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Thread: BC looking like a legit architect

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    Default BC looking like a legit architect

    I think half of the scrutiny that BC has faced was due to the fact that we lost Bosh and Raps fans were just frustrated. If you can discredit him for anything, it would probably be that he tried too hard to retain Bosh in the first place. However, with a clean slate it looks like BC is killing it.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star Hotshot's Avatar
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    Quote Nick wrote: View Post
    However, with a clean slate it looks like BC is killing it.
    2-8 record indicates another Fail.

    This is the fourth season in a row where the Raptors are a struggling team and it all rests on BC shoulders.

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    Quote Hotshot wrote: View Post
    2-8 record indicates another Fail.

    This is the fourth season in a row where the Raptors are a struggling team and it all rests on BC shoulders.
    Not that I think Colangelo has done a great job, or anything, but I think the last thing you can judge this season on is the record.
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    How does this thread even get made ?

    Teams missed the playoffs now 3 yrs in a row,a TON of questionable moves and signings..

    yet he's an architecht ? Go back and look at this teams patch work roster the last 3 years,nothing is architechtual,nothing was designed or planned..its been nothing but panic,disorganization and re active moves....

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    Quote Trife76 wrote: View Post
    How does this thread even get made ?

    Teams missed the playoffs now 3 yrs in a row,a TON of questionable moves and signings..

    yet he's an architecht ? Go back and look at this teams patch work roster the last 3 years,nothing is architechtual,nothing was designed or planned..its been nothing but panic,disorganization and re active moves....
    He was GM of the year his very first year, that speaks for itself. What would you of done differently? I would really like to know that answer.

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    I am getting more of an appreciation (following the nba as closely as Iam doing as compared previously) how difficult it is to manage/grow/change a NBA team. So much is timing in relationship to existing talent. Flavors of the year come and go (eg. Cavs, Orlando, Milwaukee, NJ), some progress for a couple of years and then injuries or the dreaded free agency (maybe Howard moves next year) arrives for a player or two, others remain solidly in place because they were able retain the foundation (LA, SA). SO, in my view using the term architect is probably an inappropriate term for a gm in the nba. How would a real (building) architect like to have their creations constantly affected by external events (earthquake, strikes, bad cement).

    The best or worst one can say about Colangelo is that he is emotionally not predisposed to standing pat. Is this a good thing or not? At least this has been his mo so far. The ones who are considered good have also had the good fortune to have made the one primo selection on their watch and held on to him/them ...and there are probably 2 or 3 of these. See Portland re Oden and now Roy's problems and how that team is going to manage going forward. The diciness of franchise management is palpable in my view. We could definitely do a lot worse going forward (our cap and talent position). Getting someone new to be much superior isnt as clear cut because of the external forces I alluded to.

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    Raptors Republic Veteran ceez's Avatar
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    outside of the 1st for o'neal deal i'd say he's done a fine job. his drafting could be a lot better, though.

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    http://hoopshype.com/general_manager..._colangelo.htm

    The above link is Colangelo's entire body of work as an NBA GM.

    I think Nick has a great point here:

    For all the BC-haters, what would you have done differently?

    Of course, there is no way to know how it would have panned out but the bottom line is this:

    He came in 2007, won an Atlantic title, and lost in the first round to a pretty good NJ team after the glue guy went down (Garbo).

    Since then he has tried to build a contender around Chris Bosh. This was obviously a mistake but he went about it as best anyone could.

    Look at Bosh now, he has LBJ and D-Wade and look at the results! Are you people kidding me thinking we could win with him here?

    Bosh is gone and the franchise is moving on. The team plays with more effort and intensity than any Raptors squad of recent memory with less talent.

    I hope BC gets at least this year and next before any decisions are made to let him go. With Bosh now gone we can truly say this is BC's team.

    And to show I am not 100% biased here are the moves BC has made that I think he messed up on in part or whole:

    1) Including the Raps first rounder to MIA and taking on Banks in O'Neal-Marion trade.
    2) Jason Kapono's contract - not a bad signing at the time but waaay too much $.
    3) 1st rounder in O'Neal deal.

