Demar Lost us the Game Last Night

[TheGloveinRapsUniform]

Your joking right??? if you dont watch the game you cant have the slightest clue why tey lost. that one turnover didint loose the game for the raps (unless your speaking literally) I watched the game and if not for Andrea we would have been blown out. I think the last play was a foul on Bargnani. jackson got alot of wrist and a little bit of ball. Bad call by the refs IMO. The Cats were in the penalty and if Bargs got that foul called the game would have ended with a W.

i agree. a play like that in a crucial possession, nobody can get a clean steal on an NBA player. thats just impossible. even if araujo was holding the ball with 10 seconds to go (rather impossible but just for reference, hehehe) you wont be able to get a clean steal off of him. its the NBA, no player is that dumb. 100% foul. The refs just wanted to go home early.

[TheGloveinRapsUniform]

How did Bargs get brought into this thread?

TimW/Nubreed/Trife76: grow up, you act like pathetic little children. You probably have never played a basketball game in your life. Go back to playing Starcraft and jerking off to CB4's DVD and leave us all alone.

+ 1 zillion. if there's a number higher i would use it.

[TheGloveinRapsUniform]

Thats funny..i was saying that right after as he stood there and did nothing with about 8 seconds left on the clock....but thats him,he's a lazy ass who doesnt hustle after loose balls and things of that nature...losing player in every sense of the word.

i did think it was a bad possession and it was totally bargs fault, but he didnt just stand there, he tried to reach for the ball but Jax caught his wrist so he couldnt react right away. i think its a lesson learned for him. how many times did you see him actually have the ball in crunch time? last time was when he sunk that game-tying 3 in boston. couple more and he'll do fine.

[TheGloveinRapsUniform]

i mean no offense, sir.. when anybody is critical of any player other than bargs, the same anti-bargs voices ALWAYS have to pipe in with their anti-bargs BS.

im not a massive fan of bargs either, nor do i care for a good portion of multipaul's posts.. but when i click on a thread that i think is going to be about derozan's deficiencies and its turned into the exact same people trying to railroad it into a bargs hate thread, i gotta ask myself... who's the bigger troll? the troll, or the dudes trolling the troll?

dont want to talk about demar's flaws? don't click on the demar thread
want to talk about bargs? start a bargs thread
want to avoid an argument with somebody you consider a "troll"? don't engage him

simple rules... yet everyone seems to break them

i have to agree. i think some guys here are deliberately putting hate on bargs, i mean you can state an opinion, but if you hype the situation by curving what actually happened, then thats not good post-ing. you said it best heinz - "y'all do love deflecting topics to serve your own hate". i couldnt have said it any better

[Arsenalist]

What a night, what a night.

So I'm sitting at Hoops watching the game last night (went to the Real Sports Bar and EVERY screen was playing the Leafs game, motherf*ckers)

Late in the game we had the lead. Ju Ju was playing some great ball, a little sloppy, but 110% energy.

THEN

Triano inexplicably subs Demar back into the game.

I looked at my friends and thought- we just lost the game.

Low and behold.....we get crushed.

Demar has no business being on the floor in crunch time, furthermore starting. He has lots of potential, but his lack of basketball IQ and defensive inefficiency guarding premier players is a liabiliy for this team (he was owned by Jackson and co. all night).

So I think Demar lost us the game. I guess we could actually blame Triano..he is the douche that subbed him back in.

Not sure if DeMar lost us the game, but he did have a terrible one. He has confidence issues and rightfully so, he's got no unused-dribble move, has a shitty jumper, and can't track other twos. Add it all up an you have the recipe for nights like last night, this is made worse by who is guarding him - Stephen Jackson, one of the best defenders in the league.

Remember his performance against the Lakers, right now this guy is in the lineup only because he's got potential to be good. I have no problem with DeMar playing minutes despite struggling, it's best to find out in the first 2-3 years whether this guy is worth hanging on to and extending, much better than signing him long-term and then hoping for him to develop.

