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Thread: BC looking like a legit architect

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    Default BC looking like a legit architect

    I think half of the scrutiny that BC has faced was due to the fact that we lost Bosh and Raps fans were just frustrated. If you can discredit him for anything, it would probably be that he tried too hard to retain Bosh in the first place. However, with a clean slate it looks like BC is killing it.

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    Quote Nick wrote: View Post
    However, with a clean slate it looks like BC is killing it.
    2-8 record indicates another Fail.

    This is the fourth season in a row where the Raptors are a struggling team and it all rests on BC shoulders.

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    Quote Hotshot wrote: View Post
    2-8 record indicates another Fail.

    This is the fourth season in a row where the Raptors are a struggling team and it all rests on BC shoulders.
    Not that I think Colangelo has done a great job, or anything, but I think the last thing you can judge this season on is the record.
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    Quote Tim W. wrote: View Post
    Not that I think Colangelo has done a great job, or anything, but I think the last thing you can judge this season on is the record.
    and why not?! I mean take a look at the current roster and their record, they are not going to win +40 games, get to .500, or even the playoff so how can I not be a judge on Colangelo this season?!

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    Quote Hotshot wrote: View Post
    and why not?! I mean take a look at the current roster and their record, they are not going to win +40 games, get to .500, or even the playoff so how can I not be a judge on Colangelo this season?!
    Y'know its absurd...if he can get credit for circumstances that lead him to 06-07 then he can take the blame for his own messes that lead to 10-11....

    This season is a direct result and culmination of his mistakes the last 2 years and he somehow gets a pass from it ? Ridiculous

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    Quote Hotshot wrote: View Post
    and why not?! I mean take a look at the current roster and their record, they are not going to win +40 games, get to .500, or even the playoff so how can I not be a judge on Colangelo this season?!
    Exactly - they are going through a bonafide rebuild. Look at their roster, future contract obligations, draft picks, flexibility combined with the progress being shown by the current team.

    Also, it is really unfortunate that CHA trade was killed last second by MJ. However, he probably did the franchise a favour in the long run allowing younger players to develop and ensure a higher draft pick this year. This is a total rebuild and one great draft pick and free agent or trade signing is really all this team needs to truly compete. The bench and role players are there - they just need go to players.

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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    Exactly - they are going through a bonafide rebuild. Look at their roster, future contract obligations, draft picks, flexibility combined with the progress being shown by the current team.

    Also, it is really unfortunate that CHA trade was killed last second by MJ. However, he probably did the franchise a favour in the long run allowing younger players to develop and ensure a higher draft pick this year. This is a total rebuild and one great draft pick and free agent or trade signing is really all this team needs to truly compete. The bench and role players are there - they just need go to players.
    Honestly man you live in bizarro world...where Raps fans think the last 3 years of failure were done on purpose...this isnt a proper rebuild at all..its a collection of pieces BC is forced to play with and take the L cuz he has no space to maneuver...
    Proper rebuild with a bunch of bench players and stiffs you got off the scrap heap ? lol

    If the Raps get 1 of the top 3 picks this year it would be great BUT it doesnt mean were a legit team...it means the process to getting there MIGHT be shorter...this team is several players away from even getting back into the playoffs let alone contending.

    This is basically a rebuild due to failures of the last few seasons and nowhere else to go...even BC by his own admission says this team can get in the playoffs this year,he is not trying to rebuild this team on purpose he just has no choice he gotta eat his mess....

    It wont be a proper rebuuild til you move one of the PGs preferably Calderon and try doing the same with Bargs....you cant rebuild with pieces from the past losing carcass still playing prominent roles....

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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    Exactly - they are going through a bonafide rebuild. Look at their roster, future contract obligations, draft picks, flexibility combined with the progress being shown by the current team.

    Also, it is really unfortunate that CHA trade was killed last second by MJ. However, he probably did the franchise a favour in the long run allowing younger players to develop and ensure a higher draft pick this year. This is a total rebuild and one great draft pick and free agent or trade signing is really all this team needs to truly compete. The bench and role players are there - they just need go to players.
    hahah cant you say that about any lottery team ? but yea ur rite, bc should get credit for maintaining a good bench !!

    also... bc TRADED FOR tj ford... good evaluator of character there... if it werent for babcock who signed jose, TJ would be our man probably with a 5 year deal worth 50 million which we would still be paying

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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    Exactly - they are going through a bonafide rebuild. Look at their roster, future contract obligations, draft picks, flexibility combined with the progress being shown by the current team.
    a "bonafide rebuild" ?

