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Thread: Raptors Interested in Jason Thompson

  1. #21
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote Brandon wrote: View Post
    I'd like to try to dispel this notion that Reggie Evans is playing well. It's true he is rebounding better than anyone in basketball. It's true he is an exciting player to watch because of his mannerisms. But there is more to the game than rebounding. And Reggie doesn't do any of the rest of it well.

    First of all, Reggie has the lowest shooting percentage on the team. He's taken 29 shots and made 6. He is shooting 44% from the foul line. Even taking so few shots and touching the ball so infrequently on offense, his turnover percentage (offensive possessions per 100 that end in a turnover by that player) is 17.8, which is pretty shockingly high for a guy that only likes to rebound. He has the second-lowest offensive rating amongst the regulars, (Kleiza has been worse, no doubt due to his being injured), as well as having a negative offensive win share. Evans's offensive rating is a full 10 points per 100 possessions below the Raptors at large (94/104.8).

    Now to the rebounds. Yes, rebounding helps a lot. One of the reasons the Raps have been in a lot of games is their best-in-the-league offensive rebounding. And the Raptors are a plus rebounding team with Evans in there. But, a lot of big men can rebound the ball. And Evans is grabbing more rebounds than he ever has before because he has little competition from his own teammates. Particularly you-know-who, starting at center beside him in the front court. Any good rebounder playing in the same position would likely grab a lot of boards, including Jason Thompson, who doesn't have any of Evans's weaknesses.

    In addition to his aforementioned weaknesses, Evans is too short for his position, at 6'8". Some players, like Charles Oakley, have overcome that weakness. Evans has had more than enough time in his career to do so, and has failed. The Raptors need a huge, wide-bodied shot blocker to play beside Bargnani, to hide the latter's weaknesses and maximize his strengths. Evans isn't close to being that thing.

    The worrisome thing about Evans is his personal mannerisms and style on the court, which I would describe as frantic, emphatic, exaggerated and chaotic, are seductive and insidious in their way of convincing fans that everything good that's happening is being caused or facilitated by Evans. In sum, don't let Evans's "Hulk Hogan" act fool you into thinking he's doing more to help the team than he really is.
    That is a well put response. I would tend to agree. His long term future is not with the Raptors. IMO his trade value will not get higher than now or possibly 3 days before trade deadline.

    I would most certainly prefer Thompson to Evans. Thompson is average 4.7rebs in 15 mins. Last year he averaged 8.5 in 30. He shoots near 50% and he does have outside range. He would be a phenomenal back up C.

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    http://www.brightsideofthesun.com/20...t-should-we-do

    Link is about Thompson to Suns. Gives an idea of what another team might/could offer who could definitely use him.

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    Quote Brandon wrote: View Post
    I'd like to try to dispel this notion that Reggie Evans is playing well. It's true he is rebounding better than anyone in basketball. It's true he is an exciting player to watch because of his mannerisms. But there is more to the game than rebounding. And Reggie doesn't do any of the rest of it well.

    First of all, Reggie has the lowest shooting percentage on the team. He's taken 29 shots and made 6. He is shooting 44% from the foul line. Even taking so few shots and touching the ball so infrequently on offense, his turnover percentage (offensive possessions per 100 that end in a turnover by that player) is 17.8, which is pretty shockingly high for a guy that only likes to rebound. He has the second-lowest offensive rating amongst the regulars, (Kleiza has been worse, no doubt due to his being injured), as well as having a negative offensive win share. Evans's offensive rating is a full 10 points per 100 possessions below the Raptors at large (94/104.8).

    Now to the rebounds. Yes, rebounding helps a lot. One of the reasons the Raps have been in a lot of games is their best-in-the-league offensive rebounding. And the Raptors are a plus rebounding team with Evans in there. But, a lot of big men can rebound the ball. And Evans is grabbing more rebounds than he ever has before because he has little competition from his own teammates. Particularly you-know-who, starting at center beside him in the front court. Any good rebounder playing in the same position would likely grab a lot of boards, including Jason Thompson, who doesn't have any of Evans's weaknesses.

    In addition to his aforementioned weaknesses, Evans is too short for his position, at 6'8". Some players, like Charles Oakley, have overcome that weakness. Evans has had more than enough time in his career to do so, and has failed. The Raptors need a huge, wide-bodied shot blocker to play beside Bargnani, to hide the latter's weaknesses and maximize his strengths. Evans isn't close to being that thing.

