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Thread: In need of a “sixth man” and trading Calderon

  1. #1
    Raptors Republic Rookie panagnos's Avatar
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    Default In need of a “sixth man” and trading Calderon

    Watching the Raptors the past couple of games it seems that they are a better defensive unit and have a better flow both offensively and defensively with a nine man rotation where Belinelli is getting the minority of minutes off the bench when playing along Johnson, Banks, and Weems.
    I am convinced that the Raptors are a better team with the ball out of Calderon’s hands when he plays. During games he tends to dominate the dribble which does not help all other players get in the flow of the game. Both Torkoglu and Bargnani need the ball in their hands to get into the game.
    Jarrett Jack passes the ball to the high post or top of the key as soon as he crosses mid-court which enables the rest of the team to touch the ball and feel more “involved” in the offence earlier in the shot-clock. Both Banks and Jack are much better on-ball defenders than Calderon is or will ever be. Both are willing to sacrifice their body because they are not always concerned about injuries.
    I loved the fact that BC signed him to a long term contract because he felt that he was going to be the Raptor’s PG of the future. Calderon is a great backup point guard that would excel in a team where he backs up another starting PG that is injury prone or is of equal quality. That team in no longer the Raptors. I like the combo of Jack and Banks much better that Calderon and Jack simply because I do not think that they play well together.

    Another topic I would like to discuss is the need for a high scoring “sixth man” off the bench to supplement the rotation of Weems, Banks and Johnson. Right now Belinelli is not it. Is he ever going to be it? Not sure. One of the things discussed in the media when he was acquired from Golden State was the fact that he was not given a chance to prove what he is worth under Don Nelson. He has been given the chance under Triano but has not taken advantage of it. He is intense and plays hard but does not have a consistent scoring punch and his defense is suspect at times. Not sure if he is injured or something else is affecting his play but if the Raptors are going to make any noise in the East they need a better sixth man.

    In order to acquire this type of player you would have to part with someone like Calderon to make it happen. The one thought that stayed in my mind when I start surveying potential trading partners is ability to score on consistent basis and length of contract. The one player that came up who fills this profile was Larry Hughes who is currently warming the NYKs bench……
    I know many of you will say Calderon for Hughes? Are you crazy? Well not really. Here is the thought process behind it:

    Hughes is on his final year of his 13 million contract and if BC were to trade Calderon and Evans for him the financials would work. This would instantly give us cap relief at the end of the year to resign Bosh and bring another quality player for the mid level exception.
    Hughes will be motivated to produce in whatever role he has with the Raptors and keep in mind that he helped the Cavaliers and LeBron during their run to the NBA finals.
    The third and most important factor in all this is even if the Larry Hughes experiment did not work (he is injury prone as well) the current rotation has enough chemistry to finish the year as the #5 team in the East which will probably be around the .500 mark.

    So it’s a low risk move that could result in a strong Raptor finish along with some noise in the Playoffs if the right matchup is there. Colangelo gets rid of a contract or two that could keep him out of this coming summer’s free agency frenzy.

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    I agree with your basic premise, that the team plays a lot better with improved defense at the 1 spot.

    However, your proposed deal wouldn't work for two reasons:

    1) New York would never trade away any of their expiring contracts for longer ones.
    2) Jose is widely seen throughout the league as a bad contract, so seems unlikely that people will give up good contracts (expirings like Hughes) for him.

    Honestly, if it were not for egos, I think using Jose as 6th man would be a great alternative.

    To me, that is the real issue. Would everyone be fine with Jose coming off the bench? If Jose can accept that role and excel in it, I think he provides great value there.
    However, if it causes chemistry problems, then we can either:

    1) Keep him at starter, turning our defense into crap.
    2) Trade him.

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    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Wow, Jose is viewed as having a bad contract throughout the league? I never knew this and I would love if you had a few articles you could direct me to so that I can be filled in on this.

    I also agree that the Knicks are looking to shed contracts, not add more.

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    Hughes has actually been contributing well the last couple of games since he took Robinson's spot on the depth cart.

    I wouldn't have a problem trading Jose but the only teams that would be interested would be teams that have enough athletic defenders to hide him on defense. I could see him ending up like Mike Bibby going to Atlanta for nothing. I don't know if there's a team that fits that criteria.

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    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Calderon is under contract for three more seasons beyond this season. Thought I'd throw that out there...

    There have been teams interested in him in the past. The Nuggets were rumored to be before Billups arrived. The Suns were a hot rumor when talks of Nash being traded were floated around. In the summer there was a rumor about the Spurs looking at Calderon as a potential bench guy. These are some examples off the top of my head just to illustrate that there probably are in fact many teams out there who would be interested. Teams who do not share the frustrations held by the Raptors fans towards Calderon and who's opinions thus would not be skewed in any way due to such frustrations.
    Last edited by Apollo; Mon Dec 21st, 2009 at 07:33 PM.

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    Raptors Republic Rookie panagnos's Avatar
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    Quote Ripp wrote: View Post
    I agree with your basic premise, that the team plays a lot better with improved defense at the 1 spot.

    However, your proposed deal wouldn't work for two reasons:

    1) New York would never trade away any of their expiring contracts for longer ones.
    2) Jose is widely seen throughout the league as a bad contract, so seems unlikely that people will give up good contracts (expirings like Hughes) for him.

