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Harrison Barnes Draft!!!

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  • #46
    @tbihis

    I am very curious now. What would be your plan of attack on improving the Raptors? You have mentioned getting Crawford would be one of the steps...how would you personally go about doing that? What are your other steps? I am all for improving the Raptors and would like to know how you see that best happening?
    http://twitter.com/m_shantz

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    • #47
      Matt52 wrote: View Post
      Very true. There is a season of NCAA to play yet.
      There it is! If you guys remember, Ed Davis was projected to be a Top 5 or even Top 3 pick in this years draft before he got injured. There is still a long season ahead. For all we know, Harrison Barnes' play might dip and he could end up being drafted in the top 10.
      "Don't expect anything unless you give everything."

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      • #48
        Shantz wrote: View Post
        @tbihis

        You make a compelling argument. Trades and FA are certainly a huge component of the game. And no player should be asked to intentionally lose in order to boost up the teams draft value. I agree with you 100% in that department. But to completely ignore the importance that the draft can play in a teams building process is equally negligent.

        You are right; you never know what you are going to get through the draft. But the same can be said through free agency and through trades. I do not like Hedo due to his work ethic...but Phoenix took him through a trade due to the exact same reasons you are giving. Phoenix thought that in Hedo they "knew what they were getting. NBA experience, can play the grind of 82 games, talent level is on paper." Sure, that was a bigger misrepresentation of talent then normal, but that is what they thought. As Raptor fans, we knew what the Suns were getting because we watched him for a year. But every summer there is a team that talks themselves into a trade/signing because they think a veteran can fit in their system well. Sometimes it works out, other times it does not.

        Brandon Bass was supposed to be a game changer in Orlando when they signed him. He was supposed to be a banging PF who would complement Howard and make the Magic even stronger. But he can't beat out Ryan Anderson and has looked (at least for the most part) like a non-factor.


        Trades and FA are not guarantees, just like the draft.

        And as for developing the young guys...we can't ignore the other players. But if we are to bring in a guy like Jamal Crawford (not a fan of that idea that was posted by someone earlier), we are doing the same thing...prioritizing a veteran over a young guy...prioritizing now over tomorrow.

        If a great deal were to come around during the season and give us someone elite, I would love that. But if we are just getting mediocre...I think we can hope for better then that in the long term.

        Even the biggest Boston fans would have to debate whether they would trade their Championships for a chance to have Durant. If we could somehow pull off trades to land 3 great players to carry us...I would jump at that opportunity. But realistically that is just a far off of a chance as securing strong talent in the draft. What are some realistic trades/free agency singing that you would make tbihis that would make this team stronger both for this year and the future?
        im actually not "ignoring the importance" of the draft. like i said, some teams have gotten lucky with it, and im hoping and praying that if the raps do find themselves in a position to draft somebody, that that draft pick turns out to be a beast. what our issue is purposely setting the team to get a high pick in the draft to get harrison barnes, that i disagree with.

        cant argue with that! hahahaha iwas hoping youd never bust out the hedo card. hehehe. no matter how everybody hated hedo, if you compare his season coming off of that magic champioship run against trying to get a high pick in the draft, who wouldnt in their right mind grab hedo? he was 17/5/5 when he hit FA. would you pass on this guy to get a draft pick? i dont think so. we just think hedo is crap now because how it went down in toronto. but what im saying is you acquire the best talent you can right now, give yourself a chance to win now, and not wait for the draft. but yes, i do agree, trade and FA can be a gamble too. but it defintely poses more positives than a draft pick.

        i said my piece on crawford. and yes, you should prioritize now over tomorrow. coz you are not sure what will happen in the future. you make an effort to win now. build a team now.

        i think if they got durant, rivers would have been fired the next season, that was the rumbling up until they got allen and garnett. if they got durant, they wouldnt have gotten garnett and allen, and pierce wouldve requested for a trade to a contender, considering a losing season that durant had with seattle. so i dont know if boston fans are really killing themselves for passing on durant.

        ill think of something, hehehe.

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        • #49
          tbihis wrote: View Post
          oh i dont know, but acquiring a 18pt per game backup who is a capable starter much proven when JJ was injured (25pts, 4reb, 4 ast), a guy who can hit big shots/game winners, who can create his own shot, drive, shoot from the perimeter at almost 50%, who can also shoot the 3, run the break at 30 years old, yes, its a start.

          ive raised my points on kleiza and andersen. sure, include evans.

          fan-base is who keeps the team going. buys tickets, merchandise. i dont think i said let them decide. i said make an effort to win so they wont be pissed. and effort is getting the best players you can get right now, not trying to get lucky when the season is over.

