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Thread: Starting Barbosa over Kleiza

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    Default Starting Barbosa over Kleiza

    I think Kleiza might be a better fit coming off the bench with Calderon.
    They both play more of that half-court European ball. Lets try Barbo with
    Jack, a little speed over size, what do you guys think.

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    So who's going to be the starting SF? DeRozan? Furthermore, you're planning to go small against the lakers?

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    I would start weems over barbosa. With his hand screwed up barbosa becomes a one dimensional penetrator who's only 6:2. If you go smaller weems is athletic enough to guard two's or three's. Kleiza will come around its a big adjustment from europe.

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    demar or barbosa guarding odom???

    that's just nutty.

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    No, I'm not proposing they implement it against the Lakers, that would be suicide.
    My point is having Kleiza on the floor with Calderon would be a better fit.
    For that matter, they could start Calderon over Jack, but that would
    bring up a whole list of other problems.

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    i havent gone and double checked, but im pretty sure the schedule doesnt have alot of SFs i'd mind derozan or barbosa guarding in the next month or two

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    Quote Frankthetank wrote: View Post
    I would start weems over barbosa. With his hand screwed up barbosa becomes a one dimensional penetrator who's only 6:2. If you go smaller weems is athletic enough to guard two's or three's. Kleiza will come around its a big adjustment from europe.
    well put.

    barbosa could make his injury worse starting especially trying to defend.
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    Kleiza is not the problem here. Kleiza needs his grit to defend Odom. They need to establish the paint early and often. I would consider starting Johnson over Evans to give him much needed rest. This way we can see what Amir is all about. Sometimes players need to be given a chance to see what they're made of. Amir needs to be involved in this game as his mobility and scoring inside will be much needed. If Gasol is forced to guard Bargs, that's more opening in the lane (not a lot though as the Laker defenders are really good).

    PS> If Kleiza establishes an outside game, you can also force Odom to move up a little. If the Lakers play zone, and they will, the Raps are toast.
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    What's all this talk about Odom? The Lakers play Artest and Barnes at the SF spot.

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    Raptors Republic Superstar heinz57's Avatar
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    Quote jeff_hostetler wrote: View Post
    What's all this talk about Odom? The Lakers play Artest and Barnes at the SF spot.
    my bad, i brought up odom.. totally forgot about ron-ron and barnes

    still wouldnt want to see derozan or barbosa against them though

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    I said this before the season, Jack, Weems, Barbosa should play together in the back court whether starting or second string. I like Jack more than Calderon, but who cares which one starts it's about matching the set on the floor. I agree Calderon works in theory with Kleiza on a line, so let's start Jose. In the preseason and the very sparing sets this season with Jack, Barbosa, Weems, Amir, and Anderson played very strongly together. To me that's not a starting group, so just move Jose into the starting lineup and "run" with it.

    This mixy-match crap is ridiculous. Triano is 'starting' the players by designated position by how they have played...primarily in preseason...with individual results. The problem is the GROUP that plays best is how it should be played out. 5...FIVE players on the floor. Jack played better (with the second group) than Jose (and still is really), but Jose has played better as a starter than as a reserve.

    Triano continues to 'cater' to the player who plays best at a position and ignoring matchups and teaming of his 5 on the floor.

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    Kleiza is not a starting NBA SF- point blank. He's best suited to come in off of the bench in my mind especially if Jay wants to get out and press up with the defense.

    I would start DD & Weems at the wings with Evans (Davis when healthy), Bargnani & Jack who has great on court chemistry w/ Weems & DD.

    I would give Calderon's back up minutes to Banks and see what happens over say 5-10 games- I bet the pg's collective defense will dramatically improve.

    As well I would like to see a line up of Dorsey Johnson Weems DD Jack sometime during the game as they all have great chemistry off the court which most likely will translate to on the court as well especially effort wise in playing for each other- having each other's back.
    Last edited by SirChillyMost; Fri Nov 5th, 2010 at 04:29 PM.

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    Quote SirChillyMost wrote: View Post
    Kleiza is not a starting NBA SF- point blank. He's best suited to come in off of the bench in my mind especially if Jay wants to get out and press up with the defense.