[heinz57]

If this thread was started by ANYONE else, I would think it was a legitimate attempt to start a discussion. Multipaul, though, has chastised anyone who criticizes Bargnani as someone who hates Toronto and isn't a fan. He has said that if you criticize a Raptor player you must hate the Raptors. Well, he's doing exactly that to DeRozan.

so i was right.

your contribution to this thread is trolling the troll. making you a bigger troll.

seriously man, i've seen alot of your posts, and i honestly appreciate your input in alot of cases.. even when i completely disagree with you, you generally approach your arguments in a logical and concise way.. and i'm not such a closed minded person to ignore an legitimate argument that contradicts my own opinion

and believe me... i get where you're coming from... there's board members who i LOATHE reading...

so i stay away from their threads and posts.

i'm sure people hate reading me go ape shit hate crazy when it comes to chris bosh... but i keep that to chris bosh threads..

but for god's sake... man up, dude... you dont have to engage multipaul.. take the high road

[Multipaul]

If this thread was started by ANYONE else, I would think it was a legitimate attempt to start a discussion. Multipaul, though, has chastised anyone who criticizes Bargnani as someone who hates Toronto and isn't a fan. He has said that if you criticize a Raptor player you must hate the Raptors. Well, he's doing exactly that to DeRozan.

I don't have a problem with any player being criticized as long as it is done thoughtfully and with class. What I don't like is when people are hypocrites.

As for keeping threads on topic, that's a bit unrealistic. Basketball is not played in a vacuum. It's incredibly difficult to discuss a player without bringing up any other players. Like it or not, Bargnani is a big part of the team and has a very big effect on the team. Sure, he's probably discussed too much, but it's a topic that sparks conversation, so it's not surprising it's going to be brought up a lot.

Personally, I bring up other players when I feel it's warranted. And if I don't feel I have anything to add, I don't comment. I didn't make one comment on the Bargnani appreciation thread because I didn't feel it was appropriate.

Now, I usually don't respond to Multipaul because he generally just talks nonsense, but sometimes it's difficult not to call someone out when they are saying something or behaving in a way that you find unreasonable.

Tim, if you would like to personal message me with more venom and vitriol please feel free to do so. Your ambition to belitlle my posts and my comments only diminishes your credibility and nullifies the validity of most of your statements. Yes, I am a Bargs fan, but this post has nothing to do with Bargs.

I see your contribution to this thread as nothing more than attempt to agitate me and misdirect the premise of this posting to service your own self hating vendetta against Toronto and our team.

I have read your blog, it isn't bad, and surprisingly, is far less negative than most of your contributions here. If you could migrate some of the skills you present on your blog to this forum you might help reestablish yourself as a legitimate poster who has something worthwhile to say.

Again....still no thoughts from you on Demar or this post though.

[TheGloveinRapsUniform]

I think this is a perfect example of what happens when a team starts losing, even fans get in on the action!

i agree:

bargs lost the game for us
derozan was shitty, but still has game, basketball iq not too high

dont agree:

bargnani is crap
anger and name-calling

i think its one think to say "this player sucks" and another thing to say "this player sucks, but he's scoring, etc".
I think if you keep pointing out the negatives and none of the positives, you do HATE the guy. saying you dont hate bargs when youve said nothing but negative, then you are being hypocritical. and you can relate Bargs on this post, demar being shitty all night does not correlate to bargs losing the ball to jackson. unless theyre in the movie stuck on you.

[Multipaul]

Derozans defense, or lack there of, is what cost us the game. What if Bargs missed the 3 pt shot, is it still his fault we lost? We should never have lost the lead. The downward spiral unfolded when JuJu was pulled off for Demar.

[Buddahfan]

+ 1 zillion. if there's a number higher i would use it.

Isn't Godzillion (spelling modified)



greater than a zillion?

[Quest]

This whole argument is retarded. Blaming any one person for the outcome of an entire game is pointless. You could make up the margin of defeat by analyzing any number of plays made or missed throughout the game. It sucks that the last memory you have is of Bargs getting stripped, but the whole team let it slip and even Demar only played his part. Rationalizing some alternate outcome is just a math/stat game and doesn't take into account the complexity of a live performance.
Besides they were down by three with 12 seconds left when Bargnani took the pass, meaning at that point they were already loosing. All they had was a chance to win and they didn't. This type of loss is really just the accumulation of poor decisions and missed executions to the point where you take yourself out of it. This isn't the first time this year that they beat themselves all the way down the stretch... looking back and saying we should have done different stuff is one thing, good point, but scrutinizing a single play is totally meaningless. If Bargs gets the shot off and it rims out, is that any closer to winning?

[Tim W.]

Tim, if you would like to personal message me with more venom and vitriol please feel free to do so. Your ambition to belitlle my posts and my comments only diminishes your credibility and nullifies the validity of most of your statements. Yes, I am a Bargs fan, but this post has nothing to do with Bargs.

