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Thread: What does "retooling" mean ?

  1. #21
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    Quote Trife76 wrote: View Post
    He basically waited til he had cap room to sign back Nash and Q Rich and had Amare back healthy that year and the truth is he still FAILED cuz he didnt recognize that team despite all its firepower wasnt a championship team cuz they couldnt play defense,it had no anchor in the middle to beat the sperms.....so at the end of the day he is celebrated for putting together an offensive team that won 50 games a few teams but had no pedigree to win anything in the playoffs cuz they werent built to win when it counted...

    FAIL !
    i bet if bc traded for elton brand and gilbert arenas (2 contracts NO ONE WANTS) and gave away 1st round picks... some fans would think (11 year old girl's voice... or multipaul) "hey BC is soooo creative !! he swings for the fences!! he's a great GM !!"

  2. #22
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    Its going to be a rebuild but not because thats what BC intended it to be....he is just doesnt have any get out of jail cards anymore,that he had in the last 2 seasons...its like a poor mans retooling that will look like a rebuild cuz of the record and sloppiness...

  3. #23
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Quote Legalize-It wrote: View Post
    ok but then he's still not rebuilding...

    the man is serious about re-tooling...
    The dude turned over almost the entire roster. What does he need to do before you would call it a rebuild?

    Quote Legalize-It wrote: View Post
    you dont try to sign matt barnes, linus kleiza, and trade for diaw if you are really rebuilding...
    And why not? A rebuild involves tearing down what is built and building something different. That's what Colangelo did. He tore down what existed and rebuilt something new.

    He doesn't want to use the term "rebuild" because that sort of talk leads to lower ticket sales. That's my opinion anyway.
    Last edited by Apollo; Thu Nov 18th, 2010 at 09:23 PM.

  4. #24
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    he'll use the TPE by february, and take on more bad contracts...

    but the team will get close to 35 wins and again get a late lottery pick...

    its like when isiah was so desperate he took on jalen rose's contract...

    BC will do something like that...

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    Quote Legalize-It wrote: View Post
    i bet if bc traded for elton brand and gilbert arenas (2 contracts NO ONE WANTS) and gave away 1st round picks... some fans would think (11 year old girl's voice... or multipaul) "hey BC is soooo creative !! he swings for the fences!! he's a great GM !!"
    Its always been funny to me about the praise he gets for that situation when ultimately he failed terribly and honestly never got the most out of that nucleus that he should have and would have if he built that team properly instead of just trying to make em an offensive dynamo....he had an all star team in 2005 that team talent wise should have won it all..i mean he had a lineup you never stumble into but they never even got to the finals that year or any other year cuz he doesnt understand that defense and having guys that defend the basket win in the playoffs,all he ever did was patchwork teams together and toss pieces in if they could score,then he got suckered into giving bad deals for Boris Diaw and Raja Bell..then realized he lost his opportunity and left...

    YET magically this guy is called a genius and an "architecht" by these dumbass raptor fans....

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    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    The dude turned over almost the entire roster. What does he need to do before you would call it a rebuild?



    And why not? A rebuild involves tearing down what is built and building something different. That's what Colangelo did. He tore down what existed and rebuilt something new.

    He doesn't want to use the term "rebuild" because that sort of talk leads to lower ticket sales. That's my opinion anyway.
    he hasnt torn it down,only pieces of it and then went and put in the same type of losing pieces into the mix that he just got rid of,he been doing that for a few years now in case you havent noticed.....

  7. #27
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    You call it a retooling, I'll call it a rebuild and we'll have to agree to disagree. I think Colangelo's words are pure spin. How many retooling projects do you see go from being competitive in most games to getting their ass handed to them 80% of the time? Sounds more like the results of a rebuild to me...

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    Quote Legalize-It wrote: View Post
    he'll use the TPE by february, and take on more bad contracts...

    but the team will get close to 35 wins and again get a late lottery pick...

    its like when isiah was so desperate he took on jalen rose's contract...

    BC will do something like that...
    And you say this because you have a direct link to the future? I think what you mean to say is that you THINK he will do that. Personally, I've seen nothing in Colangelo's past that would give me an indication he will do that.
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    Quote Tim W. wrote: View Post
    And you say this because you have a direct link to the future? I think what you mean to say is that you THINK he will do that. Personally, I've seen nothing in Colangelo's past that would give me an indication he will do that.
    buddy i can find 10000 posts where you post your opinion and dont say "I THINK"... need some help ? go check out any of your anti-bargs posts and tell me if you have said the words "I think" in any of them...

