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  • #16
    tbihis wrote: View Post
    Not sure why you guys are excited about the draft when youre not even sure how these college players are gonna fair in the nba. besides, it takes a rookie a year or two to develop.

    i think the raps need to focus on using the TPE to get a stud. need to trade these soft euro players and get workhorses who know how to bang, take contact and finish at the rim. Trade Kleiza, Andersen, Calderon and Bargnani.

    how about jamal crawford? seems he's available.
    Jamaal Crawford? Really? THAT'S your solution? No thanks.

    And why are you clumping all those players together? Because they're European? That's pretty narrow-minded. Kleiza certainly isn't soft and is one of the tougher players on the team. He initiates contact probably more than any other Raptor. And Andersen? He hasn't shown to be soft. I just think you're incredibly biased, and pretty much wrong.

    As for rookies, some rookies take longer than others, but trying to find a quick solution isn't going to do the franchise any good. You'r obviously simply hoping for a mediocre team immediately rather than a very good one down the road. Personally, I'd rather be patient and build the right way.
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    • #17
      Buddahfan wrote: View Post
      They are in last place because Triano listened to Doug Smith who suggested during the pre-season that Reggie start.

      Plus they had that four game Western road trip. Last season's team which won forty games didn't do much better on their West Coast road trips.

      You can't play four on five on offense continue to lose Q1 and Q3 because of it and expect to win.

      It is as simple as that.
      They are in last place (well, they're actually tied with 5 other teams for last place) because they simply aren't a talented team. It was nice that you were optimistic before the season started, but there was no way this team was ever going to win much more than 30 wins with the roster they have.

      And Triano is starting Reggie for two reasons. One is that he's the only Raptor on the roster who can make up for Bargnani's rebounding deficiencies, and he's also a placeholder for Ed Davis. Reggie Evans isn't as great as some fans seem to think, but he's certainly not the reason the Raptors are losing games.
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      • #18
        Nick wrote: View Post
        What and embarassing thread..
        no shit, eh?

        with 75 games left, we're already talking draft.

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        • #19
          tbihis wrote: View Post
          Not sure why you guys are excited about the draft when youre not even sure how these college players are gonna fair in the nba. besides, it takes a rookie a year or two to develop.

          i think the raps need to focus on using the TPE to get a stud. need to trade these soft euro players and get workhorses who know how to bang, take contact and finish at the rim. Trade Kleiza, Andersen, Calderon and Bargnani.

          how about jamal crawford? seems he's available.
          It doesn't always take a year or two. Tyreke, B. Jennings, Blake Griffin, and John Wall prove this.

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          • #20
            in my mind we NEED to take in order : irving, perry jones/harrison barnes, enes kanter......anything else then were screwed

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            • #21
              Tim W. wrote: View Post
              They are in last place (well, they're actually tied with 5 other teams for last place) because they simply aren't a talented team. It was nice that you were optimistic before the season started, but there was no way this team was ever going to win much more than 30 wins with the roster they have.

              And Triano is starting Reggie for two reasons. One is that he's the only Raptor on the roster who can make up for Bargnani's rebounding deficiencies, and he's also a placeholder for Ed Davis. Reggie Evans isn't as great as some fans seem to think, but he's certainly not the reason the Raptors are losing games.
              You are fixated on the wrong numbers.

              The only numbers that count is whether or not you out score your opponents. Getting more rebounds is one thing that helps but if you aren't doing the other things you need to do to out score your opponents you will lose. It is is as simple as that.

              Since you seem to be hung up on the rebounds.

              Please tell us all.

              1. How many rebounds less per game the Raptors will get if Evans comes off the bench rather than starts.
              2. Than translate those rebounds into points.
              3. Then factor in all of the other things that other players can do better than him against the extra points he gets because of his rebounding as as starter.

              I would love to see you calculations.

              The only numbers that count are the points that your teams scores vs the points that your opponents score. Saying that Raptors would be worse without him starting not only can't be proven but is wrong in my opinion.

              The Raptors were 3 - 0 last season against lottery teams with this starting lineup.

              Barganani
              Johnson
              Calderon
              DeRozan
              Turkoglu

              Do you really think that Turk last season was that much better than Kleiza?
              Avatar: Riverboat Coffee House 134 Yorkville Ave. billboard of upcoming entertainers - Circa 1960s

              Memories some so sweet, indeed

              Larger Photo of the avatar



              “As a captain, I played furiously. I drew a lot of fouls, but I brought everything I had to every practice and to every game. I left everything on the court because I simply wanted the team to win”
              Quote from well known personality who led their high school team to a state championship.