    The worrisome thing about Evans is his personal mannerisms and style on the court, which I would describe as frantic, emphatic, exaggerated and chaotic, are seductive and insidious in their way of convincing fans that everything good that's happening is being caused or facilitated by Evans. In sum, don't let Evans's "Hulk Hogan" act fool you into thinking he's doing more to help the team than he really is.
    Would you believe me if I told you that some people on this forum actually think that Evans shouldn't be traded and that Amir shouldn't replace him in the starting line-up.

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    Raptors Republic Rookie YKR23's Avatar
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    i wouldnt mind this at all. if we happen to acquire him, hes another young piece that can grow and mesh with demar and weems. sooo i wud acutally like to see him with the red white and black colours on

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    I do believe this is a pure salary dump move and if that's the case then Toronto might be the front runner to recieve this because of the PTE.

    Toronto might actually be able to land Thopmson without trading anybody. I say go for it, Thompson will be more useful next season when Reggie and Andersen come off the books.

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    Quote Brandon wrote: View Post

    In addition to his aforementioned weaknesses, Evans is too short for his position, at 6'8". Some players, like Charles Oakley, have overcome that weakness. Evans has had more than enough time in his career to do so, and has failed. The Raptors need a huge, wide-bodied shot blocker to play beside Bargnani, to hide the latter's weaknesses and maximize his strengths. Evans isn't close to being that thing.
    And how has Oakley overcome that weakness?
    He is neither a shot-blocker(career 0.3 bpg) nor a more productive player (career 13.4 PER vs. Reggie's 11.5). His offensive game may be more polished but Reggie is without a doubt, the better rebounder.

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    if the dude is behind darnell 'lacktion' jackson in the depth chart of a pretty bad team (albeit one with a bright future), i can't say i'm all that excited at the prospect of acquiring him.

    what makes BC think he'd crack the rotation of reggie, the 34 million dollar man, davis when we get him back, and occasionally kleiza? sounds like a lateral move at best

  8. #28
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    Evans has the ability to be a very good back up. His offense is awful sure but I think it would look slightly better against other teams bench players and he does bring great rebounding. If we can get a good deal for him, and we should since he's expiring,by all means take it but at the moment I see no reason to have a fire sale. He definitely should not be starting,but that's another kettle of fish.
    Reggie does bring hustle and some extra leadership to this team and I think you shouldn't undervalue that, especially on a team that lacks a veteran presence. I'm all for keeping him until the trade deadline then trying to leverage his expiring into a good piece. Then we can resign him for the veteran's minimum later if we still want him.
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    Quote Prime wrote: View Post
    And how has Oakley overcome that weakness?
    He is neither a shot-blocker(career 0.3 bpg) nor a more productive player (career 13.4 PER vs. Reggie's 11.5). His offensive game may be more polished but Reggie is without a doubt, the better rebounder.
    You're counting many years after Oakley's prime in the PER total. Oakley was not only a much more polished offensive player, but was a brilliant post defender, one of the best ever. Shot blocking is not the only defensive skill a defender has to have. Oakley was sturdy and strong as a bull. He imposed his will on the offensive player.

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    Yes, but Reggie is a capable post defender in his right and if we're comparing attributes, Reggie is about as physical as they get.

    Also, Oakley wasn't that much better on the offensive end. In fact, I'm pretty sure Oak has had some Reggie-esque moments. For example, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-mNe9nYicY
    It's very possible that some of his stats are inflated since he was always playing on winning teams that had a legit #1 and #2 options.

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    Quote JoePanini wrote: View Post
    Give them Reggie. I know, sounds crazy, but how about we get Thompson and a first round pick for Reggie and Banks. With their roster pretty much full, maybe all they want is more cap-room?
    in what world does a developing team give up a 1st round pick for 2 expiring contracts who are reggie evans and marcus banks ?

  12. #32
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    Quote Brandon wrote: View Post
    I'd like to try to dispel this notion that Reggie Evans is playing well. It's true he is rebounding better than anyone in basketball. It's true he is an exciting player to watch because of his mannerisms. But there is more to the game than rebounding. And Reggie doesn't do any of the rest of it well.

    First of all, Reggie has the lowest shooting percentage on the team. He's taken 29 shots and made 6. He is shooting 44% from the foul line. Even taking so few shots and touching the ball so infrequently on offense, his turnover percentage (offensive possessions per 100 that end in a turnover by that player) is 17.8, which is pretty shockingly high for a guy that only likes to rebound. He has the second-lowest offensive rating amongst the regulars, (Kleiza has been worse, no doubt due to his being injured), as well as having a negative offensive win share. Evans's offensive rating is a full 10 points per 100 possessions below the Raptors at large (94/104.8).

