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Thread: The Sports Guy on Bryan Colangelo

  1. #41
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    Beasley is just as much as a volume shooter as Bargnani and connects a better rate (49% vs. 44%). Plus he rebounds better and is better defensively.

    The main point is... Toronto is bereft of talent and as much as you want to knock Beasley, he was a number 2 overall pick and 21. To sit there and say that he can't get it together when we've seen other players get their s--t together when they start off with shady reps (Zach Randolph and Carmelo Anthony to name 2) is just jumping the gun. Klieza is what he is (as Tim W. described, a good role player). Beasley has way more upside. By the time that the Raptors are good, Klieza might not be even with the team. Why not take a chance on a young guy who seems to be a decent kid that just has some issues that a lot of dudes I grew up had and kicked when they grew up? If it doesn't work, oh well, you lose 60 games either way.

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    Quote DirtyMikeSeaver wrote: View Post
    Beasley is just as much as a volume shooter as Bargnani and connects a better rate (49% vs. 44%). Plus he rebounds better and is better defensively.

    The main point is... Toronto is bereft of talent and as much as you want to knock Beasley, he was a number 2 overall pick and 21. To sit there and say that he can't get it together when we've seen other players get their s--t together when they start off with shady reps (Zach Randolph and Carmelo Anthony to name 2) is just jumping the gun. Klieza is what he is (as Tim W. described, a good role player). Beasley has way more upside. By the time that the Raptors are good, Klieza might not be even with the team. Why not take a chance on a young guy who seems to be a decent kid that just has some issues that a lot of dudes I grew up had and kicked when they grew up? If it doesn't work, oh well, you lose 60 games either way.
    but beasley doesnt have that the amazing moral ethics and character that bargs, hedo, TJ Ford, and jason kapono have...

    dont you see bargs fighting for rebounds, hedo giving it his all every game, tj not sulking on the bench, and kapono doing more than just launching trays...

    all those guys are WAY BETTER than this 21 year old...

  3. #43
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    Quote bearvon wrote: View Post
    I have to say that I agree w/ Tim W. on mostly everything in this topic except for his opinion on the lack of success people w/ mental health issues can have.

    There are a ton of people who battle depression, etc...who go on to do great things.

    I think in many cases, and I could see basketball as one of them, their depression may fuel them to become better and more competitive.

    With that being said, sometimes I get upset we didn't take Beasley. But in the long run I think we will be happier with Kleiza.

    And obviously BC has made some mega mega mistakes. But Ill bet a lot of us would agree that this team (without the major additions we are crossing our fingers for) are a much more exciting team to root for than a lot of the previous teams.
    I never said that people with mental issues can't go on to great success, but in the NBA, to be a truly elite player, it takes incredible mental toughness, and I think it would be incredibly hard for a player with a history of depression to get to that level. In the NBA, often the only difference between a good player and a great player is mental.

    And I'm not saying it can't be done, but it would be a HUGE gamble.
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    Quote Deadallus wrote: View Post
    Well Johnson is a volume fouler (is that even a word) who does little else. IF he can manage to not foul every 13 seconds then Simmons may be proven wrong. Until then, I would take a volume scorer who can consistantly stay on the court for 30+ minutes.
    Johnson does much more than foul. FOuling obviously doesn't allow him to play more than 25 minutes, on most nights, but in those 25 minutes Johnson generally proves to be one of the more valuable players on the floor. As a backup big, Amir is fantastic. He doesn't have to play a lot of minutes, but those minutes have to be incredibly productive, which they are.

    Beasley would probably help the team more immediately, but that's the last thing we should worry about. The Raptors are not built to win now, so you take the guy who will help you most in the long run. To me, that's Amir because while neither is a guy who is going to lead your team anywhere, Amir is a much better roll player.
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  5. #45
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    Quote DirtyMikeSeaver wrote: View Post
    Beasley is just as much as a volume shooter as Bargnani and connects a better rate (49% vs. 44%). Plus he rebounds better and is better defensively.

