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Thread: Johnson Needs to Supplant Evans in Starting Role

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    Default Johnson Needs to Supplant Evans in Starting Role

    The title says it all. If you have watched the last few games you will see our rebounding is solid, but our offense is faltering. Turnovers are also an issue.

    When I think of ball bobbling, butter fingered moves, I think of Reggie. I love the guy, he is a rebounding machine, BUT, what does he do with the rebs?

    He is a void on offense as well. Last night Jack twice tried to feed him down low- both times he bobbled the ball and lost it to the other team. He misses wide open layups and dunks. He is a big time liablity down low.

    Personally, i would be fine if Amir pulled down 50% less boards then Reg but added a bunch of scoring. He is a beast on pick and roll and has some great transition ability to finish at the rim.

    We signed him for big dough for a reason, lets get this roster right and put Amir in the starting seat.

    Sidenote- what happens when Davis comes back? That could could be a beast down low as well.

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    I guess you missed the last game... our rebounding has been solid because of Reggie Evans. Once teams start making it part of their gameplan to box him out, we quickly become the rebounding team of yesteryears.

    Unless Amir can provide a similar rebounding rate as Reggie Evans, inserting him into the lineup only adds length and speed. While the length is certainly a welcome addition, the first unit plays a slower half-court offense. Amir is much better suited to the second unit.

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    Ok bucko, have you noticed that we have out rebounded our opponents, YET still lost. If Reg rebounds down low on the offensive end he is 50% of the time useless. Dude can't even make a layup. Our rebounding has not brought us victories, we need defensive stops. If he was blocking 4+ shots per game i would agree he is legendary, but all he offers is rebounding confounded by sheer lack of "grip" on the pumpkin.

    I was at the Cleveland game. Reg got an off reb down low. He looked helpless. He literally threw the ball straight up directly in the air...like...not at the basket...straight up.... my gf who knows little about hoops proclaimed " i dont think he's supposed to do that".

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    Raptors Republic Veteran Buddahfan's Avatar
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    Quote Marz wrote: View Post
    I guess you missed the last game... our rebounding has been solid because of Reggie Evans. Once teams start making it part of their gameplan to box him out, we quickly become the rebounding team of yesteryears.

    Unless Amir can provide a similar rebounding rate as Reggie Evans, inserting him into the lineup only adds length and speed. While the length is certainly a welcome addition, the first unit plays a slower half-court offense. Amir is much better suited to the second unit.
    You my friend are a Kool-Aid drinker.

    Rebounding is no doubt important, but scoring and team defense are more important

    Bargnani and Johnson are better on defense than Bargnani and Evans because Johnson give a lot better weak side help than Evans does and because Johnson is longer and can alter more shots than Evans.

    Evans is pretty good defender in short spurts but he is a career 19 mpg guy over 9 seasons in the NBA. He just can't handle over 20 mpg and be effective as a defender.

    On offense he is a horrible liability.

    I am not saying that Johnson should start so people should not think I am going there.

    What I am saying is that Evans should not.

    If people don't like Johnson starting then start Kleiza at PF and Weems at SF. Kleiza can defend the #4 probably better than the #3 and his rebounding will go up if he plays closer to the basket on defense.

    I am not saying that Kleiza should start either.

    However there are a lot better options than Evans.

    Evans Kool Aid drinkers think that if Evans goes off the court the Raptors world will fall apart.

    Last night the Raptors significantly outscored the Warriors when Evans was off the court.

    He was a minus 19 and the Raptors lost only by 7. So they were a plus 12 when he was off the court.
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    Super Moderator MangoKid's Avatar
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    Maybe if you'd stop your Kool-Aid nonsense for a bit, you'd realize that if we feature Reggie a bit more, we could possibly get a better deal for him. Johnson's already locked up and the first big off the bench. He's good in that role for now.

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    Buddy...I care about WINS. I am a fan of the team and the players DESERVE a win and soon. They shouldnt be f***ed over by management trying to showcase their mediocre talent like Evans for future trade considerations.

    Bargs and Johnson work much better in tandem, and Amir can be a legit scoring presence down low. He needs more starting minutes. I like the idea above of Kleiza at the 4 as well.