    Now to the rebounds. Yes, rebounding helps a lot. One of the reasons the Raps have been in a lot of games is their best-in-the-league offensive rebounding. And the Raptors are a plus rebounding team with Evans in there. But, a lot of big men can rebound the ball. And Evans is grabbing more rebounds than he ever has before because he has little competition from his own teammates. Particularly you-know-who, starting at center beside him in the front court. Any good rebounder playing in the same position would likely grab a lot of boards, including Jason Thompson, who doesn't have any of Evans's weaknesses.

    In addition to his aforementioned weaknesses, Evans is too short for his position, at 6'8". Some players, like Charles Oakley, have overcome that weakness. Evans has had more than enough time in his career to do so, and has failed. The Raptors need a huge, wide-bodied shot blocker to play beside Bargnani, to hide the latter's weaknesses and maximize his strengths. Evans isn't close to being that thing.

    The worrisome thing about Evans is his personal mannerisms and style on the court, which I would describe as frantic, emphatic, exaggerated and chaotic, are seductive and insidious in their way of convincing fans that everything good that's happening is being caused or facilitated by Evans. In sum, don't let Evans's "Hulk Hogan" act fool you into thinking he's doing more to help the team than he really is.
    I have to disagree with some of what your saying here. Yes Reggie doesn't score much but he sets solid screen which lead to baskets which in my books are just as good as points.

    Unless we are trading jack for Jason Or banks for Jason I don't see the point in bring him in. Just me when I say Davis, alabi, and wright are enough to protect the paint.

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    Quote grindhouse wrote: View Post
    I have to disagree with some of what your saying here. Yes Reggie doesn't score much but he sets solid screen which lead to baskets which in my books are just as good as points.

    Unless we are trading jack for Jason Or banks for Jason I don't see the point in bring him in. Just me when I say Davis, alabi, and wright are enough to protect the paint.
    On the first point, if Evans were creating points for other players while on the floor, his offensive rating would show it. Offensive rating is a Dean Oliver sabermetric stat that calculates points scored per 100 possessions while that player is on the court. So it is the influence that player has on the offense, not necessarily the points directly scored by that player. Take for example my favourite player Joakim Noah. he's playing 40 minutes, taking only 11 shots, and is hardly the picture of a polished offensive player. He sets awesome screens, doesn't turn it over and passes well. His shots are mostly the kinds of putbacks that Evans misses. He grabs a lot of offensive boards and dunks the putbacks. He makes the Bulls more efficient by rescuing possessions his teammates wasted. He has the highest offensive rating on the Bulls (Noah also has the lowest defensive rating on that team, indicating he's their best player).

    On the second point, it's likely that Davis will be a better version of Amir Johnson, but Alabi can't get on the court. Wright is a swingman. The team needs a wide bodied center to block out the lane and guard the rim -- a player that's as wide as two normal forwards, because the power forward (Bargnani) will not be helping as another team's PF would.

  14. #34
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    I agree that we need a big body center but Jason is not that guy.

    I wouldn't put too much into stats cause they don't tell the whole story, for example because Reggie is not a scorer the raptors are forced to run more sets which I think benefits this team more so now without a star. The great teams in this league run great sets. It's nice to have a team that runs up and down the floor but 90% of the time you get a opportunity to run is off of long rebounds, good defense or the opposing team just sleeping. Half court exacution is is where the real work is done and I Reggie is not the greatest player but he is needed.

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    Ha!
    Crazy i was fooling around with the trade machine and did a Reggie for Jason trade. I would do that in a second, I think the only reason Kings would is it gives them even more cap room at the end of the year and Reggie could contribute right away.
    Eh follow my TWITTER!

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    Quote Legalize-It wrote: View Post
    in what world does a developing team give up a 1st round pick for 2 expiring contracts who are reggie evans and marcus banks ?
    The Knicks did it. They would have over $20M off the books next year if they went through with this trade, plus next years draft is considered to be pretty bad. The top prospects are mostly forwards, and the Kings have a load of great potential big men. We could also give them our TPE and take on one of their bad contracts...

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    Quote chris wrote: View Post
    if the dude is behind darnell 'lacktion' jackson in the depth chart of a pretty bad team (albeit one with a bright future), i can't say i'm all that excited at the prospect of acquiring him.

    what makes BC think he'd crack the rotation of reggie, the 34 million dollar man, davis when we get him back, and occasionally kleiza? sounds like a lateral move at best
    Jason Thompson is a good player.