    Many other moves are questionable in hindsight and he has made lemonade out of lemons more than once:

    1) Delfino and Ukic for Johnson and Weems.
    2) Hedo for Barbosa.
    3) Arujo for Humphries.
    4) Bellinelli (who was Hedo out with I wonder?) for Wright.
    5) Kapono for Evans.

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    Quote ceez wrote: View Post
    outside of the 1st for o'neal deal i'd say he's done a fine job. his drafting could be a lot better, though.
    He's only drafted 3 guys for the Raps: Bargnani, DeRozan, and Davis in the first round; PJ Tucker and Evan Bavcic in the 2nd round.

    Bargnani: hindsight says Rondo and Gay. Aldridge definite argument there. Roy's knees were the issue and 5 years in, after a max contract, we are seeing why.

    DeRozan: Who would you want? I can't see anyone else. Jennings is starting to show a ceiling or maybe, for his sake, a sophmore slump. http://www.nba.com/draft2009/

    Davis: TBD. http://www.nba.com/draft2010/ Personally, I wish we had got Aminu had he slipped, however, no sense wishing Davis away before he's even played.

    Tucker: Hindsight here - Gibson? Powe? Millsap?

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    yeah, fair points

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    except aminu. im willing to be money he becomes nothing better than a decent bench player. if i had my druthers we would have moved up for xavier henry but i can see how that would/couldn't have happened.

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    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Quote Nick wrote: View Post
    I think half of the scrutiny that BC has faced was due to the fact that we lost Bosh and Raps fans were just frustrated. If you can discredit him for anything, it would probably be that he tried too hard to retain Bosh in the first place. However, with a clean slate it looks like BC is killing it.
    Lack of performance has led to scrutiny. Dealing Bosh isn't the reason for it, it's just one of the causes of the real reason people are pissed.

    I wish I could land a job that rewarded me for failure and mediocrity. God only knows what sort of rewards that job provides if I deliver.

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    I agree, BC is lookin pretty good. Despite our somewhat shite-from-the-outside looking roster, we have competed against some serious opponents- LA, Miami, Orlando with the win. Factoring in all of the injuries and illnesses that have befallen our team, I think we look good.

    Fine, we've had some "winnable" games slip through, namely NYC, Sacramento, Charlotte, but I have enjoyed watching this team for the most part this year. Much better than last year saying "why why why" at Bosh's stat padding iso basketball.

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    I like Colangelo, so maybe biased, but I like his track record on trades. Some attempts could have gone either way (and that should include his successes/steals) however I think a dual GM would be ideal here. Sure one can second guess draft work, and I like Aldridge or Gay over Bargnani, now and at that time, so forget the 20-20 looks (never would have gone Rondo, and still wouldn't). That said I would have loved Xavier this last draft, but it wasn't a Xavier or Davis, only Davis was there, and Patterson is already showing a reason he should have been drafted later (as some would have preferred he was selected.)

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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    http://hoopshype.com/general_manager..._colangelo.htm

    The above link is Colangelo's entire body of work as an NBA GM.

    I think Nick has a great point here:

    For all the BC-haters, what would you have done differently?

    Of course, there is no way to know how it would have panned out but the bottom line is this:

    He came in 2007, won an Atlantic title, and lost in the first round to a pretty good NJ team after the glue guy went down (Garbo).

    Since then he has tried to build a contender around Chris Bosh. This was obviously a mistake but he went about it as best anyone could.

    Look at Bosh now, he has LBJ and D-Wade and look at the results! Are you people kidding me thinking we could win with him here?

    Bosh is gone and the franchise is moving on. The team plays with more effort and intensity than any Raptors squad of recent memory with less talent.

    I hope BC gets at least this year and next before any decisions are made to let him go. With Bosh now gone we can truly say this is BC's team.

    And to show I am not 100% biased here are the moves BC has made that I think he messed up on in part or whole:

    1) Including the Raps first rounder to MIA and taking on Banks in O'Neal-Marion trade.
    2) Jason Kapono's contract - not a bad signing at the time but waaay too much $.
    3) 1st rounder in O'Neal deal.