    The main point is... Toronto is bereft of talent and as much as you want to knock Beasley, he was a number 2 overall pick and 21. To sit there and say that he can't get it together when we've seen other players get their s--t together when they start off with shady reps (Zach Randolph and Carmelo Anthony to name 2) is just jumping the gun. Klieza is what he is (as Tim W. described, a good role player). Beasley has way more upside. By the time that the Raptors are good, Klieza might not be even with the team. Why not take a chance on a young guy who seems to be a decent kid that just has some issues that a lot of dudes I grew up had and kicked when they grew up? If it doesn't work, oh well, you lose 60 games either way.
    I'm not saying I would be against having Beasley, I just don't think it's as big a mistake to have let him go that others seem to. I agree that Beasley has more potential, but potential for what? Beasley doesn't seem to possess the skills to become a good roll player, and I don't think he possesses the skills to be a truly good franchise player. His future, it seems to me, is to be the big scorer on teams that never go anywhere, like Zach Randolph, Kevin Martin and Corey Maggette. Put them on better teams, and their inability to do the little things hurts them.
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    Quote heinz57 wrote: View Post
    drugs are extremely easy to come by here.

    and its quite easy for a young man to lose himself in our city's nightlife.

    but im not going to convince you... so no point arguing it.

    you're right, toronto is the salt lake city of the north.
    Bunch of hearsay bullshit....

    An NBA player could get access to clubs,whores,coke in any NBA city,alot of players young and old alot older than Beasley indulge in night life,this isnt an issue affluent to one NBA player...Stop deflecting the facts and obvious..he would be our best player and is balling outta control right now...What IFs dont count in the real world...

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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    Beasly on Minny is like Martin on Sacramento. Scoring a lot on a bad team needs an * next to the number.
    Terrible comparison...

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    Quote Trife76 wrote: View Post
    Terrible comparison...
    Why?
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    Quote Tim W. wrote: View Post
    Why?
    He's played 12 games in Minny,has alot more upside than Kevin Martin as a player...
    Has had more impact so far than Martin had in Sacramento and Houston...

    I saw Beas put up 33 and 7 hit a GW he has that potential in him,Martin does not...Martin is a Mike James,Andrea Bargnani type guy..he doesnt have that in him...he can score as a pure scorer offers nothing else esp being undersized....to say beas doesnt offer more is faulty analyzation...

  10. #50
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    Quote Trife76 wrote: View Post
    He's played 12 games in Minny,has alot more upside than Kevin Martin as a player...
    Has had more impact so far than Martin had in Sacramento and Houston...

    I saw Beas put up 33 and 7 hit a GW he has that potential in him,Martin does not...Martin is a Mike James,Andrea Bargnani type guy..he doesnt have that in him...he can score as a pure scorer offers nothing else esp being undersized....to say beas doesnt offer more is faulty analyzation...
    Next time, maybe say that instead of some trite comment meant to insult the poster and little else.

    As for the comparison, I think it's fair. Martin is great scorer who is one of the best players in the league at getting to the line. Beasley is also a great scorer. Neither do really anything else of note, and both are very poor defenders.

    As for impacts, Minnesota is 4-9. I don't think either one of them makes much of a positive overall impact on their respective teams.
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  11. #51
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    Quote Trife76 wrote: View Post
    You buy into the espn non sense too much...

    Beasley is far better than Andrea...Why would Beasley crumble in a market like TO ?
    This isnt a hot baksetball market yet he would crumble esp on a 20 win team ?

    So you make a kneejerk post to Beas crumbling even tho he is playing great so far AND in the same argument you blindly assume Kleiza will "earn" his contract even tho he's looked terrible so far ?

