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Thread: BC looking like a legit architect

  1. #21
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    What BC did in his first year really bares no relevancy in the year 2010...if you judge him on his collective work in T.O. its without a doubt a failing grade on all levels....performance,personnel moves,results, and ability to re tool/turnover the roster...Its much easier to make a list of the things he has done properly...

  2. #22
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    I dont have anything personal against BC or Bargnani...
    Im just not going to lie about how great either of them are cuz they play for the home team...

  3. #23
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    Quote Trife76 wrote: View Post
    but that was 4 years ago ? and we got our asses ate in the 1st round...is that all you have ?

    To be fair almost any GM could have made that improvement in that year,we were 26-56 the previous year before he came and we had money to spend and a first overrall pick...That was the easiest turn over in the NBA..any competent GM could have done what he did....he was given a layup and he made it..THE REAL STORY is what he did after that first year freebie was over and the TRUTH is he hasnt done anything worth a thread.....

    He's made endless small deals and re made the team on the fly to fix his mistakes..and the proof is in this teams accoloades since 2007...a 500 record and a first round thrashing to Orlando and then 2 consecutive bum seasons filled with player turnover and mistakes...including the miscalculation of Chris Bosh as a cornerstone player and loyalty to this franchise....

    Do you require any more ? We can break down all his moves if you like but it will only add to my argument...
    The idea that any GM could have done what he did in the first year is also a joke. Parker was out of the league for years and Garbo had never been here - there is 2 of your starters right there from 'the freebie' year. I don't remember those guys starring the final four. I don't remember them ever hitting the HoopsHype.com rumour section about contenders vying for their services.

    Who do you think wanted to build around Bosh? MLSE or BC? Bosh is nothing like any other player BC has traded for or drafted - minus J. O'Neal. You work with what you are given.

    I provided the link to his GM career. Break it down. Your last line is weak - back it up.

  4. #24
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    Quote Trife76 wrote: View Post
    What BC did in his first year really bares no relevancy in the year 2010...if you judge him on his collective work in T.O. its without a doubt a failing grade on all levels....performance,personnel moves,results, and ability to re tool/turnover the roster...Its much easier to make a list of the things he has done properly...
    Good point. The team lost their 'franchise player' who can't even play third wheel to Wade and James - Haslem and Big Z are playing much better than Bosh.

    So we look at 2010 and we see a team that has wasted 3 years building around a drag queen and who are now more exciting to watch than ever, playing with more intensity and effort than in seasons, and going through a proper re-building effort with 2 first round draft picks available, about $20M in cap space for this coming off-season (barring changes in CBA), and a $14.5M TPE that can help facililate any number of trades.

    My question still remains, who wanted to build around Bosh - MLSE or BC? I guess we'll never know but I know who I would guess.

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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    The idea that any GM could have done what he did in the first year is also a joke. Parker was out of the league for years and Garbo had never been here - there is 2 of your starters right there from 'the freebie' year. I don't remember those guys starring the final four. I don't remember them ever hitting the HoopsHype.com rumour section about contenders vying for their services.

    Who do you think wanted to build around Bosh? MLSE or BC? Bosh is nothing like any other player BC has traded for or drafted - minus J. O'Neal. You work with what you are given.

    I provided the link to his GM career. Break it down. Your last line is weak - back it up.
    Its not a joke son,he had cap space and no expectations coming off a 26 win season and he had draft picks...Any comptent basketball guy could have done what he did that ONE season..proof is what has he done SINCE that fluke and the answer is ZERO.
    lol @ AP
    Son he was afforded the oppotunity to take those chances with players because he came in as a "savior" to a team who was terrible the year before..he was afforded that gamble and it paid off...the real test was subsequent years after the one year fluke which didnt work thus showing that first year was nothing more than a fluke....the 2007 playoffs was proof of that...

    BC wanted to build around Bosh and he stated that many times that was his guy...he was in complete control of personnel and we both know this....Look at how he reacted to Bosh rumors last season and ur going to tell me he does all that if Bosh isnt HIS guy ? lol.....fact is it speaks volumes about his ability to evaluate players that he thinks Bosh was a legit No 1 to begin with...and Bosh is similar to ALOT of players BC likes and has drafted IE Bargnani,Cabarkapa (finesse big men)

    You want back up ?
    2 One and dones
    3 straight years of no playoffs
    your supposed franchise guy walks for a TPE
    declining attendance
    no cap space (due to 3-4 horrid contracts)

    but but but but he traded Araujo for Humphries lol

  6. #26
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    Good point. The team lost their 'franchise player' who can't even play third wheel to Wade and James - Haslem and Big Z are playing much better than Bosh.

