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Thread: The Insanity of the Current Starting Lineup Is Obvious

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    Raptors Republic Veteran Buddahfan's Avatar
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    Default The Insanity of the Current Starting Lineup Is Obvious

    Last season when Bosh started the Raptors scored a lot of points and Bargnani also scored well and shot pretty good.

    Last season because Bosh required double or sometimes even triple teaming the Raptors starting lineup was in effect playing five on four. With Bosh constantly being double teamed someone else was always open. Bosh could not only score out of the double team but the other four Raptors constantly had relatively easy shots being guarded three on four.

    Now enter 2010-11 with Reggie starting.

    To his credit Evans lost a lot of weight and has played well on defense. However on offense he is a big zero. So now the Raptors minus Bosh and plus Evans are playing four on five on offense because no one guards Evans.

    Clearly when you are playing in the NBA four on five on offense and you have no one who can break the defense down off of the dribble your offense is going to have a rough go.

    Starting Evans and playing him next to Bargnani has really negatively impacted Bargnani's offense. Where last year he would often find himself open he is now being double teamed and the other three scorers on the Raptors are having to go one on one while Evans remains unguarded.

    So what is the solution to this stupidity of starting Evans?

    Remove him from the starting lineup.

    The Raptors could go several ways, some of which would be a massive improvement over Evans as a starter.

    1. Start Kleiza at PF and either Weems or DeRozan at SF and either DeRozan or Barbosa at SG

    2. Start Anderson with Bargnani - Not near as good a choice as the first one and may be worse than starting Evans because Evans has been playing better defense.

    3. Start Johnson and play him until he has to come out due to fouls or finishes his prescribed rotation minutes. Johnson at least showed last season that a starting unit encompassing Johnson and Bargnani could score and beat the below .500 teams.

    4. Start Alabi - He at least has some offense and why not give him a chance.

    5. Start Dorsey - About the same as Evans in terms of not having to be guarded.

    6. Sign Dampier or another big who can play some defense and has to be guarded.
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    7. Trade Bargnani... if trying to find the right player to pair with Bargnani is proving difficult, why not trade Bargnani and bring in a new centre and power forward that complement each other and fit it whatever 'system' Triano is trying to install? Why overhaul the front court? Because none of Johnson, Evans, Anderson, Dorsey or Alabi will be starters in the NBA. The only hope appears to be Davis. So package up Bargnani and whoever else and bring in a big that can play with Davis (when he is healthy). Then if Davis doesn't work out time to find a new 4.

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    it's ed davis's spot, triano has just moved up the rotation until his return. Im pretty sure raps what to give davis big starting development minutes like DeRozan had last season

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    Quote black angus wrote: View Post
    7. Trade Bargnani... if trying to find the right player to pair with Bargnani is proving difficult, why not trade Bargnani and bring in a new centre and power forward that complement each other and fit it whatever 'system' Triano is trying to install? Why overhaul the front court? Because none of Johnson, Evans, Anderson, Dorsey or Alabi will be starters in the NBA. The only hope appears to be Davis. So package up Bargnani and whoever else and bring in a big that can play with Davis (when he is healthy). Then if Davis doesn't work out time to find a new 4.
    Bingo!

    I do agree, though, that this is obviously just temporary until Davis starts to play, but it does highlight the problem with having Bargnani on the roster.

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    Raptors Republic Rookie Karl Marx's Avatar
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    Barganini is a waste of skin! Get s REAL center instead!

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    why can davis be a center? if Jermaine O'neal can do it (i know he is a PF in his prime) ... davis MAY be able to play that position (if he bulk up)
    Last edited by KakashiPrince; Sat Oct 16th, 2010 at 02:16 PM.

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    Raptors Republic Rookie A.Kov's Avatar
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    Davis is undersized and too skinny to be a center. He is also too soft, since he is more of a finesse player like Chris Bosh. He would have a very hard time guarding centers, and it would really be a detriment to his development to force him to play out of position in his rookie year. He will find it hard enough to guard the many elite power forwards in this league, so putting him in an unnatural position against much bigger and stronger players would probably just zap his confidence and lead to a lot of unnecessary struggles. He is supposed to be the PF of the future, so he needs time at his own position.

    Personally, I think Johnson should start with Bargnani for now. PF is the team's weakest position, and the options all pretty much suck, which is why Davis is going to get the most PT there once he's healthy. For now, Johnson can play until he gets in foul trouble, then Reggie and Dorsey can come in and bang/hustle/do the garbage work. It's a bleak position, but Johnson is the best option at this point.

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    Bench and/or trade Bargnani asap..........his lack of defensive awareness is more hurting than what Reggie doesn't bring on offense.