I see your contribution to this thread as nothing more than attempt to agitate me and misdirect the premise of this posting to service your own self hating vendetta against Toronto and our team.

I have read your blog, it isn't bad, and surprisingly, is far less negative than most of your contributions here. If you could migrate some of the skills you present on your blog to this forum you might help reestablish yourself as a legitimate poster who has something worthwhile to say.

Again....still no thoughts from you on Demar or this post though.

I did a quick search and here are a few examples in which Multipaul insults me despite me not replying or mentioning him in any comment on the thread:

Tim W. wrote: (to someone else)
You don't think four years is a chance? It's four years and we have seen barely any improvement in the defense and rebounding departments. Neither his defense nor his rebounding should be affected by the number of shots he takes. How long exactly should we give him? Another four years?

Haters

You guys are OK with "giving Demar a chance" though. His #'s and skillz aint sh*t compared to Bargs. Gimme a break.

Trife76=TimW=SirChillyMost=

You guys are too much, you post this crap with the intent to turn it into another Bargs hating forum. All you Raptors/Bargs haters should go post on the Miami Heat board. Tim W is the site admin there so he can hook u up with free logins

Another pointless thread for faux-raptors fans to whine and bitch about.

Tim W= Chris Bosh
Vinnie paz= lebron james

you guys should check out www.miamiheat.com, you will be more appreciated there.

We ALL know bargs is easily a top 10 centre in the league, if not a top 10 player.

And here are a few examples in which Multipaul brings up Bargnani in a thread that is not about him and his name had not been mentioned:

Hibbert sucks, statistically speaking bargs is like 10x better than him.

Bargs, Toronto's TRUE all star

Exactly, all these CB fanatics will actually have to study the game of basketball and "witness" how a real all star performs. This is the Bargs era, Raptors goin all the way now.

I know it is not "fair" to forecast based on summer league, but I would say that this year our top guys will be Derozan, Bargs, and either Weems/Johnson (in terms of young talent, who knows if BC will bring anyone else on board for real this time..man...chandler would've been nice here)

We should boo bosh more than Turk. Bosh ruined our franchise for 7 years, Turk for only one. I will boo them both alot, but the Bosh boos will be from a much deeper pit of despisal.

I hope Bargs puts Bosh in an Anderson Silva triangle and makes him cry like the tranny wanker he is.

And I've now got him on ignore, so I won't read any reply. Sorry.

[Multipaul]

Tim, kudos on your due diligence.

Still no comment about Demar though?

[heinz57]

And I've now got him on ignore, so I won't read any reply. Sorry.

good call, man. im not trying to defend him or anything, but fighting fire with fire is usually a retarded idea... it just results in a crapload of fire.

[TheGloveinRapsUniform]

I did a quick search and here are a few examples in which Multipaul insults me despite me not replying or mentioning him in any comment on the thread:

And here are a few examples in which Multipaul brings up Bargnani in a thread that is not about him and his name had not been mentioned:

And I've now got him on ignore, so I won't read any reply. Sorry.

dig deep and bring out the big guns!

[heinz57]

Tim, kudos on your due diligence.

Still no comment about Demar though?

i think he put you on ignore

[Multipaul]

i think he put you on ignore

what does that mean?

[heinz57]

what does that mean?

he cant see anything you post

[Multipaul]

he cant see anything you post

Oh..but if you re post my stuff, than can he see?

[Buddahfan]

This whole argument is retarded. Blaming any one person for the outcome of an entire game is pointless. You could make up the margin of defeat by analyzing any number of plays made or missed throughout the game. It sucks that the last memory you have is of Bargs getting stripped, but the whole team let it slip and even Demar only played his part. Rationalizing some alternate outcome is just a math/stat game and doesn't take into account the complexity of a live performance.
Besides they were down by three with 12 seconds left when Bargnani took the pass, meaning at that point they were already loosing. All they had was a chance to win and they didn't. This type of loss is really just the accumulation of poor decisions and missed executions to the point where you take yourself out of it. This isn't the first time this year that they beat themselves all the way down the stretch... looking back and saying we should have done different stuff is one thing, good point, but scrutinizing a single play is totally meaningless. If Bargs gets the shot off and it rims out, is that any closer to winning?

Your statement assumes that all the Toronto players who played had a negative contribution to the Raptors winning that game or had a negative contribution during the 2nd half of the 4th quarter.

That statement is simply not correct.

If you had all players contributing negatively then they would have lost by a lot more than they did.