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    Quote JoePanini wrote: View Post
    Thompson could play center, as a backup to Bargnani, he would be a pretty great back-up.
    You're right. For some reason, I always thought he was smaller than he actually is. Don't know why. As a backup center, he might be a nice option, but he's apparently not a very good defender, which would be a bit worrisome if he were on the Raptors. I wouldn't have a problem with the Raptors getting him, though, as I think he'd be a good, young asset the Raptors could use in the future.
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    Quote Tim W. wrote: View Post
    You're right. For some reason, I always thought he was smaller than he actually is. Don't know why. As a backup center, he might be a nice option, but he's apparently not a very good defender, which would be a bit worrisome if he were on the Raptors. I wouldn't have a problem with the Raptors getting him, though, as I think he'd be a good, young asset the Raptors could use in the future.
    He is a better defender than Bargnani, not that it is much but he's also younger, more athletic and a better defender than Andersen. He can also rebound pretty goddamn well, has a pretty 16 foot jumper. He would be an improvement over Andersen, even over Reggie. Although he doesn't have the drive Reggie has (I don't know this, but I don't think ANY player has Reggie's drive and motivation) but can rebound pretty well, and is NOT a liability on offense. Check out his stats over his first 2 seasons, pretty solid. And overall he is a better and younger player than Andersen, Banks and Evans. If we take on one of their longer more Calderon-ish contracts and use our TPE I don't see why they wouldn't do it.

    If we try and do this trade:

    Marcus Banks ($5M) + Reggie Evans ($5M) + TPE for Jason Thompson ($2M) + Francisco Garcia ($5.5M) + Samuel Dalembert ($13.5M) + 2011 first round draft pick + 2012 first round draft pick

    Why they would do this, because they get 2 expiring in Banks and Evans, and that's $10M off the books already next year. They also go even more under the salary cap and for a non-playoff team that is a must. They also get rid of an unhappy Thompson and Garcia who has a "large" and long contract (if you check out the rest of the team). Yes they lose 2 first round draft picks, but this draft at least has no player they need. Most of the top prospects this year are big men, which is the position that the Kings really don't need to add talent on.
    I think the Kings would have to consider such a trade, and as for our side. We get a lot for nothing. We get a very good defensive center in Dalembert, we also get Thompson and 2 first round picks. Dalembert comes off the books next year with his $13 million salary (he is included in the trade so that the Kings can have a shit load of salary cap, didn't count but it would be way over $20M) so if we don't like him (LOL) we can just let him go. I don't know about others but I would do this trade in a heartbeat.

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    Quote JoePanini wrote: View Post
    He is a better defender than Bargnani, not that it is much but he's also younger, more athletic and a better defender than Andersen. He can also rebound pretty goddamn well, has a pretty 16 foot jumper. He would be an improvement over Andersen, even over Reggie. Although he doesn't have the drive Reggie has (I don't know this, but I don't think ANY player has Reggie's drive and motivation) but can rebound pretty well, and is NOT a liability on offense. Check out his stats over his first 2 seasons, pretty solid. And overall he is a better and younger player than Andersen, Banks and Evans. If we take on one of their longer more Calderon-ish contracts and use our TPE I don't see why they wouldn't do it.

    If we try and do this trade:

    Marcus Banks ($5M) + Reggie Evans ($5M) + TPE for Jason Thompson ($2M) + Francisco Garcia ($5.5M) + Samuel Dalembert ($13.5M) + 2011 first round draft pick + 2012 first round draft pick

    Why they would do this, because they get 2 expiring in Banks and Evans, and that's $10M off the books already next year. They also go even more under the salary cap and for a non-playoff team that is a must. They also get rid of an unhappy Thompson and Garcia who has a "large" and long contract (if you check out the rest of the team). Yes they lose 2 first round draft picks, but this draft at least has no player they need. Most of the top prospects this year are big men, which is the position that the Kings really don't need to add talent on.
    I think the Kings would have to consider such a trade, and as for our side. We get a lot for nothing. We get a very good defensive center in Dalembert, we also get Thompson and 2 first round picks. Dalembert comes off the books next year with his $13 million salary (he is included in the trade so that the Kings can have a shit load of salary cap, didn't count but it would be way over $20M) so if we don't like him (LOL) we can just let him go. I don't know about others but I would do this trade in a heartbeat.
    Dalembert is already a $13.5M expiring.

    Yes they want rid of Thompson but they would want something of value in return as the guy can actually play.

    Garcia is not a bad wing player. 13pts, good 3pt shooter, stl & blk per game, a few boards. Maybe a touch overpaid but do we really want to go there? I'm not sure they would want to send him away just to get rid of him.

    Kings do not have any 2's or 3's outside of Casspi, Evans, and Garcia. Wright is bad so is Greene, unfortuinately for them.

    I do not think Evans or Banks does anything for Sacramento.

    I think WRight for THompson would make the most sense.

    Also, the kings draft picks are going to be lottery. No way they trade those to get rid of JT and Garcia.

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