    So we look at 2010 and we see a team that has wasted 3 years building around a drag queen and who are now more exciting to watch than ever, playing with more intensity and effort than in seasons, and going through a proper re-building effort with 2 first round draft picks available, about $20M in cap space for this coming off-season (barring changes in CBA), and a $14.5M TPE that can help facililate any number of trades.

    My question still remains, who wanted to build around Bosh - MLSE or BC? I guess we'll never know but I know who I would guess.

    BC wanted to build around Bosh

  7. #27
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    Quote Tim W. wrote: View Post
    Not that I think Colangelo has done a great job, or anything, but I think the last thing you can judge this season on is the record.
    and why not?! I mean take a look at the current roster and their record, they are not going to win +40 games, get to .500, or even the playoff so how can I not be a judge on Colangelo this season?!

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    Quote Hotshot wrote: View Post
    and why not?! I mean take a look at the current roster and their record, they are not going to win +40 games, get to .500, or even the playoff so how can I not be a judge on Colangelo this season?!
    Y'know its absurd...if he can get credit for circumstances that lead him to 06-07 then he can take the blame for his own messes that lead to 10-11....

    This season is a direct result and culmination of his mistakes the last 2 years and he somehow gets a pass from it ? Ridiculous

  9. #29
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    Quote Trife76 wrote: View Post
    Its not a joke son,he had cap space and no expectations coming off a 26 win season and he had draft picks...Any comptent basketball guy could have done what he did that ONE season..proof is what has he done SINCE that fluke and the answer is ZERO.
    lol @ AP
    Son he was afforded the oppotunity to take those chances with players because he came in as a "savior" to a team who was terrible the year before..he was afforded that gamble and it paid off...the real test was subsequent years after the one year fluke which didnt work thus showing that first year was nothing more than a fluke....the 2007 playoffs was proof of that...

    BC wanted to build around Bosh and he stated that many times that was his guy...he was in complete control of personnel and we both know this....Look at how he reacted to Bosh rumors last season and ur going to tell me he does all that if Bosh isnt HIS guy ? lol.....fact is it speaks volumes about his ability to evaluate players that he thinks Bosh was a legit No 1 to begin with...and Bosh is similar to ALOT of players BC likes and has drafted IE Bargnani,Cabarkapa (finesse big men)

    You want back up ?
    2 One and dones
    3 straight years of no playoffs
    your supposed franchise guy walks for a TPE
    declining attendance
    no cap space (due to 3-4 horrid contracts)

    but but but but he traded Araujo for Humphries lol
    First off, your son's make you seem weak and immature - like a young peacock showing the feathers for the lady birds. There is nothing wrong with having a disagreement with debate using facts.

    "He was afforded that gamble and it paid off" - so the guy is successful and you knock him? He fails and you knock him - quite obvious you are not biased at all.

    First one and done - Garbo gone down. He wasn't a great player but they were never the same after he got injured and who was there to replace him? JOey Graham? Seriously.

    Second one and done - 6th seed lost to Orlando. That is better than over half the teams in the league that year.

    Third season - Missed the playoffs and gambled big and it did not pay off with Jermaine O'Neal - I guess even if it did pay off it would have not been good enough anywyas.

    4th season - Signed the best free agent of the summer in a deal that also brought a number of rotational players for the team. Turk turned out to be more interested in night clubs than the basketball club. They were 5th seed and had 29 wins at All-Star break. They come back and Turk screams "Ball!" at Jack Armstrong, Bosh twists his ankle and breaks his face after said All-Star game where rumours are an alliance was struck. What would your response had been if they traded him at the All-Star break with the team in 5th place? What players would the team have been left with this year? I'm pretty sure overpaid as who would trade away anything worthwhile for an unrestricted free agent who repeatedly said he was looking forward to seeing what he could get in free agency.

    Supposed franchise guy walks for TPE and two first round draft picks.

    Declining attendance - http://espn.go.com/nba/attendance Down from last year in an economy slipping back in to recession, with a rebuilding team, but still better than 1/3 of the league - including the only unbeaten team in the league (NOH) and a team that has made the playoffs for multiple consecutive seasons (ATL).

    No cap space? Check your facts. $20M for next season depending on what happens between now and Februa

    But but but but... I know, you still hate Colangelo.

  10. #30
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    The attendance will be in serious decline this year now that everything is settled,you can already see it thru the first few games...Turk was a bad signing anyone you want to cut it....There record at the all star break is corny my dude cuz the season ends in April NOT Feb....for a guy trying to debate FACTS maybe you should brush up on what the facts are...