          well, if playing it safe is a mediocrity, then i guess the celts acquiring allen and garnett and winning a championship, lakers getting gasol, ariza and now artest and winning a championship, atlanta getting joe johnson as an FA and making the playoffs, i guess you might consider those achievements as mediocre, since these teams decided to go on a "safe" route and acquire proven nba players. oh and now the heat getting lbj and bosh, proven nba talents as well, could potentially win championships as well. if those you consider as mediocrity, wow, youre a hard man to please!

          i mean if youre thinking that acquiring ONLY crawford is the solution just because i suggested him then i think we've all been smoking something here. if you want me to detail everything for you then, here goes, crawford can be one of the players they acquire but they have to acquire others. the point is, they need to acquire good players now, not wait for the draft.
          Crawford has talent, definitely, but I just don't understand what he would do for this team overall. He's a decent player, but he's a bench player on a contender, so you'd have to do A LOT more than just get him. Do the Raptors have enough pieces to be able to trade for good enough player to make the team a contender? I highly doubt it. At best, you're going to get a couple of borderline all-stars who are probably overpaid. That's really no way to build a contender.

          I question what your ultimate goal would be by acquiring Crawford.

          The Celtics certainly didn't play it safe, and their first attempt was to get Greg Oden or Kevin Durant. When that fell through, they traded their draft pick for an aging veteran and basically gambled everything that they would be able to pry Kevin Garnett away from the T-Wolves. Had Kevin McHale not been a horrible GM, Boston would never have become the contender they have become.
          Read my blog, The Picket Fence. Guaranteed to make you think or your money back!
          Follow me on Twitter.

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          • #50
            My main point is that there needs to be a balance between planning for today and planning for tomorrow. I am not interested in tanking, but I am interested in long term success; no matter how they go about it. If you are merely thinking about today that is how you end up like the Knicks from 2003-2009: bloated contracts, poor character players, poor work ethic, etc.

            If all we are considering is the sheer talent level that we are bringing in then we are missing a big part of the picture. Trying to win now at the expense of the future is not a great move. But if the two can be in balance then a team can find success.
            http://twitter.com/m_shantz

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            • #51
              Shantz wrote: View Post
              My main point is that there needs to be a balance between planning for today and planning for tomorrow. I am not interested in tanking, but I am interested in long term success; no matter how they go about it. If you are merely thinking about today that is how you end up like the Knicks from 2003-2009: bloated contracts, poor character players, poor work ethic, etc.

              If all we are considering is the sheer talent level that we are bringing in then we are missing a big part of the picture. Trying to win now at the expense of the future is not a great move. But if the two can be in balance then a team can find success.
              I agree , but you have to be in a position where you can do that. You can't be a poor team and worry about both winning and building for the future. You can only focus on one thing. Teams that are already pretty good can focus on both.
              Read my blog, The Picket Fence. Guaranteed to make you think or your money back!
              Follow me on Twitter.

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              • #52
                Tim W. wrote: View Post
                I agree , but you have to be in a position where you can do that. You can't be a poor team and worry about both winning and building for the future. You can only focus on one thing. Teams that are already pretty good can focus on both.
                Basically, in a nutshell, Bargs is the best. We have him. We don't need any draft picks. Those are for crybabies like the Clippers and the Wiz.

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                • #53
                  Buddahfan wrote: View Post
                  You can't compare apples and oranges and talent vs potential greatness.

                  Wall, Jennings and T. Evans all control the ball when they are on the court so they are masters of their own scoring destiny. Yes they are all better than DeRozan but how many other teams passed on Jennings? Evans and Wall were drafted higher than DeRozan for good reason.

                  Secondly, DeRozan will become a good NBA player, Griffin is already an all-star level player. If he stays healthy he will be one of the best, if not the best of his generation. No one has ever sanely claimed that DeRozan is as good or as near as good as Griffin. Only a Kool-aid drinker would do that.
                  I don't where you got DeRozan's name from, I was referring to the name in the thread title.

                  It's pretty obvious the team is looking to get younger and to rebuild, tbihis was pretty much stating don't worry about the draft and use the TPE for a top talent. I don't exactly agree. Sure I want to get a nice player with the TPE, but I'd also love the chance at a top 3 pick this season.

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                  • #54
                    Multipaul wrote: View Post
                    Basically, in a nutshell, Bargs is the best. We have him. We don't need any draft picks. Those are for crybabies like the Clippers and the Wiz.
                    You know what, you're right, Bargnani should attract top tier talent every off-season. We'll be champs in no time! Who needs draft picks to build when you have a 7 footer that can hit 3's at an average rate and couldn't rebound a ball if he threw it off the backboard to himself!
                    Last edited by Mack North; Tue Nov 9, 2010, 11:53 PM.

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                    • #55
                      Right now the best player in 2011 is Harrison Barnes....Irving is nice but Barnes is a legit all star franchise player in the waiting,you cant pass on that....Perry Jones right now is 2nd on that list...but barring something crazy this season Harrison is going to be the No 1 pick next year....

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