    I would start DD & Weems at the wings with Evans (Davis when healthy), Bargnani & Jack who has great on court chemistry w/ Weems & DD.

    I would give Calderon's back up minutes to Banks and see what happens over say 5-10 games- I bet the pg's collective defense will dramatically improve.

    As well I would like to see a line up of Dorsey Johnson Weems DD Jack sometime during the game as they all have great chemistry off the court which most likely will translate to on the court as well especially effort wise in playing for each other- having each other's back.
    Kleiza is a very good and intelligent basketball player. He might not be an NBA starter, which I think he is, but he is far better than Weems or Barbosa. And starting out so small doesn't seem smart, having a 6'6 210 pound (Weems and DD are both around there) guy at SF is not a great idea.

    No, no, no, no no no no, no no no way we are giving minutes from Calderon to Banks. Calderon has been playing far better than Jack. Jack has been either 1. Dribbling too much 2. Shooting too much 3. Taking really bad shots 4. Throwing really bad passes 5. Not seeing the offense

    That line-up is really small though, and it would only work if either Weems, DeRozan or Jack are really hot, or else we have no scorer. You can argue Weems is a scorer, but he's a guy that will only help you when you go on runs, the guy has been annoying me so much with how he just takes the ball and shoots. He'll have nights where he gets 20 points but you know there are 4 other guys around him.

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    Quote JoePanini wrote: View Post
    Kleiza is a very good and intelligent basketball player. He might not be an NBA starter, which I think he is, but he is far better than Weems or Barbosa. And starting out so small doesn't seem smart, having a 6'6 210 pound (Weems and DD are both around there) guy at SF is not a great idea.

    No, no, no, no no no no, no no no way we are giving minutes from Calderon to Banks. Calderon has been playing far better than Jack. Jack has been either 1. Dribbling too much 2. Shooting too much 3. Taking really bad shots 4. Throwing really bad passes 5. Not seeing the offense

    That line-up is really small though, and it would only work if either Weems, DeRozan or Jack are really hot, or else we have no scorer. You can argue Weems is a scorer, but he's a guy that will only help you when you go on runs, the guy has been annoying me so much with how he just takes the ball and shoots. He'll have nights where he gets 20 points but you know there are 4 other guys around him.
    He's (Kleiza) far better than Barbosa? smh Bosa > Kleiza. Bosa is a proven NBA commodity- Kleiza is not as proven. As well Sonny may be better a better all around player than Kleiza- time will tell on that 1.

    Claderon has been too hesitant to shoot when open and has been building brick houses w/ his jumper all season long- he had his best game so far against LA but has been very inconsistent all season so far. If he keeps it up I'm all for giving Banks a shot especially if Jay wants to play pressure, disruptive defense- Banks is his best defensive pg....smh

    Jack has been getting jerked by Jay early into the season clearing outplaying Jose all preseason then getting the starting job at the last moment before the regular season began (almost reluctantly from BC/Jay) but is still treated as a back up depending on the game particulars. This is no way to treat either Jack or Jose- name a starter and run with it instead of playing hot & cold musical pg chairs with the two.

    Also, DeRozan is rebounding at the same clip as Kleiza- 3 per game, and Sonny has been know to hit the boards using his athleticism to battle bigger players for rebounds plus they can both get out and run the floor while pressing up on defense like Jay preached all preseason. Bargnani would have to be more of a force on the boards as well in that line up.

    Weems, DD & Jack have a tite on court chemistry that would only be enhanced by playing together in my mind.

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    Quote SirChillyMost wrote: View Post
    He's (Kleiza) far better than Barbosa? smh Bosa > Kleiza. Bosa is a proven NBA commodity- Kleiza is not as proven. As well Sonny may be better a better all around player than Kleiza- time will tell on that 1.

    Claderon has been too hesitant to shoot when open and has been building brick houses w/ his jumper all season long- he had his best game so far against LA but has been very inconsistent all season so far. If he keeps it up I'm all for giving Banks a shot especially if Jay wants to play pressure, disruptive defense- Banks is his best defensive pg....smh

    Jack has been getting jerked by Jay early into the season clearing outplaying Jose all preseason then getting the starting job at the last moment before the regular season began (almost reluctantly from BC/Jay) but is still treated as a back up depending on the game particulars. This is no way to treat either Jack or Jose- name a starter and run with it instead of playing hot & cold musical pg chairs with the two.