    3 straight bad seasons,no Bosh,declining attendance,no cap space to fix it only a worthless TPE and sorry to break it to you but cap space next year is pointless cuz nobody next year is coming here...Chicago Bulls 1999 ?

    garbo Ap Turk blah blah blah facts SON he hasnt done anything in 3 seasons and made a plethora of bad cap moves...3rd straight year of no playoffs FACT...

  11. #31
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    Quote Trife76 wrote: View Post
    What BC did in his first year really bares no relevancy in the year 2010...if you judge him on his collective work in T.O. its without a doubt a failing grade on all levels....performance,personnel moves,results, and ability to re tool/turnover the roster...Its much easier to make a list of the things he has done properly...
    Your talking about a league where within the last 20 years, the title has only been won by a handful of teams. But its probably easier then it looks.

  12. #32
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    lol @ trying to force credit in the Turk signing...At best Turk wasnt going to make this team a contender so you then tied up cap in an aging SF who sucks defensively to be a 7-8 seed ? FAIL my dude lol

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    Quote Nick wrote: View Post
    Your talking about a league where within the last 20 years, the title has only been won by a handful of teams. But its probably easier then it looks.
    Cant win a title if you dont make the playoffs and we havent been doing that 3/5 years BC been here.....

  14. #34
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    Quote Hotshot wrote: View Post
    and why not?! I mean take a look at the current roster and their record, they are not going to win +40 games, get to .500, or even the playoff so how can I not be a judge on Colangelo this season?!
    Exactly - they are going through a bonafide rebuild. Look at their roster, future contract obligations, draft picks, flexibility combined with the progress being shown by the current team.

    Also, it is really unfortunate that CHA trade was killed last second by MJ. However, he probably did the franchise a favour in the long run allowing younger players to develop and ensure a higher draft pick this year. This is a total rebuild and one great draft pick and free agent or trade signing is really all this team needs to truly compete. The bench and role players are there - they just need go to players.

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    Quote Trife76 wrote: View Post
    lol @ trying to force credit in the Turk signing...At best Turk wasnt going to make this team a contender so you then tied up cap in an aging SF who sucks defensively to be a 7-8 seed ? FAIL my dude lol
    Hindsight.

    Turk is now Barbosa and PHX's problem.

    You are right though, I'm going to stop defending a 2 time Executive of the Year. His record speaks for itself and your immaturity in debating and obvious hatred of Colangelo is tiring.

  16. #36
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    Exactly - they are going through a bonafide rebuild. Look at their roster, future contract obligations, draft picks, flexibility combined with the progress being shown by the current team.

    Also, it is really unfortunate that CHA trade was killed last second by MJ. However, he probably did the franchise a favour in the long run allowing younger players to develop and ensure a higher draft pick this year. This is a total rebuild and one great draft pick and free agent or trade signing is really all this team needs to truly compete. The bench and role players are there - they just need go to players.
    Honestly man you live in bizarro world...where Raps fans think the last 3 years of failure were done on purpose...this isnt a proper rebuild at all..its a collection of pieces BC is forced to play with and take the L cuz he has no space to maneuver...
    Proper rebuild with a bunch of bench players and stiffs you got off the scrap heap ? lol

    If the Raps get 1 of the top 3 picks this year it would be great BUT it doesnt mean were a legit team...it means the process to getting there MIGHT be shorter...this team is several players away from even getting back into the playoffs let alone contending.

    This is basically a rebuild due to failures of the last few seasons and nowhere else to go...even BC by his own admission says this team can get in the playoffs this year,he is not trying to rebuild this team on purpose he just has no choice he gotta eat his mess....

    It wont be a proper rebuuild til you move one of the PGs preferably Calderon and try doing the same with Bargs....you cant rebuild with pieces from the past losing carcass still playing prominent roles....

  17. #37
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    Hindsight.

    Turk is now Barbosa and PHX's problem.

    You are right though, I'm going to stop defending a 2 time Executive of the Year. His record speaks for itself and your immaturity in debating and obvious hatred of Colangelo is tiring.
    Nah ur tired cuz you have no facts to go on...1 of those awards wasnt HERE btw lol
    Since that flukey first year (which bared nothing) what has he accomplished ?
    Its not hate its calling the situation what it is...He has failed back to back seasons when he had the resources to re make the entire roster TWICE and still couldnt get it right....nwo hes forced to eat this year and you call it a "proper rebuild"

    I think you need to take BC's dikk out of ur mouth already...He hasnt accomplished ANYTHING here...