    Terrible post
    Hilarious...so you LOVE Beasley but bash Bargnani?...essentially the same player. Beasley in a party town and media hotbed would be a wreck waiting to happen and that's not even factoring in the FACT that his motor and mental stability have been highly questionable since his days at Kansas. Are you too dense to realize that EVERY TEAM IN THE LEAGUE passed on this guy for a reason...but of course this is nice convenient gift wrapped scenerio that's two weeks in the making and feeds into our narrow minded agenda. You're also condemning Kleiza after how many games?..and again raising Beasley to stud status after how many games? Half his game have been good (on offense) but half have been terrible (overall).

    Based on most of your mostly kneejerk posts on this site, not sure why I even responded back. I should know better than to argue with an idoit, they bring you down to their moronic level and beat you with experieince.

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    Quote Tim W. wrote: View Post
    If you consider Beasley a franchise player then we completely disagree. TO me, Beasley is nothing more than a guy who can score really well, much like Bargnani (I don't want to get into a Bargnani argument, just trying to show a comparison). Beasley has no above average skills other than scoring. He doesn't play defense, doesn't make his teammates better, doesn't rebound the ball well. The Raptors spent years trying to build around a borderline franchise player who had no above average skills other than scoring and rebounding. And they got nowhere. The real franchise players make their teammates look better. Beasley doesn't do that.

    And as other people have stated, it's not the pot smoking, it's the possible mental health issues. In order to be a true franchise player in the NBA, you need a certain mental toughness. A guy who has battled depression, I'm sorry to say, will struggle just to remain consistent, let alone lead a team to a Championship.
    Tim, I respect allot of the stuff you write on here, but to say you wouldn't take somebody because of mental health issues is pretty damn shallow. How do you know how many guys in the league have mental health issues? Your saying that if you have mental health issues, you can't lead a team to a championship? I'm not trying to be a dick, but thats a pretty bold statement and completely incorrect.

    He was the number 2 pick who has tons of potential, I guess we'll see.

  13. #53
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    Beasley has more natural talent in his pinky finger that Amir has in his whole body but on the flip side Amir has more class in his pinky finger than Beasley has in his whole body. Colangelo has made many horrible mistakes and for the most part has shown mediocre performance at best but passing on Beasley was a good thing because the guy is a meat head. How many rings has Allen Iverson, Stephon Marbury, Vin Baker and Damon Stoudemire won combined? Exactly. Giving Amir a fat contract was dumb though. Warrick is on the same level as Amir and the Suns didn't give him anything close to what Amir got.

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    Why is he a "meat head" ?

    and now he has no class ? lol

    So a guy who smokes a few blunts is not classy enough for what you think an NBA player should be ?

  15. #55
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    As for Beasley, he is a troubled soul who needed help and was fortunate to find it this week. He has checked into a Houston rehabilitation facility and is receiving treatment for stress-related problems that apparently include drug and alcohol issues.
    Source: Fanhouse.com

    Play basketball, get paid millions, live the good life and all you got to do is work hard, abide by the team rules and country laws. Beasley can't do this and so yes, of course he's a meat head. It's really simple. Whatever view we hold towards illegal drugs is irrelevant, it's illegal and these guys are role models. They should distance themselves from that crap as much as possible.

  16. #56
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    Quote Nick wrote: View Post
    Tim, I respect allot of the stuff you write on here, but to say you wouldn't take somebody because of mental health issues is pretty damn shallow. How do you know how many guys in the league have mental health issues? Your saying that if you have mental health issues, you can't lead a team to a championship? I'm not trying to be a dick, but thats a pretty bold statement and completely incorrect.

    He was the number 2 pick who has tons of potential, I guess we'll see.
    I'm not writing someone off because they have mental health issues, not am I belittling someone because of them. I'm also not saying I wouldn't take him because of those mental health issues.

    What I am saying is that I don't think Beasley can become a real franchise player, and his mental health issues is only one of the reasons. If he had none, still don't think he would become a real franchise player because he's really only a scorer. Besides scoring, what else does he do well? Does he make his teammates better? Does he do the little things?