    Am I the only one who is tired of watching Triano put out ridiculous lineups in times of desperation. We need to start Amir and for that matter Barbosa to give us an immediate offensive advantage and build leads. Tired of watching us dig ourselves out of holes.

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    Super Moderator MangoKid's Avatar
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    Quote Multipaul wrote: View Post
    Buddy...I care about WINS. I am a fan of the team and the players DESERVE a win and soon. They shouldnt be f***ed over by management trying to showcase their mediocre talent like Evans for future trade considerations.

    Bargs and Johnson work much better in tandem, and Amir can be a legit scoring presence down low. He needs more starting minutes. I like the idea above of Kleiza at the 4 as well.

    Am I the only one who is tired of watching Triano put out ridiculous lineups in times of desperation. We need to start Amir and for that matter Barbosa to give us an immediate offensive advantage and build leads. Tired of watching us dig ourselves out of holes.
    You're not getting wins this year. Sorry. Just ain't happening. If you were expecting this team to come close to the playoffs, you're going to be really disappointed.

    It sucks that we're losing, but I don't believe that if we canned Triano in favour of someone else that the light would automatically turn on and we'd play better. The talent just isn't there.. yet. Amir needs to be eased into that starting role if you're going to start him. He's still foul-prone. ANd to start jumping on Barbosa to be giving you more offense - the guy is playing with a badly hurt wrist that needs surgery. The guy can hardly shoot.

    We're at least a couple of years away from being competitive enough to reach the playoffs and make some noise.

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    Okay, Amir needs to start ahead of Evans. THAT IS COMPLETELY UP TO AMIR. As for wanting to start Reggie, that is just outrageous. It's different having to start Reggie, but now people want to start him? Yes he can rebounds, and he looks like an awesome caveman, but he is more of a liability on everything apart rebounding, yes his offense is worse than Bargnani's defense. We need Amir to start. And putting him on to boost trade value doesn't really work. GM's aren't idiots. If we trade him, it will be to a contender, and contenders only trade scrap pieces so most likely we won't get anything unless we decide to take on another bad contract. Reggie is in his final year, let it expire then re-sign him ala Jerome James :P

    If anyone really thinks starting Reggie over Amir is right, you gotta get yourself checked. If Amir can stay on court, he can rebound just as well as Reggie, and with Amir on the court it gives more room for Andrea, DeMar and whoever else is on the court, because with Reggie we played 4 on 5 offense, which killed us.

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    An awesome caveman...That was awesome!

    I agree with u man. Furthermore, Amir's skillset will only blossom with more playing time in the starting, high pressure role. Let him earn his bucks. There is no way in hell some dude like Demar deserves to start if Amir can't. Hell i personally think Weems should be starting as well.

    Amir might not look like a caveman, but he looks kinda like that japanese Monchichi monkey faced cartoon, but only the tattooed ghetto crack addict for -a-mama version

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    The reason why I like Reggie starting is that he sets a tone. He's that bruiser, a guy that outworks his opponent. You know you're in for a battle when he's in the game. Nothing's gonna come easy.

    Putting him on to showcase him does work in some cases. In Reggie's case, people will stand up and take notice that he still has that grit, toughness and rebounding prowlessness that's been his calling card. And it's been important for him to show that after last season and the injury he had.

    As long as Evans can start out strong, I'd keep him as the starter.

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    Quote Multipaul wrote: View Post
    An awesome caveman...That was awesome!

    I agree with u man. Furthermore, Amir's skillset will only blossom with more playing time in the starting, high pressure role. Let him earn his bucks. There is no way in hell some dude like Demar deserves to start if Amir can't. Hell i personally think Weems should be starting as well.
    Why shouldn't Demar start? Who's better to start at the 2-guard than Demar? Barbosa's hurting. Weems is okay, but not better than Demar.

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    Quote MangoKid wrote: View Post
    The reason why I like Reggie starting is that he sets a tone. He's that bruiser, a guy that outworks his opponent. You know you're in for a battle when he's in the game. Nothing's gonna come easy.

    Putting him on to showcase him does work in some cases. In Reggie's case, people will stand up and take notice that he still has that grit, toughness and rebounding prowlessness that's been his calling card. And it's been important for him to show that after last season and the injury he had.

