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  • #16
    I think BC has done a great job finding diamonds in the rough type players like Weems and Johnson,two guys that were on the cusp of being out of this league and have become part of our future. His drafting has been alright, DD is starting to heat up a bit so it may look a whole lot better soon. Team success is the measure of a GM and we have been missing that since BC came in so I think he has been a failure thus far in terms of building this team.

    I am liking the direction this rebuild is going in so far and if BC can make a few smart moves and get this team into contention over the next 3 seasons, I think we'll have to give the devil his due. He's got a good base established with DD, Weems, and Amir and we are starting to see other players like Julian Wright look like they could be key cogs in the future. It's a long shot, but I do want to see where this team ends up. Bargs is the key here, whether we move him in order to complete the rebuild or try to ride him to mediocrity will define the rest of BC's tenure.
    Last edited by hateslosing; Mon Nov 15, 2010, 05:10 PM.
    "Victory at all costs, victory in spite of all terror, victory however long and hard the road may be; for without victory, there is no survival."

    -Churchill

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    • #17
      Apollo wrote: View Post
      Lack of performance has led to scrutiny. Dealing Bosh isn't the reason for it, it's just one of the causes of the real reason people are pissed.

      I wish I could land a job that rewarded me for failure and mediocrity. God only knows what sort of rewards that job provides if I deliver.
      Fair enough

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      • #18
        Nick wrote: View Post
        He was GM of the year his very first year, that speaks for itself. What would you of done differently? I would really like to know that answer.
        but that was 4 years ago ? and we got our asses ate in the 1st round...is that all you have ?

        To be fair almost any GM could have made that improvement in that year,we were 26-56 the previous year before he came and we had money to spend and a first overrall pick...That was the easiest turn over in the NBA..any competent GM could have done what he did....he was given a layup and he made it..THE REAL STORY is what he did after that first year freebie was over and the TRUTH is he hasnt done anything worth a thread.....

        He's made endless small deals and re made the team on the fly to fix his mistakes..and the proof is in this teams accoloades since 2007...a 500 record and a first round thrashing to Orlando and then 2 consecutive bum seasons filled with player turnover and mistakes...including the miscalculation of Chris Bosh as a cornerstone player and loyalty to this franchise....

        Do you require any more ? We can break down all his moves if you like but it will only add to my argument...

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        • #19
          Its understandable if you are for or against BC, both sides of the plate have reasonable agruments. Going into this year people have been holding a torch to BC, Triano, and Bargnani. I know the Raps are 2-8, but if you were to say that this team ins't exciting, improving by the game, and showing serious potential, then I don't think you have been watching the Raps of the past-present enough to make that assessment. I'll admit that I had serious doubts about BC's capabilities coming into the season, Triano's inability to hold guys accountable, and Barg's soft rebounding. But at the moment, I am seeing a completely different picture, and three of the guys I mentioned are garnering my respect. Credit Derozan, Weems, Amir, Jack and Dorsey for sticking around Toronto this summer to set this team some sort of bar.

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          • #20
            Trife76 wrote: View Post
            but that was 4 years ago ? and we got our asses ate in the 1st round...is that all you have ?

            To be fair almost any GM could have made that improvement in that year,we were 26-56 the previous year before he came and we had money to spend and a first overrall pick...That was the easiest turn over in the NBA..any competent GM could have done what he did....he was given a layup and he made it..THE REAL STORY is what he did after that first year freebie was over and the TRUTH is he hasnt done anything worth a thread.....

            He's made endless small deals and re made the team on the fly to fix his mistakes..and the proof is in this teams accoloades since 2007...a 500 record and a first round thrashing to Orlando and then 2 consecutive bum seasons filled with player turnover and mistakes...including the miscalculation of Chris Bosh as a cornerstone player and loyalty to this franchise....

            Do you require any more ? We can break down all his moves if you like but it will only add to my argument...
            I guess your right

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            • #21
              What BC did in his first year really bares no relevancy in the year 2010...if you judge him on his collective work in T.O. its without a doubt a failing grade on all levels....performance,personnel moves,results, and ability to re tool/turnover the roster...Its much easier to make a list of the things he has done properly...

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              • #22
                I dont have anything personal against BC or Bargnani...
                Im just not going to lie about how great either of them are cuz they play for the home team...

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                • #23
                  Trife76 wrote: View Post
                  but that was 4 years ago ? and we got our asses ate in the 1st round...is that all you have ?