  10. #30
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    There's lots in his past to indicate that he could take another gamble on a big contract. Marbury, Penny and Jermaine O'Neal are three prime examples.

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    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    The dude turned over almost the entire roster. What does he need to do before you would call it a rebuild?



    And why not? A rebuild involves tearing down what is built and building something different. That's what Colangelo did. He tore down what existed and rebuilt something new.

    He doesn't want to use the term "rebuild" because that sort of talk leads to lower ticket sales. That's my opinion anyway.
    not different... what if he traded all the players for players who were 35 years old... would that be a re-build just cuz its different ?

    no a rebuild requires getting rid of as many big contracts and old players as possible in exchange for draft picks and young players...

    getting rasho, reggie, and antoine wright are not part of a rebuild... thats called patch work, and hoping to slip into the 8th seed.

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    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    You call it a retooling, I'll call it a rebuild and we'll have to agree to disagree. I think Colangelo's words are pure spin. How many retooling projects do you see go from being competitive in most games to getting their ass handed to them 80% of the time? Sounds more like the results of a rebuild to me...
    but who exactly is developing ? the symptoms of a rebuild and just being a horrible team are the same...

    but in the rebuild, you have young players who you hope 2-3 years from now will take the team to the promise land...

    we dont even have a young C or PG that should be using this year to develop...

    is jose part of the rebuild ? wat about jack ? barbosa ? kleiza ? bargs ? amir ? reggie ? DA ? would matt barnes have been part of the rebuild ?

    you really think sonny weems and demar derozan are going to hold it down in 2-3 years?

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    Quote Tim W. wrote: View Post
    And you say this because you have a direct link to the future? I think what you mean to say is that you THINK he will do that. Personally, I've seen nothing in Colangelo's past that would give me an indication he will do that.
    what part of it havnt you seen ? the handing out of bad contracts ?
    the trading away of draft picks ?
    the shitty half ass signings like matt barnes, kapono, hedo, to just patch up the team instead of actually allowing someone to develop ?

    which part have you not seen ?

    the tpe expires... you really think BC is not gona use it ?

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    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    There's lots in his past to indicate that he could take another gamble on a big contract. Marbury, Penny and Jermaine O'Neal are three prime examples.
    exactly... can you say agent 0, ak47, b gordan, baron davis...etc

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    Quote Legalize-It wrote: View Post
    not different... what if he traded all the players for players who were 35 years old... would that be a re-build just cuz its different ?
    Yes, it would be a rebuild.

    Quote Legalize-It wrote: View Post
    no a rebuild requires getting rid of as many big contracts and old players as possible in exchange for draft picks and young players...
    A rebuild requires rebuilding the team. The value of the contracts and the age of the players doesn't mean squat. You're describing the typical rebuild and kicking everything else out of the box.

    If you feel so adamant about these rebuild rules you're describing then tell me the cut off point for age? What age is too old to let a transition be considered a rebuild? Also please let me know what contract value is too high to make a transition be deemed a rebuild?
    Last edited by Apollo; Fri Nov 19th, 2010 at 01:11 AM.

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    if a rebuild just meant getting new players, why are so many people afraid of it ? wouldnt more people be begging for a "rebuild" ?

    its b/c it doesnt just mean getting new players, it means, trying to acquire as many draft picks and young players as possible...and trying to get rid of as many long term contracts and vets as possible...


    then allowing those young players to develop TOGETHER...

    there is no development when you have matt barnes, boris diaw, tyson chandler, and linus kleiza...

    so the point is, if rebuilding just meant making trades, then it woudnt be so scary... but rebuilding is developing young players going through growing pains, in an attempt to have a rose/noah, durant/westbrook, mayo/gay/gasol, combination in the future...
    Last edited by Legalize-It; Thu Nov 18th, 2010 at 10:41 PM.

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    Quote Legalize-It wrote: View Post
    what part of it havnt you seen ? the handing out of bad contracts ?
    the trading away of draft picks ?
    the shitty half ass signings like matt barnes, kapono, hedo, to just patch up the team instead of actually allowing someone to develop ?

    which part have you not seen ?

    the tpe expires... you really think BC is not gona use it ?
    The only player Colangelo has traded away that he drafted was Nathan Jawai. The only draft pick (of any note) that Colangelo has been responsible for trading away (and didn't get back) in the four years he has been in charge of the Raptors was the 2008 first round pick. The Raptors currently have TWO first round draft picks for next June.