    yea ummm we might need to acquire a few more draft picks on top of what we already have to even taste rebuild... who are we developing reggie and D.A. ? barbosa ? kleiza ?

    hahah

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    Quote Hotshot wrote: View Post
    and why not?! I mean take a look at the current roster and their record, they are not going to win +40 games, get to .500, or even the playoff so how can I not be a judge on Colangelo this season?!
    This roster obviously isn't built to win now. It's meant to develop young talent, get a high draft pick and build for the future. The Raptors don't have a ton of talent, but they've put together some nice young pieces that could either develop into pretty good players, or be used in trades. If you want to say he's failed because of what has transpired over the previous 4 years, then that's fine, but this year you can't judge the team on it's record.
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    Quote Tim W. wrote: View Post
    This roster obviously isn't built to win now. It's meant to develop young talent, get a high draft pick and build for the future. The Raptors don't have a ton of talent, but they've put together some nice young pieces that could either develop into pretty good players, or be used in trades. If you want to say he's failed because of what has transpired over the previous 4 years, then that's fine, but this year you can't judge the team on it's record.

    lol Dude thats absolute non sense...of course you can judge him based on this year...His series of whiffs landed him and the team where they are...If the parts dont pan out and he doesnt move on that TPE and doesnt make necessary other moves than he most def is to be judged....lol @ the notion that he gets a pass on his own mess...

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    How does this thread even get made ?

    Teams missed the playoffs now 3 yrs in a row,a TON of questionable moves and signings..

    yet he's an architecht ? Go back and look at this teams patch work roster the last 3 years,nothing is architechtual,nothing was designed or planned..its been nothing but panic,disorganization and re active moves....

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    Quote Trife76 wrote: View Post
    How does this thread even get made ?

    Teams missed the playoffs now 3 yrs in a row,a TON of questionable moves and signings..

    yet he's an architecht ? Go back and look at this teams patch work roster the last 3 years,nothing is architechtual,nothing was designed or planned..its been nothing but panic,disorganization and re active moves....
    He was GM of the year his very first year, that speaks for itself. What would you of done differently? I would really like to know that answer.

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    Quote Nick wrote: View Post
    He was GM of the year his very first year, that speaks for itself. What would you of done differently? I would really like to know that answer.
    but that was 4 years ago ? and we got our asses ate in the 1st round...is that all you have ?

    To be fair almost any GM could have made that improvement in that year,we were 26-56 the previous year before he came and we had money to spend and a first overrall pick...That was the easiest turn over in the NBA..any competent GM could have done what he did....he was given a layup and he made it..THE REAL STORY is what he did after that first year freebie was over and the TRUTH is he hasnt done anything worth a thread.....

    He's made endless small deals and re made the team on the fly to fix his mistakes..and the proof is in this teams accoloades since 2007...a 500 record and a first round thrashing to Orlando and then 2 consecutive bum seasons filled with player turnover and mistakes...including the miscalculation of Chris Bosh as a cornerstone player and loyalty to this franchise....

    Do you require any more ? We can break down all his moves if you like but it will only add to my argument...

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    Quote Trife76 wrote: View Post
    but that was 4 years ago ? and we got our asses ate in the 1st round...is that all you have ?

    To be fair almost any GM could have made that improvement in that year,we were 26-56 the previous year before he came and we had money to spend and a first overrall pick...That was the easiest turn over in the NBA..any competent GM could have done what he did....he was given a layup and he made it..THE REAL STORY is what he did after that first year freebie was over and the TRUTH is he hasnt done anything worth a thread.....

    He's made endless small deals and re made the team on the fly to fix his mistakes..and the proof is in this teams accoloades since 2007...a 500 record and a first round thrashing to Orlando and then 2 consecutive bum seasons filled with player turnover and mistakes...including the miscalculation of Chris Bosh as a cornerstone player and loyalty to this franchise....

    Do you require any more ? We can break down all his moves if you like but it will only add to my argument...
    I guess your right

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    I dont have anything personal against BC or Bargnani...
    Im just not going to lie about how great either of them are cuz they play for the home team...

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    Quote Trife76 wrote: View Post
    but that was 4 years ago ? and we got our asses ate in the 1st round...is that all you have ?

    To be fair almost any GM could have made that improvement in that year,we were 26-56 the previous year before he came and we had money to spend and a first overrall pick...That was the easiest turn over in the NBA..any competent GM could have done what he did....he was given a layup and he made it..THE REAL STORY is what he did after that first year freebie was over and the TRUTH is he hasnt done anything worth a thread.....