    Honestly, if it were not for egos, I think using Jose as 6th man would be a great alternative.

    To me, that is the real issue. Would everyone be fine with Jose coming off the bench? If Jose can accept that role and excel in it, I think he provides great value there.
    However, if it causes chemistry problems, then we can either:

    1) Keep him at starter, turning our defense into crap.
    2) Trade him.
    Ripp,


    Here are five reasons why the the Knicks would go for this trade:



    1. Calderon can run D'Antoni's offence. He is very simalar to Nash
    2. The knicks would have a legitimate starting PG to start along whoever they try to sign this summer. He would be a selling point to any pitch to a free agent (Yes,even Bosh).
    3. It would provide the knicks with the second point guard in their rotation since Robinson has been shut down.
    4. Duhon will also be able to provide minutes in the SG spot as well and play along with Calderon.
    5. The knicks need to make the playoffs this year to convince any free agents that they have a legitimate team.


    The knicks are playing relatively well now due to the favorable schedule. They are an injury and a prolonged road trip away from a string of bad loses that could force Walsh's hand to make the trade.

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    Raptors Republic Rookie panagnos's Avatar
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    Here is what Mr. Chisholm is saying about the emergence of Jack and Banks:

    http://tsn.ca/blogs/tim_chisholm/?id=303208

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    Quote panagnos wrote: View Post
    Ripp,


    Here are five reasons why the the Knicks would go for this trade:



    1. Calderon can run D'Antoni's offence. He is very simalar to Nash
    2. The knicks would have a legitimate starting PG to start along whoever they try to sign this summer. He would be a selling point to any pitch to a free agent (Yes,even Bosh).
    3. It would provide the knicks with the second point guard in their rotation since Robinson has been shut down.
    4. Duhon will also be able to provide minutes in the SG spot as well and play along with Calderon.
    5. The knicks need to make the playoffs this year to convince any free agents that they have a legitimate team.


    The knicks are playing relatively well now due to the favorable schedule. They are an injury and a prolonged road trip away from a string of bad loses that could force Walsh's hand to make the trade.
    Nash in an uptempo point guard who pushes the ball, creates easy points for his teammates (dunks, open threes), a DEADEYE shooter who can take over games whenever he wants. The only way Nash and Calderon are similar is high assist numbers and the fact that they are both sieves on defense. However, even these two similarities are misleading, because:

    1) Nash's assists are higher quality...I think the Suns consistently have like 55%+ team shooting.
    2) Nash might give up a lot defensively, but his offense is so excellent it more than makes up for this. Possibly the only guy in the NBA for whom I can comfortably make this statement.

    At any rate, I disagree with the other assumptions you are making regarding NY and Calderon, but I think the above is probably the most important thing you must realize, that Calderon is in no way comparable to Steve Nash (I think he is more Steve Blake or Beno Udrih.)

    I think the best way to handle this situation is handle it the way Houston did with Rafer Alston. He will have a lot more value around the trade deadline to a contender. Keep him as a nominal starter until then.

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    Raptors Republic Rookie Creebrave's Avatar
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    Quote panagnos wrote: View Post
    Ripp,


    Here are five reasons why the the Knicks would go for this trade:



    1. Calderon can run D'Antoni's offence. He is very simalar to Nash
    2. The knicks would have a legitimate starting PG to start along whoever they try to sign this summer. He would be a selling point to any pitch to a free agent (Yes,even Bosh).
    3. It would provide the knicks with the second point guard in their rotation since Robinson has been shut down.
    4. Duhon will also be able to provide minutes in the SG spot as well and play along with Calderon.
    5. The knicks need to make the playoffs this year to convince any free agents that they have a legitimate team.


    The knicks are playing relatively well now due to the favorable schedule. They are an injury and a prolonged road trip away from a string of bad loses that could force Walsh's hand to make the trade.
    This is completely bunk as the Knicks have stated many times over that they have no interest in taking any contracts past this year... this was the whole premise of not signing David Lee or Robinson past the 2009/2010 season. They want as much cap space as available to make a pitch to LBJ and others. Taking on Calderon's contract for Hughes would in effect reduce the amount of money they have to throw at the big free agaents by 5mil or so... not gonna happen at all...

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    Quote panagnos wrote: View Post
    Here is what Mr. Chisholm is saying about the emergence of Jack and Banks:

    http://tsn.ca/blogs/tim_chisholm/?id=303208

    That was a great read from Tim. If Jose can be moved then I'm all for it, I just do see any suitors or takers right now.

  11. #11
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    panagnos, I dont know why you feel that Calderon not merely passing the ball at the beginning of the set is a sign of ball hogging. The reason point guards are paid on the offensive end is for their playmaking abilities. Nash regularly holds the ball for long periods of the shot clock and its only after his penetration/pnr that the offense is initiated and the offense swings the ball. I think people forget that sometimes.

    Also, NY would not make that trade because they would not have enough space to sign a max free agent, defeating your reasoning to get Calderon in the first place.
    Last edited by dino gunners; Tue Dec 22nd, 2009 at 05:48 PM. Reason: wrong name

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