    When Bosh was a Raptor, the focus was on trying to win now, which meant signing and trading for veterans. Now that he's gone, the focus is on retooling/rebuilding. That can be seen with the fact that Colangelo insisted on draft picks in return for the sign and trade of Bosh. It can also be seen in the fact that Colangelo didn't use the TPE during the summer, when there are more players available. It can also be seen in the fact that Ed Davis was drafted instead of a player who might make more of an immediate impact, or instead of simply trading the pick away for a veteran player. It can be seen in the fact that 9 of the Raptors on the team are under the age of 27.

    And I have no idea whether Colangelo is going to use the TPE and neither do you. If he does, I hope he does it in order to acquire a draft pick or a young player. In order to acquire a draft pick, he might have to do what Oklahoma City did and take on a veteran with a big contract, like they did with Morris Peterson. Or like Washington did with Kirk Hinrich.
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    Quote Legalize-It wrote: View Post
    if a rebuild just meant getting new players, why are so many people afraid of it ? wouldnt more people be begging for a "rebuild" ?

    its b/c it doesnt just mean getting new players, it means, trying to acquire as many draft picks and young players as possible...and trying to get rid of as many long term contracts and vets as possible...


    then allowing those young players to develop TOGETHER...

    there is no development when you have matt barnes, boris diaw, tyson chandler, and linus kleiza...

    so the point is, if rebuilding just meant making trades, then it woudnt be so scary... but rebuilding is developing young players going through growing pains, in an attempt to have a rose/noah, durant/westbrook, mayo/gay/gasol, combination in the future...
    Developing players like DeMar, Amir, Weems and Davis? And the trade to get Diaw and Chandler was, in part, to clear contract, which is what teams often do when they're rebuilding. Chandler's contract is expiring and Diaw expires the next season. As for Kleiza, the guy is 25 years old and was signed to a reasonable contract. And he plays a position the Raptors were sorely lacking at.
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  19. #39
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    Quote Legalize-It wrote: View Post
    if a rebuild just meant getting new players, why are so many people afraid of it ? wouldnt more people be begging for a "rebuild" ?

    its b/c it doesnt just mean getting new players, it means, trying to acquire as many draft picks and young players as possible...and trying to get rid of as many long term contracts and vets as possible...


    then allowing those young players to develop TOGETHER...

    there is no development when you have matt barnes, boris diaw, tyson chandler, and linus kleiza...

    so the point is, if rebuilding just meant making trades, then it woudnt be so scary... but rebuilding is developing young players going through growing pains, in an attempt to have a rose/noah, durant/westbrook, mayo/gay/gasol, combination in the future...
    The Celtics rebuilt by flipping young talent for star veterans Ray Allen and Kevin Garnett. Everyone called it a rebuild and they had no real focus on developing anybody outside of Rondo and Perkins. I get what you're saying but I don't agree it's as black and white as that. Most rebuilds involve tearing it down, bringing in young prospects and developing them together but not all rebuilds work that way. The Celtics are a prime example.

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    Quote Tim W. wrote: View Post
    The only player Colangelo has traded away that he drafted was Nathan Jawai. The only draft pick (of any note) that Colangelo has been responsible for trading away (and didn't get back) in the four years he has been in charge of the Raptors was the 2008 first round pick. The Raptors currently have TWO first round draft picks for next June.

    When Bosh was a Raptor, the focus was on trying to win now, which meant signing and trading for veterans. Now that he's gone, the focus is on retooling/rebuilding. That can be seen with the fact that Colangelo insisted on draft picks in return for the sign and trade of Bosh. It can also be seen in the fact that Colangelo didn't use the TPE during the summer, when there are more players available. It can also be seen in the fact that Ed Davis was drafted instead of a player who might make more of an immediate impact, or instead of simply trading the pick away for a veteran player. It can be seen in the fact that 9 of the Raptors on the team are under the age of 27.

    And I have no idea whether Colangelo is going to use the TPE and neither do you. If he does, I hope he does it in order to acquire a draft pick or a young player. In order to acquire a draft pick, he might have to do what Oklahoma City did and take on a veteran with a big contract, like they did with Morris Peterson. Or like Washington did with Kirk Hinrich.
    the only reason we got a draft pick back for bosh, IS BECAUSE MIAMI HAD NO ONE ELSE LEFT ON THEIR ROSTER !

    who traded roy hibbert ?

    how did we get david anderson ? he also traded a draft pick for D A... i can go on but its useless talking to you tim...

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