BC still has to make one more trade: Kleiza or Barbosa

[Ruuuuu]

You're basically saying 8 players, which would be a minimum sized rotation, but it also means if there was any injuries, the team would be screwed. Ideally, you want a backup at every single position, and then maybe a 3rd PG and 3rd C.

And with the Raptors, the idea is to have as many assets as possible, which means a lot of depth. The Raptors don't have anyone that should probably average much more than 30 mpg, so there's plenty of minutes available for a 9 or 10 man rotation.

An 8 man rotation is really what you need for everyone to be in rhythm.

Injuries are a blow of course but thats where the 9th and 10 men come in. For example if your wings are DD\weems\kleiza, and someone gets hurt, thats when Wright starts to get more minutes. The thing is, if you settle on DD\weems\barbosa as wings, I dont think Kleiza would be happy being the odd man out in the rotation waiting for someone to get hurt to get playing time. That is not what he signed up for.

Another way to look at it is if you have DD\weems getting 30-35 mins per night, that leaves approx 20 mins per game in backup minutes. Ideally that would be filled by ONE good player who could play SG/SF. If you try to fill that with 2 players to play 10 mins per night, it does not work b/c neither can get going.

[Ruuuuu]

Out of Kleiza and Barbosa, I would say Barbosa.

It will be interesting to see how Bayless pans out. BC obviously has a template for building a team - a team without Bosh that is. Bayless could be the next Barbosa in Colangelo's point of view. IT would appear so as both are neither PG or SG and both are blazing fast.

I think a team looking for a chance to win would bring in Barbosa. His contract is short term - especially if he opted out.

The only issue with trading Barbosa now is his wrist.

I like Barbosa though and would like to see him stay but if they could get a good young player in return or pick up some more 1st round draft picks - see you Barbosa! If he opted out, and they really wanted him, they could look to sign him again in the offseason.

Kleiza is a relatively cheap, an above average player off the bench who can play 3 or 4, post up, shoot the 3 and is only 25.

There's no minutes for kleiza at the 4 though with AJ\Evans\and soon Davis. Plus the combination of Bargs + one of those offensive board crashers is actually working pretty well. I think he is best used as a 3, and when he is on whichever of DD\weems at the 2.

[mcHAPPY]

There's no minutes for kleiza at the 4 though with AJ\Evans\and soon Davis. Plus the combination of Bargs + one of those offensive board crashers is actually working pretty well. I think he is best used as a 3, and when he is on whichever of DD\weems at the 2.

You are correct. I do not see Evans here long term though - by long term I mean past this season.

[MangoKid]

There's no minutes for kleiza at the 4 though with AJ\Evans\and soon Davis. Plus the combination of Bargs + one of those offensive board crashers is actually working pretty well. I think he is best used as a 3, and when he is on whichever of DD\weems at the 2.

But it shouldn't mean that Colangelo should be actively seeking to deal Kleiza. He's got a fantastic contract and locked in for another 3 seasons. Why deal him? He's a nice change of pace from Weems. He's a bruiser - and that was evident Friday night against the Rockets. He was abusing Budinger in the paint. He's fantastic when the Raps go small. Barbosa should go first - contract is about up and it would be nice to pick up an asset for a guy who probably won't be back next season.

[ceez]

i love kleiza coming off the bench, and his contract is actually pretty great. trading him would be a mistake unless you were getting something incredible in return, which won't happen.

[mcHAPPY]

But it shouldn't mean that Colangelo should be actively seeking to deal Kleiza. He's got a fantastic contract and locked in for another 3 seasons. Why deal him? He's a nice change of pace from Weems. He's a bruiser - and that was evident Friday night against the Rockets. He was abusing Budinger in the paint. He's fantastic when the Raps go small. Barbosa should go first - contract is about up and it would be nice to pick up an asset for a guy who probably won't be back next season.

And a draft pick. I'm all about acquiring draft picks.

[Tim W.]

An 8 man rotation is really what you need for everyone to be in rhythm.

Injuries are a blow of course but thats where the 9th and 10 men come in. For example if your wings are DD\weems\kleiza, and someone gets hurt, thats when Wright starts to get more minutes. The thing is, if you settle on DD\weems\barbosa as wings, I dont think Kleiza would be happy being the odd man out in the rotation waiting for someone to get hurt to get playing time. That is not what he signed up for.

Another way to look at it is if you have DD\weems getting 30-35 mins per night, that leaves approx 20 mins per game in backup minutes. Ideally that would be filled by ONE good player who could play SG/SF. If you try to fill that with 2 players to play 10 mins per night, it does not work b/c neither can get going.

On a contender, an 8 man rotation is best. The Raptors aren't a contender. They need to develop as many of their assets as possible. And because no player is consistent enough that would demand them playing big minutes, I'd like to see 10 guys playing somewhere between 20 and 30 minutes per game.

[Legalize-It]

Out of Kleiza and Barbosa, I would say Barbosa.

It will be interesting to see how Bayless pans out. BC obviously has a template for building a team - a team without Bosh that is. Bayless could be the next Barbosa in Colangelo's point of view. IT would appear so as both are neither PG or SG and both are blazing fast.