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              • #22
                Mack North wrote: View Post
                It doesn't always take a year or two. Tyreke, B. Jennings, Blake Griffin, and John Wall prove this.
                You can't compare apples and oranges and talent vs potential greatness.

                Wall, Jennings and T. Evans all control the ball when they are on the court so they are masters of their own scoring destiny. Yes they are all better than DeRozan but how many other teams passed on Jennings? Evans and Wall were drafted higher than DeRozan for good reason.

                Secondly, DeRozan will become a good NBA player, Griffin is already an all-star level player. If he stays healthy he will be one of the best, if not the best of his generation. No one has ever sanely claimed that DeRozan is as good or as near as good as Griffin. Only a Kool-aid drinker would do that.
                Avatar: Riverboat Coffee House 134 Yorkville Ave. billboard of upcoming entertainers - Circa 1960s

                Memories some so sweet, indeed

                Larger Photo of the avatar



                “As a captain, I played furiously. I drew a lot of fouls, but I brought everything I had to every practice and to every game. I left everything on the court because I simply wanted the team to win”
                Quote from well known personality who led their high school team to a state championship.

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                • #23
                  Kyrie Iving is the best in the draft...in my opinion

                  There is no number 1 consensus yet.

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                  • #24
                    Matt52 wrote: View Post
                    And what would Crawford do? He is 30 years old and looking for his last contract. His first time in the playoffs was last season. He is a bench player on a good team - not a great team. The only way Crawford is useful is as an expiring contract.
                    oh ok, sorry, i guess we should be aiming for something bigger then. how about we make a play for carmelo? or maybe bosh again since he's come out and said "i get lost out there" playing with D-wade and Lebron. Or shit, while we're at this, maybe BC should make an offer for Chris Paul, Dwight Howard and Rondo. Realistically speaking.

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                    • #25
                      JoePanini wrote: View Post
                      LOL. Trade Kleiza, Anderson, Calderon and Bargnani who have all been playing pretty decently, for Jamal. Nice.
                      Kleiza - 12pts, 3 rebs, 1 ast GUARD-FORWARD
                      Anderson - 4 / 3 / 0.7
                      Calderon - 6 / 2 / 5
                      Bargnani - 19 / 4 / 1 Franchise player, CENTER

                      oh yeah. theyre all playing decently.

                      Yeah trade all 4 for Jamal's 10mil salary. that makes absolute sense. if that what you think i was implying. str8 up 4-1 trade. try it on espn trade machine. or nba live.

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                      • #26
                        Buddahfan wrote: View Post
                        You are fixated on the wrong numbers.

                        The only numbers that count is whether or not you out score your opponents. Getting more rebounds is one thing that helps but if you aren't doing the other things you need to do to out score your opponents you will lose. It is is as simple as that.

                        Since you seem to be hung up on the rebounds.

                        Please tell us all.

                        1. How many rebounds less per game the Raptors will get if Evans comes off the bench rather than starts.
                        2. Than translate those rebounds into points.
                        3. Then factor in all of the other things that other players can do better than him against the extra points he gets because of his rebounding as as starter.

                        I would love to see you calculations.

                        The only numbers that count are the points that your teams scores vs the points that your opponents score. Saying that Raptors would be worse without him starting not only can't be proven but is wrong in my opinion.

                        The Raptors were 3 - 0 last season against lottery teams with this starting lineup.

                        Barganani
                        Johnson
                        Calderon
                        DeRozan
                        Turkoglu

                        Do you really think that Turk last season was that much better than Kleiza?
                        I'm not fixated on rebounds, but the fact is that Bargnani is a liability on the boards and on the defensive end and Reggie makes up for that. Is it the perfect solution? Hell no, but it's one of a few possibilities. There's no right or wrong solution. Having Amir start means that the bench would have problems scoring. Triano obviously believes that pairing Reggie and Bargnani make up for each other's weaknesses, while no compromising the bench.

                        I think when Ed Davis eventually moves into the starting lineup, it will improve.

                        As for the team's record with that starting lineup, are you really going to make judgements based on such a small sample size? Also, DeRozan only started one of those games. Weems started the other two, and Calderon started one. In fact of the three wins where Johnson started, not one lineup happened more than once.