    Also, DeRozan is rebounding at the same clip as Kleiza- 3 per game, and Sonny has been know to hit the boards using his athleticism to battle bigger players for rebounds plus they can both get out and run the floor while pressing up on defense like Jay preached all preseason. Bargnani would have to be more of a force on the boards as well in that line up.

    Weems, DD & Jack have a tite on court chemistry that would only be enhanced by playing together in my mind.
    Kleiza is also a proven player. He played well in his minutes with Denver. Was always efficient, plus he can be a leader and a great scorer. He has better mid-range and close-range ability than Barbosa although Barbosa IS a better shooter and is a lot quicker. But Barbosa is definitely a bench player, his energy off the bench is extremely important. Anyways Barbosa and Kleiza are both good, very different players but both good. But Kleiza is 10 times the player Weems is. All Weems can do is chuck shots and run around, I'm not even kidding. I've watched every game this season, and I would pay every member of this forum a dollar for every time he passes. He is good, but Kleiza is just a much better player.

    Jose has been better than Jack in the passed couple of games. But he is great off the bench, with them both playing 24 minutes... Banks is nowhere as good as Jose or Jack, even with his defense he loses on everything else...

    I actually like them sharing minutes. It's good I think. It gives Calderon resting time so he can play well for 24 minutes. And it allows Jack to get a rest and understand that he's shooting too much. Plus it allows us to put the best PG out there every night, no fixed starter seems good to me.

    Kleiza is still a bigger body, and a smarter defender than Weems. And DD is far more effective at SG. Weems is not an NBA starter. He is very J.R Smith-y kind of player, but with lesser shot and skillset, if he plays too many minutes he'll just hurt the team. He's good coming off the bench for 20 minutes to give energy and start runs.

    Yes, when DD and Weems and Jack and actually Bargs play together there is a load of chemistry, still doesn't mean Weems should start

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    Kleiza was very inconsistent in Denver I actually watched more than a few Denver games when he played there plus having watched him play in college and in FIBA that's how I know he's not starting NBA SF he's more of a stretch 4. His handles are severely lacking effecting his ability to create off of the bounce. His post game has been inconsistent playing against bigger, faster players than in Europe. His speed, athleticism is lacking at the most athletic position in the NBA- SF. If Kleiza's not making his shots he's a negative on the court in my mind.

    Kleiza 10x better than Weems? Kleiza a smarter defender than Weems? Based on what? Kleiza has looked lost out there on defense alot so far this season. I don't see that at all.

    Kleiza is better suited to come off of the bench especially if Jay wants to implement the TEAM USA defensive particulars that he preached all training camp long. I don't see Kleiza as being able to get out and press up on a consistent basis against wing players.

    If Jay really wants to press up he should insert either Weems or Wright as the starting SF as both are far more athletic plus better defenders than Kleiza in my mind.

    The Jack, Jose pg situation is a certified symbol of Jay's head coaching era: indecisive flip flopping.smh Banks should get a chance especially if Jay's preaching defense as Banks is his best defensive pg bar none. The Rap's aren't winning with Jose backing up Jack. After 20 games if TO has 1,2 or 3 wins Banks should get a shot to play in the rotation in my mind.

    On court Chemistry equals winning basketball that's why I want to see a line up of Dorsey (Davis when healthy), Johnson, Weems, DD & Jack sometime during the game as it's seems like it's always a mix of US and International players on both the 1st and 2nd units messing up the ball movement, defensive rotations and the like.

    Btw- I remember one fastbreak sequence against Portland when both Kleiza and Bargnani ran to the 3 point line instead of to the hoop- I was like wtf? Weems or Wright would have most likely kept running to the hoop in that situation putting pressure on the defense.

  17. #17
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    I don't mind putting Kleiza on the bench, but Weems starting is a real bad idea. Unless he starts but Kleiza plays like Jason Terry and plays big minutes, because Weems playing more than 20-24 minutes is a really bad idea. Really bad.

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    I'm with Joe Panini on this one.
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