    I've also stated that I wouldn't have a problem being on the team, but I don't think it's a big loss because, while he's a great scorer, I really don't see how he'd fit in on a more talented team that he would be required to do more than just score.

    As for mental healthy issues, I'm sure there are plenty of NBA players that have them, but how many truly elite players have (besides being competitive to a fault)? But there's a difference between a Ron Artest or Dennis Rodman and a Michael Jordan and Kobe Bryant. Both Artest and Rodman have struggled during their career with mental health issues, but they were never franchise players. They had great skills that helped them become excellent role players, but neither of them ever were leading a team.
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    For those that say that it's irrelevant about the city that a player plays - you need players who have self control. Toronto was just labelled "White Vegas" by a Miami columnist - and one of the best stops on the NBA circuit. I've never heard anyone say that about Minnesota and the times I've visited Minneapolis, aside from the mall of America, their downtown core is pretty deserted.

    For those ignorant to say "I'd take a guy who smokes weed anyday..", you know, the NBA DOES have an drug and substance abused policy and does regular drug testings. The NBA is big on image. Heck, the Blazers cleaned house after they were labelled "the jail blazers". Indiana did the same thing with Stephen Jackson and Al Harrington.

    I think Toronto is better off with guys who are visible in the community and solid citizens. I'd take those guys on my team any day of the week.

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    It's very possible that he's destined to be a guy that racks up big stats on .500 or below teams, but for a team like Toronto, it just seems like they just don't want to (for lack of a better term) swing for the fences and want to makes smaller moves for guys that seem to fit the 'roll player' mold and talent (no matter how 'flawed' it might be) doesn't exactly grow on trees, especially a talent like Beasley. As Bill Simmons pointed out in his acticle, more and more NBA players either want to play in warm places or hookup with another superstar, so teams like Toronto (and about 20 others) have to start taking these chances and hope to catch lightning in a bottle. This was a relatively low risk chance to take and considering this was the same GM that gave $53 Million to a dude last year that everyone knew was a little... lazy, it's just dissapointing he wouldn't take a chance on Beasley.

    And as for the 'role model' thing... I'm so over that. I've had the fortune (and sometimes misfortune) of hanging out with athletes in certain social situations and while I find them to be overall good guys, they mostly concern themselves with chasing tail, smoking up and being dicks (or 80% of guys under 25 that went to university). I'm not going to hold them to a higher standard because our society deems them important because they skate fast or jump high. When Jarrett Jack and Jose Calderon go a combined 4 for 23 in a game, I really don't care that they are 'nice guys' or 'live in the community'. If someone like Beasley or whomever produce on the court, I could really care less what they do in their spare time or how much they smoke up. Let's remember, Charles Oakley is considered one of the 'great Raptors' and a guy everyone loved to cheer for, and if you google his name, I'm sure you can find some interesting stories on him.

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    The problem also is ASSUMING that Beasley would be putting up the same stat line in Toronto as he's doing in Minnesota. Some places are better fits than others.

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    Quote MangoKid wrote: View Post
    For those that say that it's irrelevant about the city that a player plays - you need players who have self control. Toronto was just labelled "White Vegas" by a Miami columnist - and one of the best stops on the NBA circuit. I've never heard anyone say that about Minnesota and the times I've visited Minneapolis, aside from the mall of America, their downtown core is pretty deserted.

    For those ignorant to say "I'd take a guy who smokes weed anyday..", you know, the NBA DOES have an drug and substance abused policy and does regular drug testings. The NBA is big on image. Heck, the Blazers cleaned house after they were labelled "the jail blazers". Indiana did the same thing with Stephen Jackson and Al Harrington.

    I think Toronto is better off with guys who are visible in the community and solid citizens. I'd take those guys on my team any day of the week.
    Shaq also came out recently and said Toronto is one of the favorite stops for most players in the league because of the great night life scene.

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