                        Also, since when do the starters decide whether or not a team wins? How many times last season did the Raptors get behind by double digits in the first quarter only to be saved by the bench? And the starters had Bosh AND Bargnani in the starting lineup.
                        Read my blog, The Picket Fence. Guaranteed to make you think or your money back!
                        Follow me on Twitter.

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                        • #27
                          KakashiPrince wrote: View Post
                          Kyrie Iving is the best in the draft...in my opinion

                          There is no number 1 consensus yet.
                          Really, because all the draft sites list Harrison Barnes as the consensus #1 pick at this point. Obviously that may change, but right now it's Barnes.

                          I think the worst thing the Raptors can do is be fixated on a PG because it's a position where the team often struggles, at least defensively.
                          Read my blog, The Picket Fence. Guaranteed to make you think or your money back!
                          Follow me on Twitter.

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                          • #28
                            Tim W. wrote: View Post
                            Jamaal Crawford? Really? THAT'S your solution? No thanks.

                            And why are you clumping all those players together? Because they're European? That's pretty narrow-minded. Kleiza certainly isn't soft and is one of the tougher players on the team. He initiates contact probably more than any other Raptor. And Andersen? He hasn't shown to be soft. I just think you're incredibly biased, and pretty much wrong.

                            As for rookies, some rookies take longer than others, but trying to find a quick solution isn't going to do the franchise any good. You'r obviously simply hoping for a mediocre team immediately rather than a very good one down the road. Personally, I'd rather be patient and build the right way.
                            Not a solution, but its a start. Crawford averaged 18pts last year playing behind Joe Johnson. imagine what he can do if he's a starter and playing 35mins a game.

                            Nope, not because theyre european. see my earlier post.

                            i dont think the fan-base share your sentiments. being patient and building the right way might take 1-10 years. i was listening to paul jones and eric smith last night after the game and one guy called in and said the raps should just keep losing to get a high pick next draft. these 2 basketball experts said that draft is a "luck of the draw". cant be even 60% sure with the draft. getting an experienced baller is a little bit safer way to go dont you think?

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                            • #29
                              Personally it seems that looking forward to the draft and following top-tier talent is not a negative as a Raptors fan. If we are intentionally cheering against the team in the hope of getting better talent, then that is a little weak. This year is not necessarily about winning lots of games...this year is about starting some development in different areas. Lets see what Andrea can do, lets see how Demar develops, hopefully lets see what Ed Davis can bring to the table, lets see if Amir can learn to play with a bit more control (less fouls), etc.

                              If our young guys are getting an opportunities to develop and we are losing, then that is just fine. Losing and moving backwards are not the same things. If we were to try to patch together a team using some trade chips and the TPE to get some overpaid veterans for the short term...then that is moving backwards.

                              I am of course cheering for the Raptors to win every single game...but I would rather us lose in the short term in order to gain in the long term, then win in the short term and damage our long term assets.

                              Hopefully we can use one or two of our expiring contracts (Banks $4.75 million, Barbosa $7.6 million (player option for next year), and Evans $5.08 million) to gain another young asset and a pick.

                              Assuming things continue the way they currently are, it is likely that we would have a high draft pick of our own. If we are able to gain another first round pick through expiring contracts, it might be possible to move that along with Miami's first rounder to move up in the draft.

                              These are all long shots and may not be entirely possible, but with two high draft picks added to our young core we could have a solid group to develop together. And then, after the draft, would be the time to use the TPE. No quick fixes that will hurt us in the long run.

                              Going through the draft is not a sure thing, but neither is going through free agency. This summer everyone was praising what the Bucks did in going out and adding to their team. Currently the Bucks are 2-5. I am certainly not saying that they will stay that way (they should certainly improve), but adding pieces through free agency is no guarantee either.
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                              • #30
                                Mack North wrote: View Post
                                It doesn't always take a year or two. Tyreke, B. Jennings, Blake Griffin, and John Wall prove this.
                                oh yeah, sorry i forgot those

                                tyreke - ROY, kings? bottom feeders
                                jennings - playoffs 1st round exit
                                griffin - clippers? yikes
                                john wall - 1 win in 6 games
                                oh and you forgot d. rose - barely made the playoffs last year.

                                developing is not just scoring pts and putting up stats. developing is being able to create chemistry with your teammates, knowing when to pass or shoot, making your teammates better. case and point, kevin durant. started out with a good year, monster sophomore then playoffs taking the lakers to game 7. now thats development. how many years? 3.

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