don't move, the offense isn't going to work.

    In preseason, there's a lot of experimenting and adjusting to see what works and what doesn't. For example, I wouldn't expect to see Julian Wright play 14 minutes on a regular basis. Or to have David Andersen start.

    Gregg Popovich is famous for using the first month or so of the regular season to experiment, which is why they usually don't start the season all that well. By January, they generally start to get into their groove.

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    "Gregg Popovich is famous for using the first month or so of the regular season to experiment, which is why they usually don't start the season all that well. By January, they generally start to get into their groove. "

    Yes but we are not the Spurs and we don't have the same personnel and winning mentality ...I don't think we can wait until January

    I agree with the attacking defense ect. and if that the case Bargnani would be useless in that system they are going all in with the Young gunz bullcrap here he goes a first draft pick !

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    Quote footie wrote: View Post
    "Gregg Popovich is famous for using the first month or so of the regular season to experiment, which is why they usually don't start the season all that well. By January, they generally start to get into their groove. "

    Yes but we are not the Spurs and we don't have the same personnel and winning mentality ...I don't think we can wait until January

    I agree with the attacking defense ect. and if that the case Bargnani would be useless in that system they are going all in with the Young gunz bullcrap here he goes a first draft pick !
    Okay, let me first say that punctuation should not be your enemy. Run on sentences can be a little difficult to read.

    And my mention of the Spurs was to show that teams don't necessarily do everything the same as everyone else. There's not one way of doing things. What exactly can't the Raptors wait for until January? They're not making the playoffs either way.

    I agree that Bargnani is not great for the system they are running, but there are very few systems he would be great for. What his draft position was is irrelevant. Especially considering it wasn't a strong draft year. The Raptors should do what is best for the team, not Bargnani.

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    "The Raptors should do what is best for the team, not Bargnani." sure ! why keeping him then ? they can get more and the end of the year? If his stats will suffer this year because of this new defense attacking scheme what you are going to get for him? are you really thinking the young gunz is the way to go?
    I hope we get a good PG in the draft and we'll see ..even if would be nice to get the hands on a CP3 I would sacrifice this Young gunz movement for him !

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    Raptors Republic Starter knickz's Avatar
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    Fire jay triano!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This guy has to be the most confused coach in history

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    Quote footie wrote: View Post
    "The Raptors should do what is best for the team, not Bargnani." sure ! why keeping him then ?
    THIS, I completely agree with.

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    Can anyone tell me what Sam's system was?

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    Quote Hank wrote: View Post
    Can anyone tell me what Sam's system was?
    Freaking out.
    Eh follow my TWITTER!

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    yell a lot, blame losses on "shawts" not falling and fleecing the good people of Toronto for free chocolate cakes. NBA: Where Sam Mitchell happens.

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    The point I was making is that whatever system Jay implemented last season- especially on defense (protect the house give up open 3s), didn't work up to expectations (playoffs) while Sam got us to the palyoffs with his pick/roll based offense(Jose-TJ/Bosh) and a funneling defensive approach.

    Also, Sam had far less roster talent than Jay had last season but got the most out of it while talent seems to under perform with Jay as head coach. I don't think Jay could motivate an avalanche to roll.....Sam was one hell of a motivator- playing time was his word and the bench was his tool to get that word across.

    Now Jay is changing his system, philosophy once again while shouldn't TO be changing head coaches instead? If BC really wanted to win he would hire an experienced coach not a feel good PR story (1st Canadian NBA head coach in order to pacify Canadian fans to put up with the losing) in my mind.

    Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me............I feel ya Bosh......

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    I think it's only prudent to wait until a few games into the season before everybody calls for Triano to be fired. Yes, they got raped by Chicago and Triano didn't seem to have any answers, but since this IS the preseason, it's possible that Triano is keeping his coaching intervention to a minimum in an attempt to see how these guys are capable of playing freestyle, and then adapting their sets accordingly. At least that's how it seemed last night, and if that is the case, then the Raps should probably keep their freestyling to a minimum because they looked absolutely lost at times.

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    Quote SirChillyMost wrote: View Post
    The point I was making is that whatever system Jay implemented last season- especially on defense (protect the house give up open 3s), didn't work up to expectations (playoffs) while Sam got us to the palyoffs with his pick/roll based offense(Jose-TJ/Bosh) and a funneling defensive approach.

    Also, Sam had far less roster talent than Jay had last season but got the most out of it while talent seems to under perform with Jay as head coach. I don't think Jay could motivate an avalanche to roll.....Sam was one hell of a motivator- playing time was his word and the bench was his tool to get that word across.

    Now Jay is changing his system, philosophy once again while shouldn't TO be changing head coaches instead? If BC really wanted to win he would hire an experienced coach not a feel good PR story (1st Canadian NBA head coach in order to pacify Canadian fans to put up with the losing) in my mind.

    Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me............I feel ya Bosh......
    Well, first of all, what do you mean that last year's squad was more talented? According to who? OFFENSIVELY, that may have been true, but the other years had much better defensive players. Teams that play defense tend to perform up to expectations. Teams that just score don't. It has nothing to do with the coach.

    Banging on the coach is completely ignoring the faults in the roster that much of the US media saw last year which is why many of them picked the Raptors to miss the playoffs. Personally, I predicted 45 wins, but I certainly saw the flaws. That team wasn't going far because they were never going to be above average defensively with the roster they had.