                  To be fair almost any GM could have made that improvement in that year,we were 26-56 the previous year before he came and we had money to spend and a first overrall pick...That was the easiest turn over in the NBA..any competent GM could have done what he did....he was given a layup and he made it..THE REAL STORY is what he did after that first year freebie was over and the TRUTH is he hasnt done anything worth a thread.....

                  He's made endless small deals and re made the team on the fly to fix his mistakes..and the proof is in this teams accoloades since 2007...a 500 record and a first round thrashing to Orlando and then 2 consecutive bum seasons filled with player turnover and mistakes...including the miscalculation of Chris Bosh as a cornerstone player and loyalty to this franchise....

                  Do you require any more ? We can break down all his moves if you like but it will only add to my argument...
                  The idea that any GM could have done what he did in the first year is also a joke. Parker was out of the league for years and Garbo had never been here - there is 2 of your starters right there from 'the freebie' year. I don't remember those guys starring the final four. I don't remember them ever hitting the HoopsHype.com rumour section about contenders vying for their services.

                  Who do you think wanted to build around Bosh? MLSE or BC? Bosh is nothing like any other player BC has traded for or drafted - minus J. O'Neal. You work with what you are given.

                  I provided the link to his GM career. Break it down. Your last line is weak - back it up.

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                  • #24
                    Trife76 wrote: View Post
                    What BC did in his first year really bares no relevancy in the year 2010...if you judge him on his collective work in T.O. its without a doubt a failing grade on all levels....performance,personnel moves,results, and ability to re tool/turnover the roster...Its much easier to make a list of the things he has done properly...
                    Good point. The team lost their 'franchise player' who can't even play third wheel to Wade and James - Haslem and Big Z are playing much better than Bosh.

                    So we look at 2010 and we see a team that has wasted 3 years building around a drag queen and who are now more exciting to watch than ever, playing with more intensity and effort than in seasons, and going through a proper re-building effort with 2 first round draft picks available, about $20M in cap space for this coming off-season (barring changes in CBA), and a $14.5M TPE that can help facililate any number of trades.

                    My question still remains, who wanted to build around Bosh - MLSE or BC? I guess we'll never know but I know who I would guess.

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                    • #25
                      Matt52 wrote: View Post
                      The idea that any GM could have done what he did in the first year is also a joke. Parker was out of the league for years and Garbo had never been here - there is 2 of your starters right there from 'the freebie' year. I don't remember those guys starring the final four. I don't remember them ever hitting the HoopsHype.com rumour section about contenders vying for their services.

                      Who do you think wanted to build around Bosh? MLSE or BC? Bosh is nothing like any other player BC has traded for or drafted - minus J. O'Neal. You work with what you are given.

                      I provided the link to his GM career. Break it down. Your last line is weak - back it up.
                      Its not a joke son,he had cap space and no expectations coming off a 26 win season and he had draft picks...Any comptent basketball guy could have done what he did that ONE season..proof is what has he done SINCE that fluke and the answer is ZERO.
                      lol @ AP
                      Son he was afforded the oppotunity to take those chances with players because he came in as a "savior" to a team who was terrible the year before..he was afforded that gamble and it paid off...the real test was subsequent years after the one year fluke which didnt work thus showing that first year was nothing more than a fluke....the 2007 playoffs was proof of that...

                      BC wanted to build around Bosh and he stated that many times that was his guy...he was in complete control of personnel and we both know this....Look at how he reacted to Bosh rumors last season and ur going to tell me he does all that if Bosh isnt HIS guy ? lol.....fact is it speaks volumes about his ability to evaluate players that he thinks Bosh was a legit No 1 to begin with...and Bosh is similar to ALOT of players BC likes and has drafted IE Bargnani,Cabarkapa (finesse big men)

                      You want back up ?
                      2 One and dones
                      3 straight years of no playoffs
                      your supposed franchise guy walks for a TPE
                      declining attendance
                      no cap space (due to 3-4 horrid contracts)

                      but but but but he traded Araujo for Humphries lol

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                      • #26
                        Matt52 wrote: View Post
                        Good point. The team lost their 'franchise player' who can't even play third wheel to Wade and James - Haslem and Big Z are playing much better than Bosh.

                        So we look at 2010 and we see a team that has wasted 3 years building around a drag queen and who are now more exciting to watch than ever, playing with more intensity and effort than in seasons, and going through a proper re-building effort with 2 first round draft picks available, about $20M in cap space for this coming off-season (barring changes in CBA), and a $14.5M TPE that can help facililate any number of trades.

                        My question still remains, who wanted to build around Bosh - MLSE or BC? I guess we'll never know but I know who I would guess.