    As long as Evans can start out strong, I'd keep him as the starter.
    Dude, don't get me wrong, I love him too. But why are we losing? It is our lack of offense. If we have a legit scorer down low in his position we get more points and don't have to dig out of big holes. Realize this- the last few games the only reason we made comebacks is because we had more offensive firepower with his ass nailed to the bench and Amir on the floor rolling to the basket.

    He would work better if we secure a lead and then insert him to protect the boards and rebs.

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    Quote MangoKid wrote: View Post
    Why shouldn't Demar start? Who's better to start at the 2-guard than Demar? Barbosa's hurting. Weems is okay, but not better than Demar.
    I would take a hurting Barbo over Demar starting. He can give us an instant offensive burst and hopefully a lead. I would also take Weems but I think he might be better as a 3 instead of a 2. Demar makes too many mistakes still and always leaves his man on D. Last night GSW made him pay. He does not deserve to start. We need someone with more poise and patience. Demar could explode in a bench role.

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    Super Moderator MangoKid's Avatar
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    Quote Multipaul wrote: View Post
    Dude, don't get me wrong, I love him too. But why are we losing? It is our lack of offense. If we have a legit scorer down low in his position we get more points and don't have to dig out of big holes. Realize this- the last few games the only reason we made comebacks is because we had more offensive firepower with his ass nailed to the bench and Amir on the floor rolling to the basket.

    He would work better if we secure a lead and then insert him to protect the boards and rebs.
    Amir's not really an offensive dynamo. And Amir doesn't really have any polished post moves, so it's not like we're missing out on a offensive beast in the post. There is an upgrade in offense when you put Amir in there over Reggie, but don't kid yourself, the upgrade is marginal at best.

    We're losing because the teams we're playing are better than us. Plain and simple.

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    Quote MangoKid wrote: View Post
    Amir's not really an offensive dynamo. And Amir doesn't really have any polished post moves, so it's not like we're missing out on a offensive beast in the post. There is an upgrade in offense when you put Amir in there over Reggie, but don't kid yourself, the upgrade is marginal at best.

    We're losing because the teams we're playing are better than us. Plain and simple.
    Ok...so the other teams are "better", why don't we play our "better" players then. I can't follow your logic. I assume you are one of those guys who just wants us to tank and get a draft pick. That is your right to feel that way.

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    Quote Multipaul wrote: View Post
    I would take a hurting Barbo over Demar starting. He can give us an instant offensive burst and hopefully a lead. I would also take Weems but I think he might be better as a 3 instead of a 2. Demar makes too many mistakes still and always leaves his man on D. Last night GSW made him pay. He does not deserve to start. We need someone with more poise and patience. Demar could explode in a bench role.
    Barbosa can hardly shoot as it is - and it shows. He should be going in for his surgery. As it is right now, Demar's had to guard Tyreke Evans, Kobe, Brandon Roy, Monta Ellis. Cut the guy some slack!

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    Quote Multipaul wrote: View Post
    Ok...so the other teams are "better", why don't we play our "better" players then. I can't follow your logic. I assume you are one of those guys who just wants us to tank and get a draft pick. That is your right to feel that way.
    I don't know how to put it nicely.. but yeah, we're awful. I've been watching basketball a long, long time. I've been a season ticket holder for 7 seasons, so I've seen the good and bad. Right now, we're bad - not as bad as other seasons, but we're pretty bad nonetheless. It's not like we're holding back our "better" players. I don't expect this team to win. I just expect to them to play full out from whistle to whistle for a full 48 minutes.

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    anytime barbosa shoots a 3, i get this weird feeling that i can only really describe as a "jamario groan"

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    Quote heinz57 wrote: View Post
    anytime barbosa shoots a 3, i get this weird feeling that i can only really describe as a "jamario groan"
    I thought I was the only one.

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    Quote MangoKid wrote: View Post
    Barbosa can hardly shoot as it is - and it shows. He should be going in for his surgery. As it is right now, Demar's had to guard Tyreke Evans, Kobe, Brandon Roy, Monta Ellis. Cut the guy some slack!
    DUDE, this is the NBA. You DO NOT cut people slack. Every team has a tough cover positionally. If Demar wants to be an NBA starter and someone we can lean on he has to man up and get the job done. If he needs slack, he should be sitting on the pine watching someone else who can do a better job and from whom he can learn from. Unfortunately, that person is not currently employed by our team lol!

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