    He's made endless small deals and re made the team on the fly to fix his mistakes..and the proof is in this teams accoloades since 2007...a 500 record and a first round thrashing to Orlando and then 2 consecutive bum seasons filled with player turnover and mistakes...including the miscalculation of Chris Bosh as a cornerstone player and loyalty to this franchise....

    Do you require any more ? We can break down all his moves if you like but it will only add to my argument...
    The idea that any GM could have done what he did in the first year is also a joke. Parker was out of the league for years and Garbo had never been here - there is 2 of your starters right there from 'the freebie' year. I don't remember those guys starring the final four. I don't remember them ever hitting the HoopsHype.com rumour section about contenders vying for their services.

    Who do you think wanted to build around Bosh? MLSE or BC? Bosh is nothing like any other player BC has traded for or drafted - minus J. O'Neal. You work with what you are given.

    I provided the link to his GM career. Break it down. Your last line is weak - back it up.

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    Quote Nick wrote: View Post
    He was GM of the year his very first year, that speaks for itself. What would you of done differently? I would really like to know that answer.
    umm not trade 1st round pick for j.o, then trade another 1st round pick to get rid of j.o ??
    how bout signing or drafting just ONE WING PLAYER WHO CAN DEFEND ??
    how bout not signing kleiza and letting DD, weems and any future wings to actually develop ?

    was it really necessary to sign bargs to a 5 year $50 million deal ? he was a RFA, we could have seen what other teams would have offered the following summer and gone from there...

    forget having a decent center, name the last team to win a championship without a SF that can defend ?

    finally he could have been the bigger man and even though bosh left, he didnt have to act like a bitch and say shit behind bosh's back...

    i highly doubt any respectable nba gm would do that... it shows more class to just say hey we wish him the best and move on... you dont offer a guy max money and then when he doesnt take it say, yea he checked out after the all-star game...

    maybe dont draft a PF when your franchise player is a PF... and then 4 years later make the same mistake again...

    just my thoughts... im sure you dont agree...

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    I am getting more of an appreciation (following the nba as closely as Iam doing as compared previously) how difficult it is to manage/grow/change a NBA team. So much is timing in relationship to existing talent. Flavors of the year come and go (eg. Cavs, Orlando, Milwaukee, NJ), some progress for a couple of years and then injuries or the dreaded free agency (maybe Howard moves next year) arrives for a player or two, others remain solidly in place because they were able retain the foundation (LA, SA). SO, in my view using the term architect is probably an inappropriate term for a gm in the nba. How would a real (building) architect like to have their creations constantly affected by external events (earthquake, strikes, bad cement).

    The best or worst one can say about Colangelo is that he is emotionally not predisposed to standing pat. Is this a good thing or not? At least this has been his mo so far. The ones who are considered good have also had the good fortune to have made the one primo selection on their watch and held on to him/them ...and there are probably 2 or 3 of these. See Portland re Oden and now Roy's problems and how that team is going to manage going forward. The diciness of franchise management is palpable in my view. We could definitely do a lot worse going forward (our cap and talent position). Getting someone new to be much superior isnt as clear cut because of the external forces I alluded to.

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    http://hoopshype.com/general_manager..._colangelo.htm

    The above link is Colangelo's entire body of work as an NBA GM.

    I think Nick has a great point here:

    For all the BC-haters, what would you have done differently?

    Of course, there is no way to know how it would have panned out but the bottom line is this:

    He came in 2007, won an Atlantic title, and lost in the first round to a pretty good NJ team after the glue guy went down (Garbo).

    Since then he has tried to build a contender around Chris Bosh. This was obviously a mistake but he went about it as best anyone could.

    Look at Bosh now, he has LBJ and D-Wade and look at the results! Are you people kidding me thinking we could win with him here?

    Bosh is gone and the franchise is moving on. The team plays with more effort and intensity than any Raptors squad of recent memory with less talent.

    I hope BC gets at least this year and next before any decisions are made to let him go. With Bosh now gone we can truly say this is BC's team.

    And to show I am not 100% biased here are the moves BC has made that I think he messed up on in part or whole:

    1) Including the Raps first rounder to MIA and taking on Banks in O'Neal-Marion trade.
    2) Jason Kapono's contract - not a bad signing at the time but waaay too much $.
    3) 1st rounder in O'Neal deal.

    Many other moves are questionable in hindsight and he has made lemonade out of lemons more than once:

    1) Delfino and Ukic for Johnson and Weems.
    2) Hedo for Barbosa.
    3) Arujo for Humphries.
    4) Bellinelli (who was Hedo out with I wonder?) for Wright.
    5) Kapono for Evans.

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