                        BC wanted to build around Bosh

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                        • #27
                          Tim W. wrote: View Post
                          Not that I think Colangelo has done a great job, or anything, but I think the last thing you can judge this season on is the record.
                          and why not?! I mean take a look at the current roster and their record, they are not going to win +40 games, get to .500, or even the playoff so how can I not be a judge on Colangelo this season?!

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                          • #28
                            Hotshot wrote: View Post
                            and why not?! I mean take a look at the current roster and their record, they are not going to win +40 games, get to .500, or even the playoff so how can I not be a judge on Colangelo this season?!
                            Y'know its absurd...if he can get credit for circumstances that lead him to 06-07 then he can take the blame for his own messes that lead to 10-11....

                            This season is a direct result and culmination of his mistakes the last 2 years and he somehow gets a pass from it ? Ridiculous

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                            • #29
                              Trife76 wrote: View Post
                              Its not a joke son,he had cap space and no expectations coming off a 26 win season and he had draft picks...Any comptent basketball guy could have done what he did that ONE season..proof is what has he done SINCE that fluke and the answer is ZERO.
                              lol @ AP
                              Son he was afforded the oppotunity to take those chances with players because he came in as a "savior" to a team who was terrible the year before..he was afforded that gamble and it paid off...the real test was subsequent years after the one year fluke which didnt work thus showing that first year was nothing more than a fluke....the 2007 playoffs was proof of that...

                              BC wanted to build around Bosh and he stated that many times that was his guy...he was in complete control of personnel and we both know this....Look at how he reacted to Bosh rumors last season and ur going to tell me he does all that if Bosh isnt HIS guy ? lol.....fact is it speaks volumes about his ability to evaluate players that he thinks Bosh was a legit No 1 to begin with...and Bosh is similar to ALOT of players BC likes and has drafted IE Bargnani,Cabarkapa (finesse big men)

                              You want back up ?
                              2 One and dones
                              3 straight years of no playoffs
                              your supposed franchise guy walks for a TPE
                              declining attendance
                              no cap space (due to 3-4 horrid contracts)

                              but but but but he traded Araujo for Humphries lol
                              First off, your son's make you seem weak and immature - like a young peacock showing the feathers for the lady birds. There is nothing wrong with having a disagreement with debate using facts.

                              "He was afforded that gamble and it paid off" - so the guy is successful and you knock him? He fails and you knock him - quite obvious you are not biased at all.

                              First one and done - Garbo gone down. He wasn't a great player but they were never the same after he got injured and who was there to replace him? JOey Graham? Seriously.

                              Second one and done - 6th seed lost to Orlando. That is better than over half the teams in the league that year.

                              Third season - Missed the playoffs and gambled big and it did not pay off with Jermaine O'Neal - I guess even if it did pay off it would have not been good enough anywyas.

                              4th season - Signed the best free agent of the summer in a deal that also brought a number of rotational players for the team. Turk turned out to be more interested in night clubs than the basketball club. They were 5th seed and had 29 wins at All-Star break. They come back and Turk screams "Ball!" at Jack Armstrong, Bosh twists his ankle and breaks his face after said All-Star game where rumours are an alliance was struck. What would your response had been if they traded him at the All-Star break with the team in 5th place? What players would the team have been left with this year? I'm pretty sure overpaid as who would trade away anything worthwhile for an unrestricted free agent who repeatedly said he was looking forward to seeing what he could get in free agency.

                              Supposed franchise guy walks for TPE and two first round draft picks.

                              Declining attendance - http://espn.go.com/nba/attendance Down from last year in an economy slipping back in to recession, with a rebuilding team, but still better than 1/3 of the league - including the only unbeaten team in the league (NOH) and a team that has made the playoffs for multiple consecutive seasons (ATL).

                              No cap space? Check your facts. $20M for next season depending on what happens between now and Februa

                              But but but but... I know, you still hate Colangelo.

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                              • #30
                                The attendance will be in serious decline this year now that everything is settled,you can already see it thru the first few games...Turk was a bad signing anyone you want to cut it....There record at the all star break is corny my dude cuz the season ends in April NOT Feb....for a guy trying to debate FACTS maybe you should brush up on what the facts are...

                                3 straight bad seasons,no Bosh,declining attendance,no cap space to fix it only a worthless TPE and sorry to break it to you but cap space next year is pointless cuz nobody next year is coming here...Chicago Bulls 1999 ?

                                garbo Ap Turk blah blah blah facts SON he hasnt done anything in 3 seasons and made a plethora of bad cap moves...3rd straight year of no playoffs FACT...

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