I think a team looking for a chance to win would bring in Barbosa. His contract is short term - especially if he opted out.

The only issue with trading Barbosa now is his wrist.

I like Barbosa though and would like to see him stay but if they could get a good young player in return or pick up some more 1st round draft picks - see you Barbosa! If he opted out, and they really wanted him, they could look to sign him again in the offseason.

Kleiza is a relatively cheap, an above average player off the bench who can play 3 or 4, post up, shoot the 3 and is only 25.

classic delusional raptor fan right here...

who the f is gona trade a 1st round pick for barbosa ??

[MangoKid]

classic delusional raptor fan right here...

who the f is gona trade a 1st round pick for barbosa ??

Barbosa would be a pretty decent addition to a contender. Salaries of course would have to match up. Why wouldn't someone trade a 1st rounder for him? It's not like you're talking about a lotto pick. More likely, it's a pick in the 20's.

[LBF]

Sounds like BC is committed to rebuilding around the YGZ which I think is good news for the Raps. I think this must have come about recently though (its possible that even the ORL/MIA games sealed it), because his actions over the summer were not really consistent with that (eg. kleiza, DA, Dampier).

But anyway as it stands now, there is simply a logjam at the wings, and he has to make another trade:

DD/Weems/Kleiza/Barbosa....and thats assuming Peja and Wright are glued to the bench, and Bayless is strictly a PG.

I think logically, one of Kleiza or Barbosa will be traded next. Who do you think it is going to be?

You can make a case for either. Barbosa ability to create has been more valuable so far and with Jack gone gives Raps some backup PG. But now there is redundancy with Bayless. Kleiza gives Raps a bigger SF and a more of a down low scoring threat. Plus you have to consider what other teams will be looking for. I dont think BC will be attached to either, whichever one is the better trade.

If I had to guess on a hunch: I'll guess Barbosa will be the one to go. Just because I think from his years in PHX, a lot of the top contenders know what he can do and will be more interest in him.

bryan is going to make as many trades as he sees fit, i'm tired of people trying to stay one stpe ahead of him, and say he needs to do this one thing, or these two things.

he's not commited to building around anything, nobody is untouchable, he's going to try to go with what works and he's finding out what works on the job so to speak.

i call it the pay as you go plan.

[Legalize-It]

Barbosa would be a pretty decent addition to a contender. Salaries of course would have to match up. Why wouldn't someone trade a 1st rounder for him? It's not like you're talking about a lotto pick. More likely, it's a pick in the 20's.

HE NEEDS SURGERY !! and makes 7.5 million next year... umm what more do you need to believe there isnt a team in hell trading any type of draft pick for him ?

[MangoKid]

He played well in limited minutes yesterday and if he can sustain that, then I stand by my comments that some team at the deadline might take a gamble on him.

[Ruuuuu]

On a contender, an 8 man rotation is best. The Raptors aren't a contender. They need to develop as many of their assets as possible. And because no player is consistent enough that would demand them playing big minutes, I'd like to see 10 guys playing somewhere between 20 and 30 minutes per game.

Well I guess its different philiophies on how you want to run a team. Its not like you literally CANT have a 9/10 man rotation, but I would not do it, most teams do not do it, and I think you can see the results are pretty choppy when the Raps try it.

We'll see how BC and Triano want to run things. My prediction is that they have only recently committed to the full rebuild so either kleiza or barbosa will be gone soon because its too many bodies.

The other thing is that many players would not want to be in that situation. If you read some of the reports about even Bayless, I dont think he would be happy as a 10th man in any rotation (let alone the Raps). Kleiza did not like a reduced role even on a contending team like Denver. Barbosa seems a little more mellow (maybe b/c he's older), but if he still has some competitive juices, he would not want to be the 10th man on a rebuilding Raps squad when he fits as a 6th man on just about any title contender.

[Ruuuuu]

bryan is going to make as many trades as he sees fit, i'm tired of people trying to stay one stpe ahead of him, and say he needs to do this one thing, or these two things.

he's not commited to building around anything, nobody is untouchable, he's going to try to go with what works and he's finding out what works on the job so to speak.

i call it the pay as you go plan.

calm down buddy, no is saying they're a fortune teller, but its fun speculating on what is going to happen next.

If you're tired of it no one made you read the thread.

[Ruuuuu]

But it shouldn't mean that Colangelo should be actively seeking to deal Kleiza. He's got a fantastic contract and locked in for another 3 seasons. Why deal him? He's a nice change of pace from Weems. He's a bruiser - and that was evident Friday night against the Rockets. He was abusing Budinger in the paint. He's fantastic when the Raps go small. Barbosa should go first - contract is about up and it would be nice to pick up an asset for a guy who probably won't be back next season.

I agree kleiza gives somethings at SF they dont have with either DD or weems. But my reasoning is that if the Raps are going to be building around them and want them to be playing central roles (which it sounded like from BC interviews) then there's not enough minutes to go around if both kleiza and barbosa are on the team (even if you are already benching/trading Peja). If its a 10 man rotation, you can imagine those guys getting 10-12 minutes a night, which I dont think is the situation they want. So I expect one of those two to be moved soon.