    Many other moves are questionable in hindsight and he has made lemonade out of lemons more than once:

    1) Delfino and Ukic for Johnson and Weems.
    2) Hedo for Barbosa.
    3) Arujo for Humphries.
    4) Bellinelli (who was Hedo out with I wonder?) for Wright.
    5) Kapono for Evans.
    Couldn't have said it any better myself. Great post!

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    Raptors Republic All-Star hateslosing's Avatar
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    I think BC has done a great job finding diamonds in the rough type players like Weems and Johnson,two guys that were on the cusp of being out of this league and have become part of our future. His drafting has been alright, DD is starting to heat up a bit so it may look a whole lot better soon. Team success is the measure of a GM and we have been missing that since BC came in so I think he has been a failure thus far in terms of building this team.

    I am liking the direction this rebuild is going in so far and if BC can make a few smart moves and get this team into contention over the next 3 seasons, I think we'll have to give the devil his due. He's got a good base established with DD, Weems, and Amir and we are starting to see other players like Julian Wright look like they could be key cogs in the future. It's a long shot, but I do want to see where this team ends up. Bargs is the key here, whether we move him in order to complete the rebuild or try to ride him to mediocrity will define the rest of BC's tenure.
    Last edited by hateslosing; Mon Nov 15th, 2010 at 04:10 PM.
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    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    Lack of performance has led to scrutiny. Dealing Bosh isn't the reason for it, it's just one of the causes of the real reason people are pissed.

    I wish I could land a job that rewarded me for failure and mediocrity. God only knows what sort of rewards that job provides if I deliver.
    Fair enough

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    Quote Nick wrote: View Post
    He was GM of the year his very first year, that speaks for itself. What would you of done differently? I would really like to know that answer.
    but that was 4 years ago ? and we got our asses ate in the 1st round...is that all you have ?

    To be fair almost any GM could have made that improvement in that year,we were 26-56 the previous year before he came and we had money to spend and a first overrall pick...That was the easiest turn over in the NBA..any competent GM could have done what he did....he was given a layup and he made it..THE REAL STORY is what he did after that first year freebie was over and the TRUTH is he hasnt done anything worth a thread.....

    He's made endless small deals and re made the team on the fly to fix his mistakes..and the proof is in this teams accoloades since 2007...a 500 record and a first round thrashing to Orlando and then 2 consecutive bum seasons filled with player turnover and mistakes...including the miscalculation of Chris Bosh as a cornerstone player and loyalty to this franchise....

    Do you require any more ? We can break down all his moves if you like but it will only add to my argument...

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    Its understandable if you are for or against BC, both sides of the plate have reasonable agruments. Going into this year people have been holding a torch to BC, Triano, and Bargnani. I know the Raps are 2-8, but if you were to say that this team ins't exciting, improving by the game, and showing serious potential, then I don't think you have been watching the Raps of the past-present enough to make that assessment. I'll admit that I had serious doubts about BC's capabilities coming into the season, Triano's inability to hold guys accountable, and Barg's soft rebounding. But at the moment, I am seeing a completely different picture, and three of the guys I mentioned are garnering my respect. Credit Derozan, Weems, Amir, Jack and Dorsey for sticking around Toronto this summer to set this team some sort of bar.

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    Quote Trife76 wrote: View Post
    but that was 4 years ago ? and we got our asses ate in the 1st round...is that all you have ?

    To be fair almost any GM could have made that improvement in that year,we were 26-56 the previous year before he came and we had money to spend and a first overrall pick...That was the easiest turn over in the NBA..any competent GM could have done what he did....he was given a layup and he made it..THE REAL STORY is what he did after that first year freebie was over and the TRUTH is he hasnt done anything worth a thread.....

    He's made endless small deals and re made the team on the fly to fix his mistakes..and the proof is in this teams accoloades since 2007...a 500 record and a first round thrashing to Orlando and then 2 consecutive bum seasons filled with player turnover and mistakes...including the miscalculation of Chris Bosh as a cornerstone player and loyalty to this franchise....

    Do you require any more ? We can break down all his moves if you like but it will only add to my argument...
    I guess your right

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