    Bargnani the only guaranteed Raptor starter........smh

    You don't want Davis playing the 5 he will get beat down like CB did early on in his career (maybe his bad knees came from that?) playing out of position. JO is much bigger muscle wise than Davis. I would like to see Dorsey run with the starting unit as he brings more to the court than Evans in my mind.

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    I hate to break it to you A.Kov but Davis is not a finesse player. He's a bit small (if 6'9" is small) and scouts see him as a tweener between a 4 and 5 but none see him as a finesse player. Clearly you didn't watch his run in NCAA with UNC or his summer league games where he exclusively played inside with the odd jumper from the paint thrown in. But don't take my word for it do your own research. Here's a good place to start:
    http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Ed-Davis-1354/

    Oh I'm totally for either Amir starting or Kleiza playing the 4 and Barbosa starting. Really we should alternate between the two.

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    Raptors Republic Rookie A.Kov's Avatar
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    When I say finesse I don't mean that he has the great outside skills already, I just think that he is going to have to be a player more in the mold of Bosh to be successful in the league. In my mind, Finesse is the opposite of a Bruiser, which he will never be. Playing inside in college when you're 6"9 and skinny is one thing but it's not going to translate to the NBA (PJ Tucker played PF at Texas and he is 6"4..where is he now?).
    Davis is going to need to develop moves like Bosh has (quick steps to get inside and score) and to develop a jumper in order to be more effective. His inside game is not going to work against bigger, stronger opponents unless he develops more weapons and a more rounded offensive game. In my opinion he is fully a finesse player, although I guess finesse player in the making is more appropriate at this point.

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    ^ i heard Davis is pretty fast...even faster than bosh and amare (rookie)

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    Raptors Republic Rookie A.Kov's Avatar
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    Being fast doesn't mean he has the ability to make the right face-up moves to use his quickness to get by his defender. This is something he can develop, much like Bosh did. Developing a midrange jumper would also really help his ability to drive inside, because if he becomes a midrange shooting threat, then defenders have to stay honest and they can't solely defend the drive.
    Hopefully the coaching staff will really help him develop, because he is going to get a lot of PT and with the proper guidance can be a good player for this team (especially considering how weak we are currently at the PF position)

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    There are only two possible reasons Reggie is starting and they are: show case him for a trade or Jay Triano is using him a place holder till we get Davis back . He is below Amir and Davis in terms of depth and and Dorsey has played better for the most part this preseason. I think our front court is going to hurt us this year, but that's a rebuild for you: you get the pieces as they come.
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    Jose has to go for the simple reason that he was on the floor when Kobe scored 81. Bargs just has to go. These guys are infecting the team with their softness. AB's interview after the Boston loss was pathetic. Why can't BC realize that it's never going to work. Time for BC to go as well.

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    Raptors Republic Starter Pele's Avatar
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    Best starting line-up based on pre-season.

    Banks, Dorsey, Kleiza, Weems, Alabi. Serious, Kleiza and Weems provide scoring. Alabi for screens/ pick-n-roll. Substitute Jack, Derozan and Barbosa into the 2nd line. Anderson for shooting, Julian for hustle and defense. Reggie for Regginess and comedy. Get Davis minutes when he gets back.

    TRADE AB and JOSE. Recipe for 30 win season.

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    ^ -face palm- u do realize that Banks and the others were facing the Boston bench...

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    Default Pele

    .
    Stick to soccer ...
    .

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    Quote pele wrote: View Post
    best starting line-up based on pre-season.

    Banks, dorsey, kleiza, weems, alabi. Serious, kleiza and weems provide scoring. Alabi for screens/ pick-n-roll. Substitute jack, derozan and barbosa into the 2nd line. Anderson for shooting, julian for hustle and defense. Reggie for regginess and comedy. Get davis minutes when he gets back.

    Trade ab and jose. Recipe for 30 win season.
    lol

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    Raptors Republic Starter matt's Avatar
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    Quote Pele wrote: View Post
    Jose has to go for the simple reason that he was on the floor when Kobe scored 81. Bargs just has to go. These guys are infecting the team with their softness. AB's interview after the Boston loss was pathetic. Why can't BC realize that it's never going to work. Time for BC to go as well.
    don't mention the 81 night, if just feels disgusting even thinking about that game and how NO ONE did shit load of ANYTHING to stop the guy. Ever since then shitty ass players have been getting career highs against us.

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    Raptors Republic Starter minks77's Avatar
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    Dude, shitty ass players have been having career nights vs the raps on a consistent basis since about 2002. This franchise has been soft for a looooooooooooooong time.

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