  18. #38
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    Quote Nick wrote: View Post
    He was GM of the year his very first year, that speaks for itself. What would you of done differently? I would really like to know that answer.
    umm not trade 1st round pick for j.o, then trade another 1st round pick to get rid of j.o ??
    how bout signing or drafting just ONE WING PLAYER WHO CAN DEFEND ??
    how bout not signing kleiza and letting DD, weems and any future wings to actually develop ?

    was it really necessary to sign bargs to a 5 year $50 million deal ? he was a RFA, we could have seen what other teams would have offered the following summer and gone from there...

    forget having a decent center, name the last team to win a championship without a SF that can defend ?

    finally he could have been the bigger man and even though bosh left, he didnt have to act like a bitch and say shit behind bosh's back...

    i highly doubt any respectable nba gm would do that... it shows more class to just say hey we wish him the best and move on... you dont offer a guy max money and then when he doesnt take it say, yea he checked out after the all-star game...

    maybe dont draft a PF when your franchise player is a PF... and then 4 years later make the same mistake again...

    just my thoughts... im sure you dont agree...

  19. #39
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    Quote Trife76 wrote: View Post
    Honestly man you live in bizarro world...where Raps fans think the last 3 years of failure were done on purpose...this isnt a proper rebuild at all..its a collection of pieces BC is forced to play with and take the L cuz he has no space to maneuver...
    Proper rebuild with a bunch of bench players and stiffs you got off the scrap heap ? lol

    If the Raps get 1 of the top 3 picks this year it would be great BUT it doesnt mean were a legit team...it means the process to getting there MIGHT be shorter...this team is several players away from even getting back into the playoffs let alone contending.

    This is basically a rebuild due to failures of the last few seasons and nowhere else to go...even BC by his own admission says this team can get in the playoffs this year,he is not trying to rebuild this team on purpose he just has no choice he gotta eat his mess....

    It wont be a proper rebuuild til you move one of the PGs preferably Calderon and try doing the same with Bargs....you cant rebuild with pieces from the past losing carcass still playing prominent roles....
    Minus the first line, not a bad response and worth responding to. This is how rational people debate - and I really do not mean that with any indiginity.

    This is a proper rebuild because the guy the team has been forced to build around has left to play with his buddies on the beach.

    The stiffs and bench players are exactly what a successful team needs. Look at the roster -

    Jack and Calderon are great back up PG's,
    DeRozan is a player with a lot of potential which he hopefully uses,
    Weems another great developing player and appears to be a guy who would be a great player off the bench,
    Kleiza great guy off the bench,
    Barbosa great guy off the bench and former 6th man of the year,
    Johnson great energy off the bench especially last couple of games,
    Davis could be a great 4 in the league,
    Alabi a project,
    Dorsey a player who knows his role and does it well,
    Bargnani is a great 3rd or 4th option on O who needs a defensive minded C to play with and who has many weaknesses - he is not a franchise player but he is on a reasonable contract considering many others in the league,

    Evans, Anderson, Wright, Banks, possibly Barbosa all expiring.

    Throw in a couple of 1st round picks next year - hopefully at least one is a future star.

    Throw in a Jeff Green on the wing or Marc Gasol in the post.

    Throw in whatever the TPE returns - if anything - and this team could be a competitor.

    I'm wondering what you would expect the GM to say? "yeah, we're gonna suck." The guy has to sell tickets (supposedly much less than previous years though) and what message would that send the team?

    BC has already had a deal in place to move Calderon. It is quite obvious one of the PG's will be gone if at all possible and the return is worth it - Diaw/Chandler/Barbosa for Turk/Calderon/Evans would have been a great trade for the Raptors in terms of competitiveness and future flexibility.

    We'll have to see what unfolds. The team is obviously in transition with a good core already in place.

    In terms of future prospects, which team would you rather be a fan of going forward: DET, MEM, PHI, NJ, CLE, CHA, LAC, MIN, or TOR? I'd take TOR over all of them.

  20. #40
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote Trife76 wrote: View Post
    Nah ur tired cuz you have no facts to go on...1 of those awards wasnt HERE btw lol
    Since that flukey first year (which bared nothing) what has he accomplished ?
    Its not hate its calling the situation what it is...He has failed back to back seasons when he had the resources to re make the entire roster TWICE and still couldnt get it right....nwo hes forced to eat this year and you call it a "proper rebuild"

    I think you need to take BC's dikk out of ur mouth already...He hasnt accomplished ANYTHING here...
    Real classy.

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