    People like to use Triano as a scapegoat because they don't want to look at the roster and see the flaws. I think this roster is flawed and don't expect more than 35 wins, at the most (more like 25-30, though), but they are young and there are some good young pieces.

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    Quote Tim W. wrote: View Post
    Well, first of all, what do you mean that last year's squad was more talented? According to who? OFFENSIVELY, that may have been true, but the other years had much better defensive players. Teams that play defense tend to perform up to expectations. Teams that just score don't. It has nothing to do with the coach.

    Banging on the coach is completely ignoring the faults in the roster that much of the US media saw last year which is why many of them picked the Raptors to miss the playoffs. Personally, I predicted 45 wins, but I certainly saw the flaws. That team wasn't going far because they were never going to be above average defensively with the roster they had.

    People like to use Triano as a scapegoat because they don't want to look at the roster and see the flaws. I think this roster is flawed and don't expect more than 35 wins, at the most (more like 25-30, though), but they are young and there are some good young pieces.
    I mean exactly what I said.

    Last season's Raptor team was far more talented than any team Sam had- point blank, and they missed the playoffs. In my mind if Sam was coaching them they would have made the playoffs.

    2006-07 Raptor roster (Sam 47-35. Atlantic Division Champs. Playoffs.):
    http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/TOR/2007.html

    2007-08 Raptor roster (Sam 41-41. Playoffs.):
    http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/TOR/2008.html

    2008-09 Raptor roster (Sam fired at 8-9. Jay hired goes 25-40. 33-49. No playoffs.):
    http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/TOR/2009.html

    2009-10 Raptor roster (Jay 40-42. More roster talent than Sam ever had. No playoffs.):
    http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/TOR/2010.html

    2010-11 Raptor roster (Bosh gone. Bargnani franchise. Jay implementing new system. Preseason predictions- Lottery.):
    http://www.nba.com/raptors/roster/


    Also, it has everything to do with the coach and his coaching philosophy, leadership and motivational abilities or lack thereof. If a NBA coach wants his players to buy into what he's preaching then he has to back up his words with actions unlike letting Bargnani mess up again and again on defensive rotations with no visible repercussions despite the coaches wordage to the contrary last season.

    What type of messages does that send to the rest of the roster?

    Fyi- last season some folks had TO in the playoffs fighting for one of the lower seeds (6-8) in their preseason predictions:
    http://www.midwestsportsfans.com/200...ngs-preseason/
    http://www.sportsofboston.com/2009/1...gs-prediction/
    http://thepaintedarea.blogspot.com/2...edictions.html

    As well, Jay didn't do his job as the Raptor's head coach instilling a no accountability era inwhich he helped to cost TO a playoff spot- breaking clip boards over your knee just doesn't cut it. Jay's- "I liked the effort" comment in a post game presser after a blowout loss to Chicago late in the season says it all to me, friend.

    This season's Raptor roster is BC's bull chit vision in action. I can see anywhere from 15-25 wins if a brutal early season schedule doesn't put them in NJ Net cira 2009-10 territory with the roster as is.
    Last edited by SirChillyMost; Wed Oct 13th, 2010 at 07:09 PM.

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    I don't think Mitchell was a bad coach and I also don't think he should have been fired, but the 47 win team had veterans who knew how to play and knew how to win, AND played defense. For one season, I'd take 2007 Anthony Parker over DeRozan/Wright. I'd take Garbajosa over Turkogluin a second. And I'd take Nesterovic over Bargnani. All three of those guys did the little things that helped a team win. They all played defense and didn't mind getting their hands dirty. And the combo of Ford and Calderon was better than the combination of Jack and Calderon.

    Simple talent doesn't win. You need the right talent. Bargnani is a talented player, but since he doesn't rebound or defend, he's not going to help you win. DeRozan has talent, but he's young and too inexperienced to know how to win. Turkoglu, well, is Turkoglu. Lots of talent, but not the hardest worker.

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    Talent alone doesn't games win hard working talent wins games.

    This is the team that BC has built via his Raptor vision.....with the help of Raptor vision specialist Stevie Wonder.......
    Last edited by SirChillyMost; Thu Oct 14th, 2010 at 11:03 PM.

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    So far, his "system" is nothing, at least on offense. Other than Bargnani setting a screen for Jack near the three-point line and then Jack proceeding to ignore him and Bargnani not caring much about being ignored, it's just been some half-hearted baseline screens that don't do much. Hell, from the looks of it I think he's trying to turn Evans into Hakeem.

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    Quote Arsenalist wrote: View Post
    So far, his "system" is nothing, at least on offense. Other than Bargnani setting a screen for Jack near the three-point line and then Jack proceeding to ignore him and Bargnani not caring much about being ignored, it's just been some half-hearted baseline screens that don't do much. Hell, from the looks of it I think he's trying to turn Evans into Hakeem.
    Another questionable basketball IQ move- letting Evans post up...Evans has no business posting up that should be all Bargnani especially in the preseason. Evans should just be doing the grunt work and get any shots off of rebounds/put backs/tip ins.

    Jay's basketball system is the Coach K flavor of the month since his system last season didn't work well enough to gather a playoff spot now he's on to the next which to me means that he didn't really have a system to implement much different from Sam's to begin with the change was mostly all cosmetic in my mind & to pacify Bargnani.

    Jay's basically going on his 3rd year as the TO head coach....65-82.....Sam was fired at 8-9....smh

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